Interesting opinion piece by Peter Tessier:

 

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Peter-Tessier/The-Frolik-Conundrum-What-Comes-Next/161/69044

 

A couple of snips for discussion:

 

it is rumoured that the player wants 5 million for each of 5 years and if the market stays the same it’s likely that he will get it, if not more.

 

. Even the national media pundits are seeing a Jets team with no Frolik next season. If this is the case who comes in?

Starting with age similar or younger

#1-The first option, at least by simple logic, is Alexander Burmistrov but he is not a right wing but he does possess a two way game and excels in some specialty roles.

#2- Erik Condra- he is believed to be leaving Ottawa and while there might be suitors he may be a cheaper option and he is only a year older. Frolik is the more complete player of the two, by a significant margin, and brings far more offensive upside but if dollars are an issue Condra would not be the worst alternative.


#3- Brad Richardson- he is useful but still a downgrade compared to Frolik. His underlying numbers peg him between a 3rd and 2nd line player and if that where the Jets feel they want to use Frolik why not pay a player the correct salary who fits that role- that would be Richardson.

Above age

#4- Joel Ward at age 34 is much like the Drew Stafford scenario, you like the guy but you’re not sure for how long. For two years at the right salary Ward could take his second line numbers and be a huge upgrade and mentor for the developing third line on the Jets.

#5- Justin Williams- speaking of mentors is there any available player who can bring the playoff experience and ‘intangibles’ of Justin Williams? Intangibles? Remember all those things we can’t quantify that make players seem really great! Williams has them all by some accounts and at age 33 he too would fit the same role as Ward.

#6- Mike Santorelli. While not a true RW he is a right shot and he’s younger than the above two players at 29. Santorelli was a Jet briefly in 2013 but either he had no interest in returning or the Jets had none in him but does that change now?

 

 

 

I can see Buff potentially being traded because of the depth on D.

No way Ladd is traded before the season starts even if doesn't sign.

Our forward depth isn't there to do it. And depending what is coming back, if we trade both and take $10M out of our lineup we are in danger of not reaching the cap floor.

Trade an elite, unique, 'puts bums in seats'  type player in his prime for a player who probably isn't in his prime. Does not compute.

 

 

 

Where did I say I want to trade him for a player who isn't in his prime?  You are probably getting a good 3rd line forward (maybe 2nd), a prospect, and a pick.  Either way we need the depth on forward more than a D-man right now.  

 

Unfortunately we also need roster players more than we need prospects right now. But you can always package up prospects in a trade.

 

But if Buff's camp is standing pat on wanting a 6 - 7 year deal, than the Jets have a choice to make:

 

A - Sign him to that deal and likely regret it for the last 3 - 4 years as an ageing Buff deteriorates fast.

B - Trade him

C - Keep him next year and lose him in free agency

 

Given those options, I would be fine with either B or C.   I would absolutely hate it if we gave Buff, a 260+ pound man with a history of not being in the best of shape and working out, a deal that would take him to 36+ years of age making 7+ million dollars (probably higher), regardless of how unique he is or how many bums he puts into a guaranteed sold out arena.

 

I never said you personally want him traded. i was reacting to your speculation, hence the bolded part. Also, I keep reading about his fitness. I don't have the exact stats on me, but he seemed to be able to play a higher amount of minutes for us this past season. Ironically he was being criticized for taking too long of shifts. We're both guessing on which route he takes as he gets older. You assume his history will dictate that, fair enough. I assume he's a competitor and will commit to being fit at the level he needs to be a impact player. 

 

 

So you would be fine committing $7 - 8M annually for 7 - 8 years?

 

 

 

 

I can see Buff potentially being traded because of the depth on D.

No way Ladd is traded before the season starts even if doesn't sign.

Our forward depth isn't there to do it. And depending what is coming back, if we trade both and take $10M out of our lineup we are in danger of not reaching the cap floor.

Trade an elite, unique, 'puts bums in seats'  type player in his prime for a player who probably isn't in his prime. Does not compute.

 

 

 

Where did I say I want to trade him for a player who isn't in his prime?  You are probably getting a good 3rd line forward (maybe 2nd), a prospect, and a pick.  Either way we need the depth on forward more than a D-man right now.  

 

Unfortunately we also need roster players more than we need prospects right now. But you can always package up prospects in a trade.

