I was a little surprised to not hear MOS take the blame for his team's poor play last night. He put the blame squarely on the players and when pressed about what he was going to do stated "coach them up". But isn't that what he has been doing? How is that going to change anything, especially now that he has turned on his players? This thing is going to get really ugly. If nothing is done and we just continue to roll along like this, the fans are going to abandon this organization like never before. 

MOS has clearly lost this team. It is floating adrift amongst the ice burgs and the captain has no clue how to navigate the Bomber ship through these waters. If we're the Titanic, Calgary was the ice burg and we ran into it last night. We're listing and taking on water and I'm sure personnel, including O'Shea and Walters, are wondering how to get to the life boats.

There's no saving this vessel. Miller needs to quit bailing and let her go down. He never should have entrusted her to two rookies and now it's over. Time to salvage what you can and start over. Hopefully Miller has learned he needs to hire an experienced crew that know how to navigate the CFL waters. The question now is whether the good people of Winnipeg will continue to trust him with one of their most valued possessions.

53 minutes ago, J5V said:

I was a little surprised to not hear MOS take the blame for his team's poor play last night. He put the blame squarely on the players and when pressed about what he was going to do stated "coach them up". But isn't that what he has been doing? How is that going to change anything, especially now that he has turned on his players? This thing is going to get really ugly. If nothing is done and we just continue to roll along like this, the fans are going to abandon this organization like never before. 

MOS has clearly lost this team. It is floating adrift amongst the ice burgs and the captain has no clue how to navigate the Bomber ship through these waters. If we're the Titanic, Calgary was the ice burg and we ran into it last night. We're listing and taking on water and I'm sure personnel, including O'Shea and Walters, are wondering how to get to the life boats.

There's no saving this vessel. Miller needs to quit bailing and let her go down. He never should have entrusted her to two rookies and now it's over. Time to salvage what you can and start over. Hopefully Miller has learned he needs to hire an experienced crew that know how to navigate the CFL waters. The question now is whether the good people of Winnipeg will continue to trust him with one of their most valued possessions.

 

I agree with you in that it is going to get very ugly. In any other North American market, I would also agree that the fans would abandon the organization like never before, but this is Winnipeg, and in that market the sports fans don't mind the losing as that is all they are used to. You could say that losing is in the spirit and soul of that City. Likely the BOD, Miller, Walters, and MIke will be granted a gigantic "do-over" or mulligan for the last 4 years and life will go on in Bomber world with unicorns and rainbows for all...

I think the fan base and the politics in Winnipeg are a big part of the problem. Not convinced anymore that there is ever going to be a viable solution for this team even if they did blow it up and start all over with a new crew of misfits and cronies appointed by the Board.

 

The two rookies entrusted to run this team were actually three rookies. Not sure Miller gets a free pass given he was at the top of the food chain that built this crumbling pyramid. 

I have been questioning O'Shea's leadership and judgement for some time and have been thinking that Walters deserves another kick at the can, but he has let O'Shea go way too long without tangible improvement. It may be time to clean house. We need to know if the players are as bad as they look to be or if the coaching is the problem.

I have been questioning O'Shea's leadership and judgement for some time and have been thinking that Walters deserves another kick at the can, but he has let O'Shea go way too long without tangible improvement. It may be time to clean house. We need to know if the players are as bad as they look to be or if the coaching is the problem.

7 minutes ago, tracker said:

I have been questioning O'Shea's leadership and judgement for some time and have been thinking that Walters deserves another kick at the can, but he has let O'Shea go way too long without tangible improvement. It may be time to clean house. We need to know if the players are as bad as they look to be or if the coaching is the problem.

Why? I had a real good seat to watch the abortion last night and there were maybe 2 plays all night where the D-Line actually got pressure on the stamps qb, they gave up nearly 200 yards rushing before the 4th quarter had even hit and were over 400 yards given up overall before the 4th as well. The runningbacks had no room to work with until the Stamps D backed off in the 4th, the best looking receivers were the rookies. This team is lacking talent in a big way. You don't get the ball run down your throat like it was last night when you are a talented team. The problems are players more than coaches at this point, I honestly believe that. 

