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Mills

@DTonOB, how many snaps have Connor Shay and Jaylen Smith played on defense so far? Thanks in advance.

Jake playing nearly 70% of snaps is absurd. Would love to know how many snaps Ayers has played. Ditto our 2 rookies Shay and Smith. Feel like both Shay and Smith have less than 26 defensive reps but have so much upside.

Who is the guy with the droopy head who looks asleep in his stance? Jake Thomas the guy with the third highest reps on the team. Jeezus.

when u said he gonna be depth and depth only and thats fine...I said you are a fool to believe that knowing Osh was the HC....Here's one time I wish I was wrong but I knew I wouldnt be I was shocked Korny made team...let alone active roster And with Adams it's not necessarily stats that show the true story...he consumes usually 2 guys...causes pressure and makes the QB have to move/change launch point or get flushed into someone else....but if we had complimentary peices with him...and Lawson...that would change in a big way and when we have both nim and Lawson on feild together in a 4 man....even one or both in 3 man...we have more sucess and pressure than with the other 2

they are not in some areas...Osh is putting out guys based on his heart and opinion...not talent sad....and fact Korn has 26 snaps most likely parking one of lawson...Adams even sadder pathetic if you watched any pre-season game action you could have seen it People I talked to re: camp said they were the better....and the few practices I been to since, where they run thru just basic technical stuff...running....movements you can see it.....it's plain as day they also run fronts with athletic and versatile guys...which help....we have currently 4 guys able to do that (WJ..Vaught..Adams...Lawson) but they need help and with Korn..Thomas and a converted LB at rotational end...we dont have the proper players....ends are dogged out and have to take plays off whether they want to or not... Guys like Person...Bailey....can and have played teams...Fox and Woods last yr did as well....you dont need a redundant amount of slugs who cant take reps on offence or defence as your major part of roster config.....You can have rotaional guys that can take reps with little to now drop off play teams tho....and rotate in....here's where we are slitting our own throats....we draft a lot with the sole purpose/idea of ST's....thats bad practice...and dumb.....Anyone can play teams at the pro level....especially if athletic....not everyone can play offence or defense and not hurt you tho...this is where we failing in a huge way now that our staring 24 and 3 key subs are not stacked anymore...or 3-5 yrs younger Demski too could barely run and should not have been out there that game cause....he been here 3 yrs now.....most likely.... we dont turn our de's loose anymore....and when you have no push in the middle with half your dline interior.....then no reason for the qb to try and escape and get swallowed up off the edge...he either steps up and finds a second or 3rd read....or just hits the primary guy on a quick toss unabated.....when we were kicking butt and looking like a all-time defensive unit...we Had our 2 end letting loose with 2 other ends spelling them off...and guys like Nevis...stove...Sayles casuing issues inside with a sprinkling of Jake....and even in his "prime" he lacked a lot Now we have 2 ends who get no rotation....Jake getting majority of inside reps and sporadic use of the 2 legit DT's....and people wonder why we get zero pressure....no sacks...and at times QB's seem to just sit back and pick apart 8-9 guys in coverage 100 percent

You need to atleast be able to create pressures and push/collapse the pocket with your front. That also ensures that if you send extra rushers, the pocket time will be very small. Defence these days are heavily reliant on disruption. We aren’t doing that nearly as much as we did last year. We’re running a lot of 4-2 and 4-1, 3-2 is pretty limited.

But in comparison to the rest? I stand by my statement. He's the most noticeable. Really? Jake hasn't needed to take the kind of snaps he has for several years. Osh was always going to play him more than he should.

Agree. Korny too. Just doesn’t make sense. That’s true, but it’s also hard to project stats at DT. It’s not a high volume tackle spot in high reps. 2 tackles a game at dt in high volume is really good. 2-3 is extraordinary. The volume of our pressures and sacks thatve come with him in the field is crazy. Especially when with Lawson.

Yeah but collaros also sucks at the underneath passing game....

I think that where Mitchell would help as opposed to Sterns....Sterns isnt really gonna be a deep threat contested ball guy, nor do I see him excelling at crossers in the mid to intermediate area...or really as the trusted second down conversion/chain mover guy....Clercius has that covered Mitchell would garner attention and stretch things out a bit...and not just over top stuff, and with Demski and Schoen working their bread and butter prob leave Wheatfall with a lot of man to man stuff....Mitchell has the potential...and history of breaking stuff from anywhere....Don't really see that with Sterns....he's kind of just out there...and redundant....we need a twitchy/ burner type or a bigger physical guy who can win battles in contested situations and help in run game...Sterns does neither said all along too...Banking on Schoen as being the game breaker and your A1 guy again was a fools game barely a yr from ACL reconstruction. And paying him as such...which thankfully we are not would also been as about as dumb as re-upping ZC before seeing a good 6-8 games outta him

Our most impressive lineman athletically is Adams. Not sure we have a ton of evidence to give him flowers. He's got stats on like 2% of the snaps he's played. 0 sacks, 0 TFL's. He's not some unstoppable, transformative force even if he's an impressive athlete. Not disagreeing that he shouldn't get more reps, but not exactly willing concede to him playing more = more pressure from DL, more big plays from DL. So far he's an alright CFL player.

