Bombers at TiCats early chat

[17to85]

So if we're admitting the coach doesn't put the best roster on the field.... why start with the gm? How do we know he's not providing the tools to rebuild an aging roster when the coach won't make the transitions?

[Booch]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Just so we are clear here.... you're saying they're not playing the strongest lineup they can?

yeah...i sense that what he saying...and some clamor lets try the guys not on...but he says they no good...yet we havnt seen them for a multi game stretch so we cant really say they not better...but I sure cant be worse...but we will likely never know

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

I'm arguing about the impact roster usage has in our over all ability to win. You guys seem to think it makes a big impact and I don't think it would. I don't think that replacing Thomas for Woods or dressing another DL for Ayers would make a lick of difference. It is head scratching for sure, our roster usage, until I look at how poor our depth is. My biggest beef with the last 3 years on this forum is how myopic it has become. We have spent 20000 posts talking about roster slots 51 thru 53 and about 100 posts talking about the massive talent drain that's been going on. The lack of talent retention is 95% of what our biggest problem is right now and all you guys want to key in on is how we are not putting in scrubs to replace scrubs. Lets talk about how a Joey Corcoran makes our team and plays actual games because our receiving corps is hot garbage, let's talk about how our OL went from dominant to the worst in the CFL. let's talk about Chris Streveler now being our starting QB and the guy is not a CFL calibre starter. These are the reasons we will not win going forward. MOS has flaws but he has clearly demonstrated an ability to win if you give him players. Walters has not done that.

thomas inefectiveness makes the rest of line suffer....its a tandem unit..Woods played damn good last yr and our defense faltered after he got hurt

Adams played just fine this yr...better than KORN..Schmeck and Thomas...but he tales a seay on pine when there is ways to have him and Woods on roster...but we dont

J.Jones too...u say he is a ham and egger...hardly true....our best game of yr on defence was a game he played reg reps on defence in rotation

You dont know until you know...But Osh refuses to try and find out....just continues trotting out poor choices where it abundantly clear what he is using..and how he using them isnt optimal

[Booch]

18 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

So if we're admitting the coach doesn't put the best roster on the field.... why start with the gm? How do we know he's not providing the tools to rebuild an aging roster when the coach won't make the transitions?

exactly....and in the history of footbll...85 percent of time when teams get to this point...it's the HC first...as it cause the least organizational upheaval....its how it goes...Its either clean house...or can coach at end of the season....not mid season....

[HardCoreBlue]

10 minutes ago, Booch said:

yeah...i sense that what he saying...and some clamor lets try the guys not on...but he says they no good...yet we havnt seen them for a multi game stretch so we cant really say they not better...but I sure cant be worse...but we will likely never know

thomas inefectiveness makes the rest of line suffer....its a tandem unit..Woods played damn good last yr and our defense faltered after he got hurt

Adams played just fine this yr...better than KORN..Schmeck and Thomas...but he tales a seay on pine when there is ways to have him and Woods on roster...but we dont

J.Jones too...u say he is a ham and egger...hardly true....our best game of yr on defence was a game he played reg reps on defence in rotation

You dont know until you know...But Osh refuses to try and find out....just continues trotting out poor choices where it abundantly clear what he is using..and how he using them isnt optimal

That's a great point/reminder. You could say that for any position. That's why football is the ultimate team sport. One player falters not only impacts his responsibilities but others as well

[wbbfan]

33 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

So if we're admitting the coach doesn't put the best roster on the field.... why start with the gm? How do we know he's not providing the tools to rebuild an aging roster when the coach won't make the transitions?

Imo, it is easier to replace a GM than a HC. Also, the GM is the boss of the HC. The HCs sustained failure to field the best game day rosters for soo long, having lost us GCs, speaks volumes about walters being willing to be Mos boss. If walters isn't able to get his team to do the most basic competitive action, changing coaches won't fix that. 

