17to85

relentless logic and not allowing people to get out of erroneous claims? Yeah it does tend to win debates.

He's a less talented Nic Grigsby

Is he THAT loyal though? He's fired people that folks said he'd never fire and that he personally likes, he's cut players not performing (just slower than some people like). I don't think O'Shea is loyal to a fault, I think he's just patient.... which is likely why so many here have a problem with him. Lotta knee jerk reactions types on message boards. Etch, MB and Kuale say hi and he tossed Etch and Kuale! Yes he did, but after the damage had been done and the season was over. He stuck by both even though it was clear that neither was good enough. In the case of Etch, it was pretty clear that he agonized over the decision, which is completely baffling to me because Etch was so incredibly bad. And you don't wait an entire season to see if an under performing MLB will suddenly "get it" especially when he was doing the same thing with another team before we signed him. Instead, you march down to your GM and get him to find you someone else chop bloody chop. So sorry, waiting for season's end to fix stuff doesn't count in my books. You're still confusing loyalty with patience. No sorry, I'm not. Patience is waiting to see if you can correct a problem, but acting when it becomes apparent that you can't Loyalty (the problematic kind) is hanging onto someone long after they've demonstrated that they are just not good enough under some delusion that a bolt from the blue will strike and they'll suddenly morph into the player/coach you always knew they would be. I will grant that it is possible that what we are seeing is not misplaced loyalty, but sheer stubbornness, or pride. Label it what you will, but the results seem to be the same. No you really are, trying to change the definition isn't a good argument, just trying to salvage a losing position.

Well ultimately it comes down to Walters because he picked the scouting staff.

But doesn't that particular issue rest in Kyle Walters lap rather than O'Sheas? Afterall the only competition in camp was Portis who wasn't as good as anyone and Yantz the token Canadian feel good story. I see more GM failings on this team than head coach failings. Regardless of what we think about Bellefool, can we honestly say this team has enough talent? They signed Chevon Walker for gods sake! That's just bad GMing right there. Has Kyle Walters recruited any receivers we can put on the field and expect a good performance from? Denmark came from Mack, Moore from BC, Adams from Toronto, Kohlert from Mack, JFG seems to me was an O'Shea guy, where are the receivers that Kyle Walters brought to this team? It's been a couple years now surely at least one should have shown up. You can't win in the CFL unless you are able to recruit some talent.

Is he THAT loyal though? He's fired people that folks said he'd never fire and that he personally likes, he's cut players not performing (just slower than some people like). I don't think O'Shea is loyal to a fault, I think he's just patient.... which is likely why so many here have a problem with him. Lotta knee jerk reactions types on message boards. Etch, MB and Kuale say hi and he tossed Etch and Kuale! Yes he did, but after the damage had been done and the season was over. He stuck by both even though it was clear that neither was good enough. In the case of Etch, it was pretty clear that he agonized over the decision, which is completely baffling to me because Etch was so incredibly bad. And you don't wait an entire season to see if an under performing MLB will suddenly "get it" especially when he was doing the same thing with another team before we signed him. Instead, you march down to your GM and get him to find you someone else chop bloody chop. So sorry, waiting for season's end to fix stuff doesn't count in my books. You're still confusing loyalty with patience.

Is he THAT loyal though? He's fired people that folks said he'd never fire and that he personally likes, he's cut players not performing (just slower than some people like). I don't think O'Shea is loyal to a fault, I think he's just patient.... which is likely why so many here have a problem with him. Lotta knee jerk reactions types on message boards. Etch, MB and Kuale say hi Yes they do, and they prove my point. Kuale and Etch both got tossed on their asses, just not as quickly as fans wanted, IE. O'Shea is patient but will make changes. He also tossed Tracey despite him being a guy O'Shea was close to. He will make the hard decisions and turf people you think he is loyal to, but he appears more patient than loyal and as I said, no wonder that rubs some fans the wrong way, lots of impatient people around these parts.

If you want to review Walkers skills re-watch the Bombers first game against the RB's last season. No doubt that he had the physical talent at that time but as we have seen until recently with Stoudermire sometimes these guys forget how to use it. No Walker has been the same since day one with Hamilton. He's fast. If he has a big hole to run through he's got the speed to exploit it but when the going gets tough he folds faster than superman on laundry day. Speed gets guys 9 lives in sports but if you can't do anything with that speed but run through gaping holes you're not a football player, just a track star. I was not impressed with Walker and wondered why Winnipeg bothered bringing him in. Interesting comment about his speed though. There is something very wrong with Bombers run game and it doesn't matter who the RB is. First, they telegraph every run. So its easy for the D to pick up. Secondly, every run play takes too long to develop. You can count steamboats while the QB is holding the ball out there waiting for the back to take the ball and then silly-walk into Picard's backside or one of the Bombers guards or the waiting arms of an opposing defender. It's been like that for the past couple of seasons. Its almost like there's no communication between the O line and backfield. And of course no play action to give pause to the D and no misdirection. Major fail. Does MOS not see this? Everyone does that read play with the qb though. The qb is holding the ball to see what the defense does and if he's going to pull the ball or let the rb take it. The problems with the Bombers offense are bigger than how long it takes for the rb to get the ball.