 

But if Buff's camp is standing pat on wanting a 6 - 7 year deal, than the Jets have a choice to make:

 

A - Sign him to that deal and likely regret it for the last 3 - 4 years as an ageing Buff deteriorates fast.

B - Trade him

C - Keep him next year and lose him in free agency

 

Given those options, I would be fine with either B or C.   I would absolutely hate it if we gave Buff, a 260+ pound man with a history of not being in the best of shape and working out, a deal that would take him to 36+ years of age making 7+ million dollars (probably higher), regardless of how unique he is or how many bums he puts into a guaranteed sold out arena.

 

I never said you personally want him traded. i was reacting to your speculation, hence the bolded part. Also, I keep reading about his fitness. I don't have the exact stats on me, but he seemed to be able to play a higher amount of minutes for us this past season. Ironically he was being criticized for taking too long of shifts. We're both guessing on which route he takes as he gets older. You assume his history will dictate that, fair enough. I assume he's a competitor and will commit to being fit at the level he needs to be a impact player. 

 

And he puts bums in seats in other arenas as well.

 

 

And he will still do that if he plays for another team.  It isn't the Jets job to fill others teams arenas.  Their job is to utilize their cap and budget to play the best team they can.

 

 

 

 

I can see Buff potentially being traded because of the depth on D.

No way Ladd is traded before the season starts even if doesn't sign.

Our forward depth isn't there to do it. And depending what is coming back, if we trade both and take $10M out of our lineup we are in danger of not reaching the cap floor.

Trade an elite, unique, 'puts bums in seats'  type player in his prime for a player who probably isn't in his prime. Does not compute.

 

 

 

Where did I say I want to trade him for a player who isn't in his prime?  You are probably getting a good 3rd line forward (maybe 2nd), a prospect, and a pick.  Either way we need the depth on forward more than a D-man right now.  

 

Unfortunately we also need roster players more than we need prospects right now. But you can always package up prospects in a trade.

 

But if Buff's camp is standing pat on wanting a 6 - 7 year deal, than the Jets have a choice to make:

 

A - Sign him to that deal and likely regret it for the last 3 - 4 years as an ageing Buff deteriorates fast.

B - Trade him

C - Keep him next year and lose him in free agency

 

Given those options, I would be fine with either B or C.   I would absolutely hate it if we gave Buff, a 260+ pound man with a history of not being in the best of shape and working out, a deal that would take him to 36+ years of age making 7+ million dollars (probably higher), regardless of how unique he is or how many bums he puts into a guaranteed sold out arena.

 

I never said you personally want him traded. i was reacting to your speculation, hence the bolded part. Also, I keep reading about his fitness. I don't have the exact stats on me, but he seemed to be able to play a higher amount of minutes for us this past season. Ironically he was being criticized for taking too long of shifts. We're both guessing on which route he takes as he gets older. You assume his history will dictate that, fair enough. I assume he's a competitor and will commit to being fit at the level he needs to be a impact player. 

 

 

So you would be fine committing $7 - 8M annually for 7 - 8 years?

 

Good question. If I was GM, I would try to sign him to a three to four year deal 24-32 million.

Has his agent formally asked for an 7-8 year deal? If so, no I would not sign him for that long. 

 

 

 

 

 

I can see Buff potentially being traded because of the depth on D.

No way Ladd is traded before the season starts even if doesn't sign.

Our forward depth isn't there to do it. And depending what is coming back, if we trade both and take $10M out of our lineup we are in danger of not reaching the cap floor.

Trade an elite, unique, 'puts bums in seats'  type player in his prime for a player who probably isn't in his prime. Does not compute.

 

 

 

Where did I say I want to trade him for a player who isn't in his prime?  You are probably getting a good 3rd line forward (maybe 2nd), a prospect, and a pick.  Either way we need the depth on forward more than a D-man right now.  

 

Unfortunately we also need roster players more than we need prospects right now. But you can always package up prospects in a trade.

 

But if Buff's camp is standing pat on wanting a 6 - 7 year deal, than the Jets have a choice to make:

 

A - Sign him to that deal and likely regret it for the last 3 - 4 years as an ageing Buff deteriorates fast.

