GDT: Winnipeg @ Ottawa

[Mike]

32 minutes ago, J5V said:

I get that. I'm talking about abandoning the running game when it's purring right along. Why would an OC do that? I'm just trying to understand. I always thought the idea was to do what is successful until the D takes it away from you. 

The thing to keep in mind is that fans generally need to see results to understand something isn't working, whereas coaches generally look at the schemes to understand that something isn't GOING to work.

*hypothetical*

Harris runs 5 times in a row, 8+ yards on every single carry.

Lapo calls an option with the primary being a run again, because it's working (of course)

Nichols comes to the line, sees D stacking the box when the primary is a run between the tackles and audibles out to a passing play

Fans wonder why we didn't keep running - Team sees a good read by the QB to stop a play before he knew it wasn't going to work

*end hypothetical*

That's why we pay them to make those decisions while we sit and watch.

[rebusrankin]

13 minutes ago, Mike said:

The thing to keep in mind is that fans generally need to see results to understand something isn't working, whereas coaches generally look at the schemes to understand that something isn't GOING to work.

*hypothetical*

Harris runs 5 times in a row, 8+ yards on every single carry.

Lapo calls an option with the primary being a run again, because it's working (of course)

Nichols comes to the line, sees D stacking the box when the primary is a run between the tackles and audibles out to a passing play

Fans wonder why we didn't keep running - Team sees a good read by the QB to stop a play before he knew it wasn't going to work

*end hypothetical*

That's why we pay them to make those decisions while we sit and watch.

What? My opinion doesn't count as much? But I'm like killing it at CFL Fantasy this year.

[Guest J5V]

26 minutes ago, Mike said:

The thing to keep in mind is that fans generally need to see results to understand something isn't working, whereas coaches generally look at the schemes to understand that something isn't GOING to work.

*hypothetical*

Harris runs 5 times in a row, 8+ yards on every single carry.

Lapo calls an option with the primary being a run again, because it's working (of course)

Nichols comes to the line, sees D stacking the box when the primary is a run between the tackles and audibles out to a passing play

Fans wonder why we didn't keep running - Team sees a good read by the QB to stop a play before he knew it wasn't going to work

*end hypothetical*

That's why we pay them to make those decisions while we sit and watch.

Great point and I do understand that. Stacking the box doesn't mean the primary isn't going to work though, does it? I'm not going to pretend I understand schemes as well as you do, I know I don't, but with all due respect, couldn't Harris read the D just as the QB did and feint a step towards the middle of the line and then break it outside for positive yardage? I'm sure I saw Van do this, or something similar, several times last night. It highlighted just how good he was at doing that and he's quite good. Andrew is too. 

My point is that until they demonstrate they can stop it, run it down their throats.

But you're right, they're paid to make those decisions and I'm just a fan. I'm sure my opinion is coloured by the fact I wanted Andrew to get a few more touches so he could hit 1,000 yards. At the rate he was going he would have only needed two or three more. He showed he was ready and up for it by averaging 6 yards a carry. Surely we could have managed that without risking the W. As a fan I was extremely disappointed that somewhere in the scheming we couldn't find a way to accommodate him. I'd love to know if MOS was pissed at LAPO for not allowing it to happen. 10 carries for 60 yards. 3 in the first, 2 in the second, 3 in the third, and just 2 in the fourth with the 1,000 yard mark so tantalizingly close and the game well-in-hand. 

[kelownabomberfan]

20 hours ago, BomberBall said:

Rory needs to take a seat on the bench for a few series.  Dude has given up a couple of picks the last few games.  He shouldn't get a free pass.

someone needs to tell him that he's playing football and not volleyball.

[Nolby]

I don't know why JFG isn't starting over Rory. In the passed few years, JFG has showed much more abilities to be a Canadian starter than Rory.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Nolby

[Mike]

1 hour ago, J5V said:

Great point and I do understand that. Stacking the box doesn't mean the primary isn't going to work though, does it? I'm not going to pretend I understand schemes as well as you do, I know I don't, but with all due respect, couldn't Harris read the D just as the QB did and feint a step towards the middle of the line and then break it outside for positive yardage? I'm sure I saw Van do this, or something similar, several times last night. It highlighted just how good he was at doing that and he's quite good. Andrew is too. 

I won't get into it, because I'm certainly not knowledgeable enough to do so but basically what it boils down to is that it's nowhere near that simple.

Few things I'll touch on:

- the other team gets paid to show up and make plays as well, sometimes you can do everything right and it's still not going to work

- Harris making a cut back read or going off tackle is great, but if he's freelancing and not following his blocks, the percentages don't favor him being productive in the long term ... Van is going off tackle, but it's nowhere near as simple as that - he doesn't just decide that he's going to freelance that kind of move, it's all within the play call and the blocking he's receiving is intended to flow with that

If you want to read a bit more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2015/05/21/differences-between-the-zone-and-power-running-schemes/

Good read.

 

[Guest J5V]

1 minute ago, Mike said:

I won't get into it, because I'm certainly not knowledgeable enough to do so but basically what it boils down to is that it's nowhere near that simple.

Few things I'll touch on:

- the other team gets paid to show up and make plays as well, sometimes you can do everything right and it's still not going to work

- Harris making a cut back read or going off tackle is great, but if he's freelancing and not following his blocks, the percentages don't favor him being productive in the long term ... Van is going off tackle, but it's nowhere near as simple as that - he doesn't just decide that he's going to freelance that kind of move, it's all within the play call and the blocking he's receiving is intended to flow with that

If you want to read a bit more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2015/05/21/differences-between-the-zone-and-power-running-schemes/

Good read.

 

Excellent stuff. Thanks kindly.

[bearpants]

On 11/5/2016 at 9:40 AM, Noeller said:

I won't disagree with that sentiment. It's battered wife syndrome, for lack of a better term. I live in a constant state of fear with this team because I've been hurt so many times. I just come to expect that we can't have nice things. 

Let's call it Stockholm Syndrome... we've been taking hostage by the team losing for so long... yet we've falling in love with the team... now that we start winning it's hard to be too happy b/c we still believe we are hostage to the losing... 

I guess your analogy is better.... just trying to be a little more PC