Please continue any discussion on wrestling here.

11 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

And before that he was a knock-off MMA fighter - Kama The Supreme Fighting Machine.

Maybe if Kama was a little better he could have convinced vince to buy the UFC as Shane supposedly wanted him to. The Kama character would have been roughly around the time of the first couple UFCs in their early tourney days

The UFC was in it's infancy at that point (only 5 or 6 events in the books by 1995) and wasn't for sale.  Shane didn't make a push for it for another few years (early to mid 2000's).

6 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

The UFC was in it's infancy at that point (only 5 or 6 events in the books by 1995) and wasn't for sale.  Shane didn't make a push for it for another few years (early to mid 2000's).

I get that but obviously there was some influence from MMA  even if UFC was in it's infancy on at least 1 character in the WWE/F at the time and maybe if it was done better it would have had more influence in the approaching attitude era and eventually convinced vince by the 2000's it was worth the purchase.  but that's all hindsight.

Funny youtube vid I found with Kama's debut against a jobber... Matt Hardy

 

Edited August 30, 20178 yr by Taynted_Fayth

Vince always found MMA barbaric and didnt think it would ever take off.  When Spike asked for his permission to air TUF after RAW (Vince had veto power), he felt UFC would never be a competition or take any of their audience so he said ok.

The Godfather only got over because he had gorgeous women following him around....

 

26 minutes ago, Brandon said:

The Godfather only got over because he had gorgeous women following him around....

 

Cut a good promo.  Not a great worker but worked within his limitations.  Charisma.  Work rate isnt the only thing that gets over.

Just now, The Unknown Poster said:

Cut a good promo.  Not a great worker but worked within his limitations.  Charisma.  Work rate isnt the only thing that gets over.

But was it a good promo,  it was the same promo over and over again.     People only enjoyed the hoe train.  

Decent worker and his feuds were all light hearted.   I definitely did not see him as a  HOF caliber talent though.. that was weird. 

16 minutes ago, Brandon said:

But was it a good promo,  it was the same promo over and over again.     People only enjoyed the hoe train.  

Decent worker and his feuds were all light hearted.   I definitely did not see him as a  HOF caliber talent though.. that was weird. 

People liked the ho-train and the character and everything that went along with it.  Keep in mind the main audience at the time was adolescent boys.

Either way, he was a huge part of the attitude era and absolutely HoF-worthy.  If you had to pick five wrestlers who defined that era, he would be one of them.

yes it was the same promo but the crowd loved the easy to mimmic catch phrase.  And of course, the women.

Once Koko Ware went into the HOF, everyone was qualified lol  They will put guys like that in, because he was a star during the Attitude era and because he had a long career and because he is friends with the right people.

Let's not forget that the WWE HoF isn't about wrestling ability or championships or any other tangible quality.  It's about popularity first and foremost.

Watched Enzo last night on 205 Live. He looked totally outclassed talent wise  & the other wrestlers were mocking him. Don't know if it's a shoot but I think his career in WWE is in trouble because of his big mouth & attitude.

Enzo is insanely over and draws ratings. Hes going nowhere. He might suck in the ring, so did Hogan.. He might be a pain in the ass backstage, so was HBK.. But hes insanely over. 

15 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Enzo is insanely over and draws ratings. Hes going nowhere. He might suck in the ring, so did Hogan.. He might be a pain in the ass backstage, so was HBK.. But hes insanely over. 

If his merch sales drop, he'll be gone. That's the only thing keeping him around. Will the fans make him be over if he sucks in 205 Live? I don't think so.

Hogan was a big man with a shtick but he never annoyed anyone backstage other than than Randy Savage. He was,"The Real American" & the fans loved him for 15 years. HBK could wrestle & always put his ass on the line in the ring.  he never took a night off. Both were respected in the locker room while Enzo apparently isn't. I don't think you can compare so,meone like Enzo to Michaels or Hogan.

10 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The ironic thing about Papa Shango is, the performer had obvious charisma but got stuck with a lousy gimmick (I believe he came up with it somewhere else first, maybe Memphis?).  But once he was given the Godfather, he was super over.

Papa Godfather as "The Soultaker" in Memphis. His tag partner in this match had a pretty decent career as well.

 

6 hours ago, Atomic said:

People liked the ho-train and the character and everything that went along with it.  Keep in mind the main audience at the time was adolescent boys.

Either way, he was a huge part of the attitude era and absolutely HoF-worthy.  If you had to pick five wrestlers who defined that era, he would be one of them.

5 wrestlers?    