 In order to fire some one, and remain competitive, you have to have succsession. If we fire walters, and promote Danny, we only need to fill in a scout. If we fire Mos, we have no one on hand to take those reigns and move us forward. i don't see any stellar next man up candidates around the league either. You're basically hoping for a dinwiddie type guy to get fired. Which might not happen at all. 

[17to85]

27 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Imo, it is easier to replace a GM than a HC. Also, the GM is the boss of the HC. The HCs sustained failure to field the best game day rosters for soo long, having lost us GCs, speaks volumes about walters being willing to be Mos boss. If walters isn't able to get his team to do the most basic competitive action, changing coaches won't fix that. 

 In order to fire some one, and remain competitive, you have to have succsession. If we fire walters, and promote Danny, we only need to fill in a scout. If we fire Mos, we have no one on hand to take those reigns and move us forward. i don't see any stellar next man up candidates around the league either. You're basically hoping for a dinwiddie type guy to get fired. Which might not happen at all. 

but if the coach is handicapping himself what good is a new GM? I mean you wanna say clean house because after 12 years or whatever it is things are stale a new a direction entirely is warranted sure I'll listen to that, but you can't stick with a coach who refuses to put his best roster on the field when things start falling apart  and if you saddle a new gm with that then you're just asking for trouble and said new GM having to fire a coach eventually anyway. 

 

start at the bottom and work your way up. players, coordinators, head coach, then GM. That's how you go about assessing the issues. 

[GCn20]

57 minutes ago, Booch said:

yeah...i sense that what he saying...and some clamor lets try the guys not on...but he says they no good...yet we havnt seen them for a multi game stretch so we cant really say they not better...but I sure cant be worse...but we will likely never know

thomas inefectiveness makes the rest of line suffer....its a tandem unit..Woods played damn good last yr and our defense faltered after he got hurt

Adams played just fine this yr...better than KORN..Schmeck and Thomas...but he tales a seay on pine when there is ways to have him and Woods on roster...but we dont

J.Jones too...u say he is a ham and egger...hardly true....our best game of yr on defence was a game he played reg reps on defence in rotation

You dont know until you know...But Osh refuses to try and find out....just continues trotting out poor choices where it abundantly clear what he is using..and how he using them isnt optimal

...or maybe it is optimal and this whole thing is completely on Walters and recruitment. I would like to find out as well.  don't get me wrong, I do not like his roster game in and game out either. My opinion after seeing numerous guys in spot duty that everyone is clamoring for such as J. Jones etc is that they really would not have any impact at all if played. However, I really do hope I'm wrong. So far this past couple years our depth has looked terrible when they get their chance. However I do agree that doing nothing isn't going to help either. Play the young guys and let's give our depth an extended look, this season was lost last week anyway.

Edited 2 hours ago by GCn20

[wbbfan]

9 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

but if the coach is handicapping himself what good is a new GM? I mean you wanna say clean house because after 12 years or whatever it is things are stale a new a direction entirely is warranted sure I'll listen to that, but you can't stick with a coach who refuses to put his best roster on the field when things start falling apart  and if you saddle a new gm with that then you're just asking for trouble and said new GM having to fire a coach eventually anyway. 

 

start at the bottom and work your way up. players, coordinators, head coach, then GM. That's how you go about assessing the issues. 

The new gm, has to be authoritative. If that happens, they can force the HC to change and grow. 

I don't think you can burn it all down and compete next year, or maybe even the following year. Where our franchise is now, I think being a strong steady play off team but not the front runner is good. I don't think the fans who've jumped on board since 19 will stomach a return to the bottom. 

We have already bleed out from teh bottom up. Most of our front office and half our coaching staff has been replaced. It's really walters and mos at this point that are long term hold overs. Guys like danny don't have a ton of time in the room, and Hall has been semi retired for a long while now. 