Our receivers are great if they are wide-open. Schoen looks quite limited. Only guys that really fight through contact are Clercius and Demski. Easy to defend us. Kill the vertical stuff, force our receivers to make plays underneath and beat zone. We can't.

Yup. Is anyone surprised when you see Thomas has over 50 more reps. I mean honestly it’s sad seeing Thomas trotted out like he’s some all star. Dude is single handily making us worse. And with Jefferson and his total lack of effort at times, this is no surprise. O’Shea puts all his faith in these guys and it appears they take advantage of it. I’d cut a couple to send a message. Jefferson might be top of the list honestly cuz if I’m another player seeing him coast most games, I’m not sure how I feel. I get 60 less reps but try my hardest every time. It’s kind of crazy. I don’t understand. This isn’t community club football. Not everyone deserves a spot. I always thought the idea was to dress the best 45 or so guys. We don’t do that.

I honestly didn't think Jake would be playing this much once Lawson was ready. Absolutely wild the snaps he's getting.

Your best lineman is adams and he's getting so few snaps. Embarrassing.

Just caught up on snap counts for the season...folks had asked in a different thread. 211 defensive snaps (including penalty plays were the play wasn't stopped early): Vaughters - 189 Jefferson - 182 Thomas - 144 Lawson - 129 Adams - 117 Kornelson - 26

Oh sure, but that's justification for the numbers only, not when you try and account for the age of the DEs. 3 or 4 years ago sure run those guys as the only 2 but now they don't have the legs to be out there all the time.

I'm going to build on @JuranBoldenRules points. Name a successful CFL or NFL team that didn't generate a lot of pressure and by extension sacks? We did in 19 and 21, Toronto did it in 22 and 24. Eagles just won a Super Bowl in part because of this.

I’m not defending that, nor do I like having 30 dbs/lbs and only six receivers in the lineup. That’s roster mgmt, which imo is different than direct player to play comps at the same position.

And jeffcoat missed a lot of time to injury so moving on wasn't necessarily wrong... but they definitely didn't put in a lot of effort trying to replace the DEs. Nor DTs. Trotting out Jake as if he's Doug brown ain't cutting anything. Jake was a depth guy at his peak and he's well past that now.

The justification is the scheme. With Younger they have no commitment to rush from the edge. They are disrupting QB eyes by challenging their reads in who from their D will be managing which routes and potentially who/where pressure might come from. They'd rather have a guy like Griffin out there as a hybrid at 3 levels than have 4 DL driving into the pocket/off the edge on a potential passing down. We're basically running a 3-4 defense in this era where DB's are LB's. Our only true LB out there is Jones or Gauthier if he's out there....It's basically a 3-1-8 if you're thinking about who might do what, for the most part those 8 are coverage players but they also will rush aside from the corners.

Biggest mistake they've been making from 2022 on is Willie Jefferson. Great luxury piece to add to one of the greatest CFL D's of all-time if you have the cap space. It worked for 3 years amazingly when he played about 2/3 of snaps. But he's not a building block. And especially as he reaches his mid-30's. Jeffcoat was the building block and they've never replaced him. They misread who was dominant, but I mean the whole world does with Jefferson because he's out there and obvious. Not that Jeffcoat could still play, but the role they needed to replace in the scheme to be dominant. Instead, Willie has got paid at each time his ticket has come up as his play is less and less effective without that dominant core in the front 7 around him. I am not a fan of Younger's scheme in comparison to Richie Hall's. We hardly turn the ball over, and we rely on coverage which is foolish. Even when you watch our DL play there's no attempt to get pressure from out side. Vaughters will rush B gap, Jefferson will twist sometimes and end up B or A gap, but from the edge they are just reading the QB to disrupt passing lanes. Any DE we've dressed for the past 2 seasons. It's basically a coin flip every week if it's going to work, but you see how even 1 or 2 guys having a bad game in the secondary sinks this scheme. Pressure is how you build championship defense, and if you're going to have one without the other, consistent pressure is way more impactful. If you have good players in the back end you'll probably never be worse than .500 with this scheme. But it's not a scheme that's going to beat another team that is in rhythm and playing at a championship level. We make no attempt to be aggressive at the line of scrimmage and are mostly trying to disrupt QB downfield reads while that QB basically knows they won't be pressured. Our team stats look decent right now, but we played the worst quarterbacked team by a longshot (BC) twice and Tre Ford.

I knew this would be the first argument brought up... and there's some validity tonight, but the 1s have looked very similar in the regular season compared to preseason and we can pretty much nail the roster that'll start as soon as camp opens so that shows me that osh has it written in ink from day 1 and it won't change. Honestly I want to see one person provide a good solid justification to having Ayers, a linebacker, as the only DE depth on the roster when our starters are 34 and 32 years old.

Quality of competition matters in preseason. Looking good for a quarter or half of a preseason game isn’t the only factor in who plays. None of us saw any camp to know how they looked over a few weeks of reps. They might be better, but the definitive takes we’re getting on this site are a little much. @DTonOB, do you have any pressures stats for last year and/or this year?