Is he THAT loyal though? He's fired people that folks said he'd never fire and that he personally likes, he's cut players not performing (just slower than some people like). I don't think O'Shea is loyal to a fault, I think he's just patient.... which is likely why so many here have a problem with him. Lotta knee jerk reactions types on message boards.

I don't understand this. Are you implying that they're better simply because they're catching more touchdowns? Don't you know? Touchdowns are the only stat that matters when it comes to receivers.

If you want to review Walkers skills re-watch the Bombers first game against the RB's last season. No doubt that he had the physical talent at that time but as we have seen until recently with Stoudermire sometimes these guys forget how to use it. No Walker has been the same since day one with Hamilton. He's fast. If he has a big hole to run through he's got the speed to exploit it but when the going gets tough he folds faster than superman on laundry day. Speed gets guys 9 lives in sports but if you can't do anything with that speed but run through gaping holes you're not a football player, just a track star.

I don't buy that. I think O'Shea wanted consistency and continuity, they felt they could spend money on the OL and improve things and it didn't work out. We have a pretty clear impression that O'Shea isn't happy with the way the offense has performed and he's basicalyl all but called out the OC. He'll be replaced in the offseason I have no doubts about it.

Cry? I don't think so. Why do you make things out to be something they're not? We all know that you like Liram. You've defended him more than anyone here & don't like it when he's criticized. But we also know that you like to assume the worst and cry about it regardless of the actual facts

Ottawa has been healthy all year, don't discount that in the assessment of their roster.

no one could have predicted this!

Bucknor plays way too far off the receiver. I don't know if it's because he lacks speed or what but throwing under him is easy as pie. Somehow he still manages to get burned deep too so I really don't think much of him. Not sure why he is even on this team. Surely Walters could have done better by now. Every corner in that position plays off the receiver. Better to give up a short pass underneath than get burned for a big play over the top and if the qb floats the ball out to the wide receiver then the DB has a chance to break on the ball. Playing off is simply playing the way he's asked to because there is help under neath from half backs and linebackers, there's no help over the top. Wait......you know you're defending Bucknor...........right? If you want to bash a guy use real reasons. poor logic is what I am arguing.

Walters figures out what fans knew a month ago, Walker is useless as a runningback and a waste of time to sign.

Chevon Walker at this point is a waste of a down every time they go to him.

Bucknor plays way too far off the receiver. I don't know if it's because he lacks speed or what but throwing under him is easy as pie. Somehow he still manages to get burned deep too so I really don't think much of him. Not sure why he is even on this team. Surely Walters could have done better by now. Every corner in that position plays off the receiver. Better to give up a short pass underneath than get burned for a big play over the top and if the qb floats the ball out to the wide receiver then the DB has a chance to break on the ball. Playing off is simply playing the way he's asked to because there is help under neath from half backs and linebackers, there's no help over the top.

because kickers are notoriously mental

How can you not watch the games when they're on? The offseason drags on and on and on any Bomber game is worth watching.

Americans subsidize the crap out of their dairy industry though so what's the actual cost when you factor in the taxes being paid.

Well it's all for not cause no matter what happens in the east this year the Grey Cup game is out doors in Winnipeg in November. Burris ain't gonna win when the weather gets cold, remember the ass raping he got when he played the Grey Cup game in Regina just a couple seasons ago? Guy is the ultimate fair weather qb. Expect his game to fall off when the weather gets cooler because it always happens.

Half Pints is the best of the bunch if you ask me.

Here is something that a lot of fans tend to forget.... The huge free agent deals are often the ones that teams regret the most. You get a great player for sure, but he eats up a large chunk of your cap space and if he doesn't live up to the very high expectations it becomes a lightning rod for criticism. Generally the best free agent deals are the under the radar ones where you snag a guy on the verge of breaking out and get good value for money. Let's not worry about Muamba too much, we're getting good play from our linebackers in my opinion for a lot cheaper than if Muamba was here. Would have loved to have him here, but he's in Montreal and so be it.