Right now, this is a 3 win team.

We have changed players at just about every position yet, there has been no improvement. You can say that Walters is making all the right moves but if doesn't translate to improvement and wins, then it is a fail.

It all starts and ends with Walters.

 

It could be a 0-18 type season.

How bad can it get?

Hmm, fire OShea and make Lapo coach by game 8...  then sign Lapo to a 3 year contract after the season...

Willy gets hurt by game 4, Nichols finishes the season while Davis and Bennet wait... then Willy starts next season...

10 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Why? I had a real good seat to watch the abortion last night and there were maybe 2 plays all night where the D-Line actually got pressure on the stamps qb, they gave up nearly 200 yards rushing before the 4th quarter had even hit and were over 400 yards given up overall before the 4th as well. The runningbacks had no room to work with until the Stamps D backed off in the 4th, the best looking receivers were the rookies. This team is lacking talent in a big way. You don't get the ball run down your throat like it was last night when you are a talented team. The problems are players more than coaches at this point, I honestly believe that. 

So do we just continue to bail and try to keep this thing afloat? We're not going anywhere but down. How bad is it going to get if we do nothing? Or are you suggesting we get rid of Walters and bring in a different GM who will bring in better players?

It wasn't long ago that this forum was giddy and bubbling with all the new improved players we had brought in and the predictions of success were running rampant. If now suddenly our new players are a big bust, what the hell happened?

6 minutes ago, J5V said:

So do we just continue to bail and try to keep this thing afloat? We're not going anywhere but down. How bad is it going to get if we do nothing? Or are you suggesting we get rid of Walters and bring in a different GM who will bring in better players?

It wasn't long ago that this forum was giddy and bubbling with all the new improved players we had brought in and the predictions of success were running rampant. If now suddenly our new players are a big bust, what the hell happened?

Yeah and I cautioned people that we said the same thing last year and the year before. Simple fact is we aren't good enough anywhere right now. Messam ran guys over and tackles were missed all night, that's not coaching, that's guys not being good enough. 

18 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Right now, this is a 3 win team.

We have changed players at just about every position yet, there has been no improvement. You can say that Walters is making all the right moves but if doesn't translate to improvement and wins, then it is a fail.

It all starts and ends with Walters.

 

What hasn't changed in the last three years is the head coach and the starting QB. Willy said during the post-game show that he loves Mike O'Shea and I assume that MOS loves Willy. Maybe one or both of them needs to go.

17 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

It could be a 0-18 type season.

Has that ever happened in the CFL?

Not with an 18-game season at least. According to a quick search on Wikipedia, the 1949 Hamilton Wildcats went 0-12-0. The most recent 'worst' season was in 2003 when Hamilton posted a 1 - 17 record.

21 minutes ago, J5V said:

What hasn't changed in the last three years is the head coach and the starting QB. Willy said during the post-game show that he loves Mike O'Shea and I assume that MOS loves Willy. Maybe one or both of them needs to go.

Anyone with half a brain cell should realize what the end result is going to be when you start burning through washouts like Etch, Bellfoil, Hall and Lapo and do the same with your roster. The outcome was already determined even before the first whistle blew.

It's all on the players? 

Our D line Westerman (17 Sacks), Cummings (8 Sacks), Shologon (7 Sacks), newbie get 1 sack in 2 games? I doubt they forgot how to play so I have to assume it's coaching. Bass was 5th in the league in tackles last year. Wild was good enough to get an NFL look. Randle's a shut down corner. Leggatt would start on almost every team either at safety or LB. We weren't that good on defense last year, being 7th, 8th or 9th in a lot of categories. Personal wise, we're good enough to hold Calgary to under 200 yards rushing and 350 yards passing. Scheme is coaching. Being ready to play before the 4th quarter is coaching. 