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

I'm arguing about the impact roster usage has in our over all ability to win. You guys seem to think it makes a big impact and I don't think it would. I don't think that replacing Thomas for Woods or dressing another DL for Ayers would make a lick of difference. It is head scratching for sure, our roster usage, until I look at how poor our depth is. My biggest beef with the last 3 years on this forum is how myopic it has become. We have spent 20000 posts talking about roster slots 51 thru 53 and about 100 posts talking about the massive talent drain that's been going on. The lack of talent retention is 95% of what our biggest problem is right now and all you guys want to key in on is how we are not putting in scrubs to replace scrubs. Lets talk about how a Joey Corcoran makes our team and plays actual games because our receiving corps is hot garbage, let's talk about how our OL went from dominant to the worst in the CFL. let's talk about Chris Streveler now being our starting QB and the guy is not a CFL calibre starter. These are the reasons we will not win going forward. MOS has flaws but he has clearly demonstrated an ability to win if you give him players. Walters has not done that.

How the heck would you know if the newbies  do not have a decent chance to get game experience?

[bigg jay]

15 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

...or maybe it is optimal and this whole thing is completely on Walters and recruitment. I would like to find out as well.  don't get me wrong, I do not like his roster game in and game out either. My opinion after seeing numerous guys in spot duty that everyone is clamoring for such as J. Jones etc is that they really would not have any impact at all if played. However, I really do hope I'm wrong. So far this past couple years our depth has looked terrible when they get their chance. However I do agree that doing nothing isn't going to help either. Play the young guys and let's give our depth an extended look, this season was lost last week anyway.

There are other issues with his decision making that have nothing to do with Walters or recruitment.  His decision, for example, to refuse to use the DA rule is baffling - like why would you handicap yourself and your team because you don't like a rule?  

[17to85]

32 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

such as J. Jones etc is that they really would not have any impact at all if played

Then one game Jones got substantial playing time was probably the best defensive performance of the year...

[Booch]

31 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

...or maybe it is optimal and this whole thing is completely on Walters and recruitment. I would like to find out as well.  don't get me wrong, I do not like his roster game in and game out either. My opinion after seeing numerous guys in spot duty that everyone is clamoring for such as J. Jones etc is that they really would not have any impact at all if played. However, I really do hope I'm wrong. So far this past couple years our depth has looked terrible when they get their chance. However I do agree that doing nothing isn't going to help either. Play the young guys and let's give our depth an extended look, this season was lost last week anyway.

I think we all agree for most part...6 of this...half dozen of that

RThere are issues...and for most part self inflicted with either stubbornness...neglect...lack of awareness....ineptitude??....but things have to be corrected fast, and if that means that hanges is in order cause of the stubborness and yes...personal bias then so be it

I also believe that yes...we have guys in house if given the chance can be effective....and we wont know until given said chance...these last 6 games should be used as such to get jump on 2026....because if some of what we have now is not worthy...may as well find out now and be further ahead for TC

 

[17to85]

Honestly at minimum playing the best roster available would have gotten us 3 cups in 5 tries rather than 2.

[Booch]

27 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

The new gm, has to be authoritative. If that happens, they can force the HC to change and grow. 

I don't think you can burn it all down and compete next year, or maybe even the following year. Where our franchise is now, I think being a strong steady play off team but not the front runner is good. I don't think the fans who've jumped on board since 19 will stomach a return to the bottom. 

We have already bleed out from teh bottom up. Most of our front office and half our coaching staff has been replaced. It's really walters and mos at this point that are long term hold overs. Guys like danny don't have a ton of time in the room, and Hall has been semi retired for a long while now. 

THIS buddy buddy relationship with G.M and HC was bad bad bad right from the get go....just took a lil but to manifest

 

18 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

There are other issues with his decision making that have nothing to do with Walters or recruitment.  His decision, for example, to refuse to use the DA rule is baffling - like why would you handicap yourself and your team because you don't like a rule?  

walter also doesn't force him to play hurt guys....

 

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Then one game Jones got substantial playing time was probably the best defensive performance of the year...

yeah....he is legit....like I said...go watch games of his in T.O....HE also immediately made T.Jones play better

Just now, 17to85 said:

Honestly at minimum playing the best roster available would have gotten us 3 cups in 5 tries rather than 2.

that\s bare minimum....and really....this yr we should have been chasing our 6th win in a row....thats the nutkick of all this