I'd easily have  Rock,  Austin,  Mankind,  HHH,  Micheals,  Angle, Edge, Christian,  Hardy Boys ,  New Age Outlaws etc... way more guys that truly defined that era.   

I barely would put Godfather over Flash Funk lol.   He'd be on par with 2 Cool and Rikishi for comic side relief gimmicks that lasted longer then a year lol. 

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

5 wrestlers?    

I'd easily have  Rock,  Austin,  Mankind,  HHH,  Micheals,  Angle, Edge, Christian,  Hardy Boys ,  New Age Outlaws etc... way more guys that truly defined that era.   

I barely would put Godfather over Flash Funk lol.   He'd be on par with 2 Cool and Rikishi for comic side relief gimmicks that lasted longer then a year lol. 

Sorry, Atomic, gotta agree.

The attitude era IMO was defined by a couple things, not so much individuals. 1. An FU to authority (Austin vs McMahon) 2. Factions and "War" - remember the Raw is War slogan? 3. The monday night wars - where the inmates ran the asylums (NwO and DX)

The Godfather while capitalizing on the popularity of the criminal underworld - in this case Pimps and Prostitution, was never much of anything during this era except a mid carder. Interestingly enough he won the IC belt off Golddust and was schedule to lose it to Owen Hart (Blue Blazer) the night he died. Instead he lost it a week later to Jeff Jarrett.

My personal hatred of a character during the attitude era was the Biker Taker. I know that was more closer to the actual man not the character, but anytime you come out to Limp Bizkit as your theme song, you should be booed lol

**** there were a lot of good wrestlers in the attitude era.  You're right.  But still, as a kid in middle school, the Godfather introduced me to pimps and hoes and it was insanely popular.  That's one thing that I know is true.

There's nothing wrong with that, His character connected with you. So, you'll always have a fondness for him which is great.  The Godfather wasn't insanely popular. He was a mid carder. If he was insanely popular, he'd have been WWE Champ. That's like saying Dolph Ziggler is hugely over when in reality he's a mid carder.

Enzo has nuclear heat in the back.  Very poorly liked.  My impression is WWE is squeezing every dime they can out of him as fast as possible which probably isnt a good sign.  Being moved to 205 isnt an upward move either.  However, its a wise move to help 205 as Enzo is over and has charisma to burn.  He's probably safe simply because of his talking ability which WWE would not want to make available to anyone else.

But all it takes is for someone like Cena to say Enzo is a problem and and Enzo will be gonzo.

55 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Enzo has nuclear heat in the back.  Very poorly liked.  My impression is WWE is squeezing every dime they can out of him as fast as possible which probably isnt a good sign.  Being moved to 205 isnt an upward move either.  However, its a wise move to help 205 as Enzo is over and has charisma to burn.  He's probably safe simply because of his talking ability which WWE would not want to make available to anyone else.

But all it takes is for someone like Cena to say Enzo is a problem and and Enzo will be gonzo.

It's not necessarily a downward one either (see Neville).  Other then Cass for the obvious reasons,  Enzo doesn't have much of a fit on the big shows. He's too small to fight the big guys and not good enough of a wrestler to keep up with the mid carders. 205 (or NXT to get better) would be the only places I could see him.  Due to him being over he will get the Raw-205 spots so it's not like he will be absent too much if at all.  It might have been a short lived gimmick but I would have rather seen enzo become like a manager -  in the sense he starts up his "School of Hard Knocks: How to become a certified G" and takes in X wrestler here and there.  Maybe cause some issues with Titus Worldwide..etc

Cruiserweight is a big step down.  Its a step up for guys that otherwise wouldnt be in WWE.  But 205 doesnt attract a lot of viewers.  Good for WWE for continuing to support it though.  Enzo is so good on the mic and has so much charisma, he'd be a HUGE asset doing the mouthpiece role for someone on RAW or SD. 

Attitude era? Michaels? Really? Weird... He wasnt even around for it really... Maybe for a couple months but he "retired". 

Id say... Austin Rock Vince Mcmahon... DX without HBK... EC Hardys Dudleys.. But if you are including guys and gimmicks who were the definition of attitude era... Val Venis and Godfather definitely would be there. 

Well, to be fair DX really kicked off the attitude era.  And HBK had a huge influence even though he flamed out so quickly.  It came down to choosing between HBK and Hart and Vince chose HBK.  Hart didnt like the really extreme stuff of the attitude era so had Vince chosen Hart, chances are they dont go as far with the attitude stuff.  Also possible HBK leaves but he had a long term deal so thats doubtful.

But yes, Michaels missed most of it.  it was really the Hunter-led DX that pushed the envelope but Michaels was there for the start of it.