17to85

I would rather be able to challenge holding than PI to be honest. Refs miss that more than they miss PI.

The big issue was that the Bombers failed to generate any pressure on Ray. I don't care who he has to throw the ball to if you give that guy time he'll find someone. That's where the blatant holding was infuriating. When they did get a push it was just OK for the Argos OL to hold them up. Really wish Etchevary had sent some more blitzes. If you give Ray time he'll shred you no matter how many guys you drop back, might as well make him take a beating to get passes away.

That's what I've been saying. Our running game (or lack thereof) has absolutely nothing to do with Grigsby. Cotton does no better. It's the entire scheme, and the personal of the Oline (who get manhandled regularly at the LOS) that is our Achilles heel, not the running back. We could have better, yes. But better won't solve the problem. he had one ******* rushing attempt! Give him a chance to actually carry the ball and get into a groove before we make any kind of judgement calls. You can keep absolving Grigsby of any blame but that's just not even bothering to look at the game objectively, that's just grasping at the low hanging fruit blaming the offensive line., Grigsby is part of the problem because of the way he runs.

In the early going, the refs killed us and the Bombers capitalized. The refs made a call or two in our favour later on. You couldn't on the whole think that it went mostly against the Bombers though, could you? Shocking. The thing that pissed me off early was how blatant the Argos holding was. Seemed like there was really bad and obvious holding on every play. I know the CFL lets a lot of holding go but it was ridiculous. Especially with a lot of the ticky tack calls that were going on all over the field. I thought the refs were just terrible until that over turned PI challenged, then I started to change my mind, gotta help the poor useless eastern teams out any way we can.

My problem with it was that the CFL has talked recently about closing the floodgates a bit, they said they were only going to over turn the really obvious and blatant stuff... which I assume is why O'Shea didn't bother challenging the one on Kelly, but then they go and over turn that one.... good lord throw the flag on any deep ball and based on that play there's probably PI in there somewhere.

There is a hell of a lot of middle ground between prime Charles Roberts and Nic Grigsby, that's the real take away here. Honestly what does Grigsby do that stands out? It's not acceleration, it's not changing directions quickly or without losing speed, it's not instinctively finding openings, it's not fighting through contact... so what's he got? Decent set of mitts catching from the backfield? Big deal any number of RBs can do that.

That's where a guy like Charles Roberts just thrived. He knew instinctively where to go to find space and he had the quickness to change direction and throw would be tacklers off that way. Grigsby just does none of that. Oh sure give him space he can be fine, but I'd rather look for a runningback who can make something out of nothing because we're not getting a new offensive line any time soon.

There have been a lot of really low scoring games without tds being scored by teams so a lot of people got tripped up by that.

There have been too many terrible owners in the CFL to call Wettenhall the worst. Quite frankly his willingness to lose money on the Als alone puts him ahead of a bunch of guys. That being said he's clearly lost his mind these last few years.

No that's just some bullshit argument that people like to bring up. Grigsby has shown a great ability to run into tacklers and go down, hell the moment I was done with him as a runningback was on a play where he was down field running with the ball, had a blocker in front of him taking a defender out of the picture.... and he ran right into the back of his blocker. In my mind he doesn't have good enough instincts to be an effective runner unless the hole is big enough to drive a truck through. He's too slow to change direction, his acceleration isn't good enough and he lacks the natural ability to find space. That has nothing to do with the OL. I think Cotton was better in preseason and want to see him. It's less about being down on Grigsby as being higher on the other guy.

but most of the backs we've used since Roberts have been those all or nothing types... Reid, Ford, Grigsby... Simpson was different and no one really complained about his ability, just his constant injuries. Smith was a bigger bruising back no one complained about that. So it's just the types of guys they've used that people have complained of.

I'll say it again, why oh why did we have to move to the west?

Unless of course you send pressure at him, then he's got nothing. If he has time then yeah Brink can actually play some qb but it's just so easy to defend against him. Blitz the crap out of him and he'll fail. I haven't really paid much attention to the Als this year? Is their OL any good? it doesn't really matter, just send more than they can block. Brink with that big wind up can't handle the heat.

Unless of course you send pressure at him, then he's got nothing. If he has time then yeah Brink can actually play some qb but it's just so easy to defend against him. Blitz the crap out of him and he'll fail.

Is this where I point out that you're listed as eliminated so who you pick doesn't matter? Anyway I'll make my choice Adarius Bowman and hope to god it's not my last one.

Yeah yeah yeah, you deserve it after all the bullshit wins you picked up early on.

little bit early to say Dinwiddie hasn't had success coaching isn't it? Not even half a year into his first gig, never mind that he was only brought in to be a QB coach initially anyway. The best players don't always wind up being the best coaches. Scott Milanovich wasn't anything exciting at qb and he seems to be doing fine coaching, Whereas Matt Dunigan was a great qb and not much of a coach. As far as being coaches go neither one of them has proven anything and how good a player was has very little to do with how good a coach they wind up being.