B - Trade him

C - Keep him next year and lose him in free agency

 

Given those options, I would be fine with either B or C.   I would absolutely hate it if we gave Buff, a 260+ pound man with a history of not being in the best of shape and working out, a deal that would take him to 36+ years of age making 7+ million dollars (probably higher), regardless of how unique he is or how many bums he puts into a guaranteed sold out arena.

 

I never said you personally want him traded. i was reacting to your speculation, hence the bolded part. Also, I keep reading about his fitness. I don't have the exact stats on me, but he seemed to be able to play a higher amount of minutes for us this past season. Ironically he was being criticized for taking too long of shifts. We're both guessing on which route he takes as he gets older. You assume his history will dictate that, fair enough. I assume he's a competitor and will commit to being fit at the level he needs to be a impact player. 

 

And he puts bums in seats in other arenas as well.

 

 

And he will still do that if he plays for another team.  It isn't the Jets job to fill others teams arenas.  Their job is to utilize their cap and budget to play the best team they can.

 

Yes thank you, remarkibly I'm aware of that. I'm just saying he's good for the health of the league and a marketing tool for the jets.

 

 

 

 

 

I can see Buff potentially being traded because of the depth on D.

No way Ladd is traded before the season starts even if doesn't sign.

Our forward depth isn't there to do it. And depending what is coming back, if we trade both and take $10M out of our lineup we are in danger of not reaching the cap floor.

Trade an elite, unique, 'puts bums in seats'  type player in his prime for a player who probably isn't in his prime. Does not compute.

 

 

 

Where did I say I want to trade him for a player who isn't in his prime?  You are probably getting a good 3rd line forward (maybe 2nd), a prospect, and a pick.  Either way we need the depth on forward more than a D-man right now.  

 

Unfortunately we also need roster players more than we need prospects right now. But you can always package up prospects in a trade.

 

But if Buff's camp is standing pat on wanting a 6 - 7 year deal, than the Jets have a choice to make:

 

A - Sign him to that deal and likely regret it for the last 3 - 4 years as an ageing Buff deteriorates fast.

B - Trade him

C - Keep him next year and lose him in free agency

 

Given those options, I would be fine with either B or C.   I would absolutely hate it if we gave Buff, a 260+ pound man with a history of not being in the best of shape and working out, a deal that would take him to 36+ years of age making 7+ million dollars (probably higher), regardless of how unique he is or how many bums he puts into a guaranteed sold out arena.

 

I never said you personally want him traded. i was reacting to your speculation, hence the bolded part. Also, I keep reading about his fitness. I don't have the exact stats on me, but he seemed to be able to play a higher amount of minutes for us this past season. Ironically he was being criticized for taking too long of shifts. We're both guessing on which route he takes as he gets older. You assume his history will dictate that, fair enough. I assume he's a competitor and will commit to being fit at the level he needs to be a impact player. 

 

 

So you would be fine committing $7 - 8M annually for 7 - 8 years?

 

Good question. If I was GM, I would try to sign him to a three to four year deal 24-32 million.

Has his agent formally asked for an 7-8 year deal? If so, no I would not sign him for that long. 

 

 

I'd be fine with that term and dollar value as well.

 

But there have been rumblings that he will be looking for longer.  Could just be media speculation though.  

Can't see Buff signing for less than five years...

Ladd will sign long term. Just a matter of a few days. Buff could be moved if he wants too much. Ladd is the captain and face of the team. If jets could only sign one it's Ladd every time. Not to mention the whole trouba Myers top 2 RHD thing

Jets don't need Buff to sell tickets.

Jets don't need Buff to sell tickets.

No doubt. What a silly thing to say really. That one made me go hmm for sure. Honestly trading buff is probably the best move for the long term of the franchise. Keeping him and letting him walk for free tho. Yikes. Decision needs to be made on buff b4 start of season.

Buff would get you a nice package for sure. I hope they move him. I like buff but I'd move him yesterday if I were the jets. He'd get a ton back. A first a prospect and a roster player for sure.

Imagine the people getting hot and bothered over Frolik. Now times it by 1000 if the jets let buff play out his final season. Sign or trade.

Imagine the people getting hot and bothered over Frolik. Now times it by 1000 if the jets let buff play out his final season. Sign or trade.

 

The day the Jets run this team based on perceived fan reaction is the day we might as well stop trying.

Once again... I have full faith in Chevy and his decisions.      I'd imagine that he won't either sign Buff long term or else get good assets at the deadline for him regardless if we are in a play off race or not.  

