17to85

Messam wasn't the reason they lost, and it's not even close. You turn the ball over that much and give up touchdowns outright on a couple of those turnovers what do you think is going to happen? The Riders offence, even with Messam getting over 100 yards did **** all for scoring. Let em run and kick a field goal if it means you hold their qb to low totals. They had plenty of chances with the ball at the end of the game, they turned it over too much plain and simple. Willy forced a couple passes into places he shouldn't and they were picked that's game.

It's a tradition that is a result of televising sports in black and white.... dark vs. light so viewers can tell the home team from the visitors. Also why Referees wear stripes, so people could tell them apart on black and white screens. It stuck even though there's no need for it now because people like traditions.

No I'm not under rating him at all, I like him, he's a good bottom 6 centre, but there's lots of teams out there that have good bottom 6 centres like that. As for Horcoff, you could try moving him up the lineup but it won't look pretty. He's lost his speed and lost whatever finishing ability he once had. I was a fan of his at one point but it was just all kinds of sad watching him trying to contribute to the Oilers. He's a bottom line guy at this point who can't handle bigger responsibilities anymore. Dallas I think is being over rated a bit just because of the way their top 6 forwards look. There's a hell of a lot of offensive talent there, but I'm not sure the balance is all that great in that group. Neither of those centres are exactly defensive stalwarts and when teams like LA and Chicago and Boston are the teams having the most success and their top 6 centres have that great 2 way game I don't know that Dallas compares. Hell I think I like Chicagos centre depth more since they added Brad Richards, Boston still has good centre depth, the Pens probably do have the best with Crosby and Malkin at 1 and 2 then follow it up with Sutter at 3...

Wild or nothing. Shameless Wild fanboi here.

Aren't you supposed to be napping?

So we're drinking g at a curling bonspiel back when this was still on the air. My gf asks 17to85s roommate to hold her purse for a second. So he pulls this gag. Well, shall hasn't seen the commercial, and when she's drinking, she's not afraid to haul off on someone. She doesn't get the gag and winds up and absolutely hammers the poor bastard. She's a wee blonde but she gave him a good shot to the gut. Never again has poor Joe tried the plastic bag trick... "At least I didn't hit anyone"

He hasn't done much... one interception when Glenn tossed it right at him, couple borderline head shots but other than that I don't notice him too much.

I can finally rejoin the chat...looking forward to tipping a few and enjoying what should be a really good football game. The debate now: Whisky from the 66 we brought back from Grand Forks, or one of the Winnipeg micro-brews we brought back from the MLCC. Half Pints, Farmery and Fort Garry all stocked up at the house...hmmm...You couldn't make a bad choice if you tried. you don't know that, it could be crown. The **** is wrong with crown? it's an awful whiskey how do you figure? I'm not going to claim it's the only whiskey or the best whiskey, but awful is pretty strong words. It's sweet but not smooth. Not a fan. see I kind of like my rye to burn a little bit so not being smooth I don't see as a real negative.

Oh please like Bomber fans need instructions on how to handle losing streaks. What a waste of time this thread is.

LOL not even. Eakin is a nice bottom 6 centre but lots of teams have those guys, Horcoff though is an old guy who is fading really really fast. I mean he was playing like a legit top line centre for a couple years in Edmonton, but that's only a few years shy of being a decade ago, he's not anywhere close to the same player.

oh I thought we were playing the Riders....

It's more about what Willy would choose than what the Bombers said, but of course, you've made your mind up and I'm not going to change it. yeah except my mind was made up by logical reasoning and facts, yours by the voices in your head. Your 'logical reasoning and facts' amount to 'The Bombers said they wanted him so they'd surely get him'. which is more logic than "no way they'd get him because reasons"

I can finally rejoin the chat...looking forward to tipping a few and enjoying what should be a really good football game. The debate now: Whisky from the 66 we brought back from Grand Forks, or one of the Winnipeg micro-brews we brought back from the MLCC. Half Pints, Farmery and Fort Garry all stocked up at the house...hmmm... You couldn't make a bad choice if you tried. you don't know that, it could be crown. The **** is wrong with crown? it's an awful whiskey how do you figure? I'm not going to claim it's the only whiskey or the best whiskey, but awful is pretty strong words.

my concern is that you left a pretty obvious drive by slagging of people who are religious... it's just inflammatory. Didn't Jesus teach to turn the other cheek? and basic human decency says don't be a ****.