Suber was hurt in preseason no? So that's a move because of injury, most moves have been made because of injury. Other than that no one has really come off the roster. It is far too premature to go about making claims like "if you don't perform MOS doesn't let you play" If anything he is showing remarkable patience with players. Suber been healthy for awhile and there was rumblings he should dress last game. MOS has stated since he got here it all about win-losses. You telling me he will put up with under-performing players because? I am saying that the only moves that he has made so far have been due to injuries really. I know what happened with Suber, he got hurt and someone else went in and did the job well so he can't get back into the lineup. Same kind of thing happened with Grigsby, Cotton got hurt in preseason and Grigsby had a good start to the year so he didn't come out, but I haven't seen anything to suggest at this point that O'Shea is going by what you initially stated. I am telling you Grigsby is underperforming and we haven't seen a change made...

Suber was hurt in preseason no? So that's a move because of injury, most moves have been made because of injury. Other than that no one has really come off the roster. It is far too premature to go about making claims like "if you don't perform MOS doesn't let you play" If anything he is showing remarkable patience with players.

and if they do start him you will see what I mean. We're not getting a brand new offensive line in here any time soon, but we have the chance to play a runningback who was better in preseason and at this point you take the improvements where you can get them.

and the younger generation is wrong.

He had one carry in the game against SK, and 4 against Ham. That's hardly enough to judge him on how well he runs the ball. You totally miss what I said, didn't you. When he got the ball, the defenders were in the backfield with him - hence why he only has the carries he has. My point is this my friend - you could bring any RB in the world and plop them in the Bomber backfield - if he gets the ball and is looking into the whites of the eyes of the defender - he ain't going anywhere. Until our Oline gets stronger, and we can disguise our runs better, Cotton, Grigsby, or me. Doesn't matter. Charles Roberts regularly left guys grasping for air in the backfield. Now I'm not expecting these guys on the team now to be as good as Charles Roberts, but it clearly goes to show that your "no running back would make a difference" argument is flawed. I expect a back to be able to make people miss at least sometimes, Grigsby has done it only a handful of times and seems to have a remarkable ability to run into tacklers. He's not making enough people miss and that's a problem. Cotton I think can make more people miss and can generate more yards as a result. He might get stuff for a loss too, but I bet he won't get stuffed for a loss as often.,

I"ll give you that - and I think Cotton, from what little i've seen of him, has a bit of the edge there. But I've seen Grigsby make people miss in the open field though, he even got a nice TD run doing a little stutter step. Amazing how fans remember only bad things. Bottom line is - we had no oline last year, and this year it has improved but not a lot. We still need more. Here's the deal a lot of you guys are missing, a running back, even an amateur one, never loses yards, or at least very rarely loses yards. When a running back carries the ball 15 times and has 25 yard, and 17 of those came on one run, that is NOT the running back, that is the OLINE (and one could argue play calling and running schemes used). That's why I'm snickering at the 'put in Cotton' folks. It doesn't matter, and personally I like Cotton, I think he's better and can make people miss, but unless you are getting a beer every time the bombers are running, and don't have a PVR to replay it, then even a blind man can see why Grigsby isn't getting any traction. He can't, he's gotta duck and run for his life as soon as the ball is handed to him. Until we get holes where our RB's can actually run through, I can't judge them. no you're wrong. There were plenty of times when he lost yards because he ran sideways or hesitated in the backfield and let guys get to him there. I'm not trying to absolve the o-line here, but Grigsby is making them look worse than they are by not simply slamming the ball up in there.

Do they really? I want you to actually justify that comment because I see a team that lost because they turned the ball over when they got it and that isn't affected by the Riders picking up meaningless rushing yards (and yes they were meaningless because they didn't result in a hell of a lot of points) Cuz you asked so nicely.... Rider's offense was almost non-existent before they started running Messam. Continue with that and our offense gets more chances with the ball, their defense gets tired due to lopsided TOP, they lose the field position battle and the game. The yards weren't meaningless, although your posts are getting more and more so. As I thought, you're going with the "just because" reasoning. The Bombers got the ball back plenty of times with plenty of time left and they utterly failed to move the ball. Now in your world apparently more chances would have made it better? I dunno about that, we've seen this offense bog down before against certain defenses and it doesn't matter how many times they get the ball back. Willy wasn't feeling it clearly, he was throwing dangerous passes, they couldn't get the run game going... More opportunities with the ball I don't think would have helped, and to be quite honest, I think without Messam the Riders were a more dangerous team because they would have actually tried passing the ball rather than settling into the conservative 6 yards a carry game they did and they might have broken a big play or two and scored more points. I'll give up 100+ yards in a half if the qb barely cracks 100 passing.

He's the starting runningback with an offensive coordinator that likes to use runningbacks in the passing game.... Moore has missed games to injury, Watson has missed games to injury, Kelly has missed games to inury... is it any wonder the RB on the team has a higher percentage of plays going to him? He's been basically the only constant on the offense.