 

Teams will be throwing A LOT at the deadline to get a guy who brings his unique qualities.     Heck maybe the Jets make a big trade and then re-sign him after the season is over!  

The problem is you end up in another Frolik scenario if you keep buff until his contract runs out. If you get the deadline with the jets battling for a playoff spot what do you do?

It would be a terrible position to be in. Buff isn't frolik. They have to make a decision before the season begins.

They will deal Buff if that is the case..he would net to much to avoid that.

They for sure don't need to make the decision before the season starts...he'd still bring top dollar at the deadline.

If he doesn't re-sign for what Chevy wants, it is wise to trade hi as soon as possible.

A 2nd liner and a 1st and 3rd sound fair.

They are crazy if they wait for the deadline because then they end up in the Frolik conundrum. Do you trade a guy you need for your own playoff push and the damage it does to the team psyche to trade a top guy in a playoff battle? Or keep him and lose him for nothing? You can't be in that position.

They are crazy if they wait for the deadline because then they end up in the Frolik conundrum. Do you trade a guy you need for your own playoff push and the damage it does to the team psyche to trade a top guy in a playoff battle? Or keep him and lose him for nothing? You can't be in that position.

I disagree, I think any desperate team will offer more at the dead line.

It's not about squeezing an extra prospect. It's about killing our own chances. You're not getting bodies back that will help you at the deadline. Not to mention the balance of power ends up solely with the player.

If Pittsburgh is in tight, maybe you get Maata, Byron and a 1st at the deadline... that team needs to win the cup this year or the next

Assuming we are fighting for a playoff spot but if not those bodies or picks you get don't really matter

If Pittsburgh is in tight, maybe you get Maata, Byron and a 1st at the deadline... that team needs to win the cup this year or the next

First goes to Toronto in the Kessel deal

You don't HAVE to wait for the deadline....maybe after the gm's see what they have and what they need come mid-December or so, but really, you'll get top dollar for Buff most any time of the season.

4 years for 32m, sign here.

Friedman's 30 thoughts

25. Tried to piece together how close Winnipeg came to re-signing Michael Frolik because it’s clear GM Kevin Cheveldayoff was frustrated. Agent Allan Walsh wouldn’t comment, but a couple teams suspected the Jets offered four years at $16 million before free agency began, then talked about the possibility of $4.25M per, although I’m not sure it actually got there. There was at least one offer higher than Calgary's. I wondered if it was New Jersey, because Walsh has a good history with Ray Shero, but that’s purely a guess. He’s an excellent fit for the Flames. Frolik’s departure could be a gift for Alexander Burmistrov, who wants a top-nine role. Yes, he’s normally a centre, but can play wing. This is a relationship that needs some trust built back into it, and stepping into the void would be a good start. The Jets may also give a long look to Joel Armia, acquired in the Evander Kane trade.

 

 

***Some speculation i read was Frolik's agent was trying to work Chevy into a bigger offer.  Once Chevy signed Stafford, he limited the agent's leverage.  All things being mostly equal, Frlik chose the city/team he wanted.  This is especially true if he turned down better offers to go to Calgary.

Friedman's 30 thoughts

25. Tried to piece together how close Winnipeg came to re-signing Michael Frolik because it’s clear GM Kevin Cheveldayoff was frustrated. Agent Allan Walsh wouldn’t comment, but a couple teams suspected the Jets offered four years at $16 million before free agency began, then talked about the possibility of $4.25M per, although I’m not sure it actually got there. There was at least one offer higher than Calgary's. I wondered if it was New Jersey, because Walsh has a good history with Ray Shero, but that’s purely a guess. He’s an excellent fit for the Flames. Frolik’s departure could be a gift for Alexander Burmistrov, who wants a top-nine role. Yes, he’s normally a centre, but can play wing. This is a relationship that needs some trust built back into it, and stepping into the void would be a good start. The Jets may also give a long look to Joel Armia, acquired in the Evander Kane trade.

 

 

***Some speculation i read was Frolik's agent was trying to work Chevy into a bigger offer.  Once Chevy signed Stafford, he limited the agent's leverage.  All things being mostly equal, Frlik chose the city/team he wanted.  This is especially true if he turned down better offers to go to Calgary.

People leaving Wpg to go to Cal? Say it aint so.