I can finally rejoin the chat...looking forward to tipping a few and enjoying what should be a really good football game. The debate now: Whisky from the 66 we brought back from Grand Forks, or one of the Winnipeg micro-brews we brought back from the MLCC. Half Pints, Farmery and Fort Garry all stocked up at the house...hmmm... You couldn't make a bad choice if you tried. you don't know that, it could be crown. The **** is wrong with crown?

my concern is that you left a pretty obvious drive by slagging of people who are religious... it's just inflammatory.

Regarding the first bolded sentence, I would say that it is sad that people are stupid enough to make the connection between having the traditional Christian view of homosexuality and anti-gay hatred. I'm curious to know what the traditional christian view of homosexuality is Well... The Bible refers to sexual practices that may be called "homosexual" in today's world, but the original language texts of the Bible do not refer explicitly to homosexuality as a sexual orientation. For example, passages in the Old Testament book Leviticus prohibit "lying with mankind as with womankind" and the story of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19) has been interpreted by some as condemning homosexual practice. My argument is the Bible was written by man X amount of years ago in a very, very, very different world. The idea that the Bible is the word of God is simply not true. Its the word of man interpreting what he believes is the word of God with all the personal and political influences of the time. Any religious person who holds the Bible up as the final word on anything is pretty damn naive. The only thing that christians really need to worry about taking from the bible is everything that Jesus went around saying, you know all that stuff about not judging people and being tolerant of everyone. Seems like a lot of Christians forget that and use their religion as an excuse to hate people different from themselves. It's not a religious problem though, if they didn't have religion they'd find some other reason to be hateful and ignorant.

It's more about what Willy would choose than what the Bombers said, but of course, you've made your mind up and I'm not going to change it. yeah except my mind was made up by logical reasoning and facts, yours by the voices in your head.

No the pissing and moaning as you call it is trying to send a message that we as fans want better. I hate the current jerseys we have, so much so that I won't buy one, my hope is that enough people follow suit but doesn't appear that is happening. yeah but who are you sending that message too? a bunch of fans on a message board? what's that accomplish, like i said, i love the royal blue jerseys myself, even own one.. it's a kenny ploen one... but the reason it doesn't appear to be happening is probably cuz, well, in the big picture, the 100 people or so who post on this site, unfortunately we don't really matter, if we all picked up a phone though or emailed them or did something other than complain on a fan forum, maybe something would get done. Oh I have no doubts at all that people with the team are aware of what gets said online.

You can rely on a running back to win you some games, but if you can't pass the ball you won't win. Trying to be a running team doesn't work, trying to be a passing team that can't run doesn't work either, you need to be balanced.

you should have planned your vacation better.

can't go anywhere in the world these days without running into bandwagon Rider fans...and if I don't notice them they notice my Bomber hat and have to make an obnoxious comment...in February when I was in Maui I was told almost every day by some ding-dong that Willy sucked and they were glad he was gone...ha ha ha ...Try living out here. Most years, it's quite sickening. As you can imagine, this year has been better. Having said that, yesterday I took heat in the local WalMart for my new Jets hat, hoodie and Bombers tee.....Rider fans, Stamps fans....a horrible combo out here. what the **** to flames fans have to say about the Jets? ******* Flames over achieved in a big way and managed to draft 4th overall... And that was the highlight of the Flames' year. They're going to suck for at least a couple of years- their drafting has been pathetic and their prospects are all mediocre. Well Benett and Monahan are solid prospects, not sure either one has super high end potential but they're solid. They had better hope that Giordano keeps playing like one of the better defensemen in the league though or they will be absolutely ******.

The Bombers though have said they valued Willy higher in the offseason though, I see no reason not to believe them. That's the one aspect you are not taking into account here. It's also why they likely didn't go all in on Collaros initially. But you've of course made up your mind, no amount of logic will change it.

No the pissing and moaning as you call it is trying to send a message that we as fans want better. I hate the current jerseys we have, so much so that I won't buy one, my hope is that enough people follow suit but doesn't appear that is happening.

There was smoke about Collaros and Burris to Winnipeg too, bottom line it comes down to who pays the most with FAs.