On our O line, Bryant came in as an all star player and hasn't looked like one since he got here. Sorenson and Greaves weren't good enough to play for us, but are good enough to get Grey Cup rings in Edmonton. All three guys played better on other teams. I have to assume that 2 guys didn't magically get better when they left and that one guy got magically worse when he came here, so I blame it on coaching. I also blame it on Walters not bringing in more NI OL either through the draft or FA and for getting rid of NI's who are serviceable in the short term for futures like draft picks.

Harris is a top RB/Receiver. Smith is an almost 1000 yard receiver. Dressler and Adams too. Folks were crowing about how good our receiving corps was going to be this year until they saw them actually play. We have 'the most accurate FG kicker in the history of the league" as the Bomber like to say every time they talk about him.

The players we have can't play our schemes? That's on the coaches and the scouts, cuz they were brought in to play our schemes and if they can't do it, then change the freaking schemes to something they can play in.

 

Edited July 2, 20169 yr by TBURGESS

I think it's both sides, coaching and players.  We're missing some key players on D still.  We've got some good guys, but there's still some gaps.  Even though Macho made a couple of really good plays last night, there's was lots about him that wasn't good.  Hall also seems to be playing some soft D.  Not sure what's going on with a 2 time Grey Cup DC.

We still don't have a tall speedster for a receiver.  Smith and Dressler are good, also Mayo and Davis did a pretty good job, but I'm still not a huge Adams fan.  And he doesn't really have wheels on him.  I'm not saying we need a Milt Stegall, but something faster then what we have.  Someone with some urgency.  And Lapo needs to work on letting Willy do his thing.  Whether that's a hurry up offense or I dunno what.  Willy also needs to speed up his reads and learn to get out of the pocket instead of just standing there.  We're good at RB with Harris and Flanders.  Don't get me started on the Oline.  I don't know if that's players or if Wylie is losing his touch.

McDuffie and Flanders are both bright spots on the team.  ST's are doing fairly well.

Just want to also say, had that ref not screwed up Harris's TD that he CLEARLY made on the first drive, this would have been a different ball game.  Reffing still needs some work.  I mean if you're going to ***** about something, I'm surprised no one's bitched about that yet.

Edited July 2, 20169 yr by Logan007

4 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Yeah and I cautioned people that we said the same thing last year and the year before. Simple fact is we aren't good enough anywhere right now. Messam ran guys over and tackles were missed all night, that's not coaching, that's guys not being good enough. 

How is that not coaching? Guy missing assignments, bad tackling, poor planning. Players play bad when they don't have great coaching. It all goes hand in hand.

Rarely have I heard Bob Irving sound so hopeless than on last night's post game.  I would put money on him thinking O'Shea is captaining a sinking ship and does not know what to do about it. I expect more of the same.

All these good players on paper.....yet nobody did nothing.   Something is broken here.

3 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

How is that not coaching? Guy missing assignments, bad tackling, poor planning. Players play bad when they don't have great coaching. It all goes hand in hand.

Agreed. Calgary has arguably more talent but the gap is not wide enough to explain what we saw in that game... and the one before and I assume the next one too.

23 minutes ago, JohnnyOnTheSpot said:

Rarely have I heard Bob Irving sound so hopeless than on last night's post game.  I would put money on him thinking O'Shea is captaining a sinking ship and does not know what to do about it. I expect more of the same.

Ed Tait's post-mortem article in the Freep today was similarly pessimistic and scathing. O'Shea has few friends left apart from the players and coaches he has shielded.

Well since the last third of 2014, we've lost 7 of 24 by 20 or more. I guess it could start being every game by 20. That's worse right?

 

might be what we need. 

Muamba was very good, but he might be able to solve only one of our problems.

5 minutes ago, tracker said:

Muamba was very good, but he might be able to solve only one of our problems.

Winnipeg has survived many seasons based on the D...  like three decades...