So what do we think about this?

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/08/us/south-carolina-officer-charged-with-murder/index.html

 

 

I have a few concerns.  Firstly, the cop was 100% wrong and the charges are 100% correct.  But I keep seeing the media making this a racial thing and there isnt any evidence that its racially motivated yet.  That concerns me.  The cop lied and manufactured a story.  But now it seems the family of the victim is too and that does a dis-service to the facts of the case.  The incident is bad enough without re-writing the victim as a saint.

 

Can we avoid riots in this case?

The fact the officer didnt know his rap sheet is actually a point in favour of the officer because he had no idea of the level of danger he was in.

Seriously? You think that it's more appropriate for a cop to immediately escalate to deadly force if they're less certain about how much danger they're in? Shoot first, ask questions later?

 

The fact the officer didnt know his rap sheet is actually a point in favour of the officer because he had no idea of the level of danger he was in.

Seriously? You think that it's more appropriate for a cop to immediately escalate to deadly force if they're less certain about how much danger they're in? Shoot first, ask questions later?

 

Yes.  That is, in fact, exactly what I wrote.  And it is, in fact, exactly what happened in this case.  Very good.

Actually what usually happens is directly relevent due to training and instinctive reaction.  The rap sheet is relevant because it goes to the nature of the suspect and his intent.  The fact the officer didnt know his rap sheet is actually a point in favour of the officer because he had no idea of the level of danger he was in.  The threat of being shot anytime you engage in a physical altercation with a police offer is relevant too.  Imagine if the Supreme Court came out and rules that officers cannot use deadly force to defend themselves against a physical attack, every suspect in the US would fight their way out of every attempted arrest. 

 

 

Good grief man.

 

This is useless already.

 

Try for one sec and just look at FACTS.

 

Leave out the Usually this or that... My experience thing..or the .... Imagine if this or that happened.

 

Just the FACTS

 

Dude ran..... Cop ran after him...... some tussle happened ( no assault because not even the cop says it )

 

Tazzer shot but didnt hit the guy. ( cop had tazzer )

 

Guy gets away

 

Cop shoots him dead.

 

Tape comes out and cop is fired and charged with MURDER and held without bond.

 

FACTS....  No ifs , buts or whatever.

 

Now as for this court thing about physically attacking.  Why bring this up?  Nobodys said that. The only person saying the cop was attacked is you.  Not even the cop says he was attacked. He said the guy tried to grab his tazzer and that it....  no fight...no attacking.

 

And if you want lets look at it.... Cops killing people for attacking them.....

 

England and Great Briton ....  How many cops per year kill a person?

Canada how many?

Australia?

​New Zealand? 

 

Pick any free country and look at the stats of cops killing people in this way.

 

I would bet its not even close. Id even bet you can add them all together and its still not close.

 

So why is this? 

How do you know those are the facts? You're leabing out one thing because of your perception bias. That suspect tried to disarm cop.

How do you know those are the facts? You're leabing out one thing because of your perception bias. That suspect tried to disarm cop.

 

Sry you are correct.....  The cop did say the guy tried to grab his tazzer.

 

I left it out because we dont know it as fact. We dont see it and neither witness says it....  Only the cop says it. Yet the cops also say they preformed CPR and tried to save the guy. But we know thats just not true at all. We see its not true. So why should i or anyone believe anything them cops say?

 

Bias to what?  Ive said over n over again the guy was dead wrong to run.....  still no reason to be shot dead tho. Thats why hes in jail and fired and held without bond.

Well really none of us know exactly what happened. That's tjr danger with partial video

Meanwhile, In Baltimore, male dies due to spinal cord injury while in police custody and the city decides to the riot and loot.  And they call this "protesting". 

 

Started with High School students deciding to "Purge".  Several police injured, some seriously.  Haven't heard of any of the cops shooting anyone though.  Sounds like remarkable restraint on behalf of law enforcement.

 

Many people in Baltimore, including those related to the original person who died, expressed embarrassment over the "riots".

 

In more shocking news, Baltimore police say they have a credible threat that three gangs, including the Bloods and Crips have joined forces to attack and kill police officers.

 

And this, to me, is why facts and not emotion must rule the day.  because there are too many people that take the position "what?, cop shot a black dude?  Let's go steal a TV."   or worse, throw cinder blocks at firefighters as they respond to calls.   That's not protesting. 

Meanwhile, In Baltimore, male dies due to spinal cord injury while in police custody and the city decides to the riot and loot.  And they call this "protesting". 

 

Started with High School students deciding to "Purge".  Several police injured, some seriously.  Haven't heard of any of the cops shooting anyone though.  Sounds like remarkable restraint on behalf of law enforcement.

 

Many people in Baltimore, including those related to the original person who died, expressed embarrassment over the "riots".

 

In more shocking news, Baltimore police say they have a credible threat that three gangs, including the Bloods and Crips have joined forces to attack and kill police officers.

 

And this, to me, is why facts and not emotion must rule the day.  because there are too many people that take the position "what?, cop shot a black dude?  Let's go steal a TV."   or worse, throw cinder blocks at firefighters as they respond to calls.   That's not protesting. 

 

Great job of highlighting the larger socioeconomic issues that have led to social and racial oppression that necessarily lead to the tragic and needless deaths of those held captive and controlled by the system.

 

That is the point you were trying to make, right?

 

Wait a minute....

 

Meanwhile, In Baltimore, male dies due to spinal cord injury while in police custody and the city decides to the riot and loot.  And they call this "protesting". 

 

Started with High School students deciding to "Purge".  Several police injured, some seriously.  Haven't heard of any of the cops shooting anyone though.  Sounds like remarkable restraint on behalf of law enforcement.

 

Many people in Baltimore, including those related to the original person who died, expressed embarrassment over the "riots".

 

In more shocking news, Baltimore police say they have a credible threat that three gangs, including the Bloods and Crips have joined forces to attack and kill police officers.

 

And this, to me, is why facts and not emotion must rule the day.  because there are too many people that take the position "what?, cop shot a black dude?  Let's go steal a TV."   or worse, throw cinder blocks at firefighters as they respond to calls.   That's not protesting. 

 

Great job of highlighting the larger socioeconomic issues that have led to social and racial oppression that necessarily lead to the tragic and needless deaths of those held captive and controlled by the system.

 

That is the point you were trying to make, right?

 

Wait a minute....

 

Nope.  Your sarcasm aside my point was about the losers that hide behind the "we have to do something" when they dont actually give a flying fig.  There are, I believe, three investigations on-going into the death of the victim.  But hey, a night of violence and looting will get to the bottom of everything.  And thats not a commentary on any ethnic group, it's a commentary on specific losers.

680 CJOB Sports @CJOBSports

#MLB announces tomorrow's Baltimore Orioles / Chicago White Sox game will be played at 2:05 ET & Will NOT be open to the public.

 

Wow.  I guess they need to get these games played but thats a crazy decision.  I respect it though.  Dont take any chances with the losers out there.  If things had calmed down, I'd suggest making it open to invited guests only and make those police, fire fighters, EMS etc, the heroes and victims in this awful few days of carnage.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/84562656/

The melee in Baltimore kind of shows how wise Charleston was in taking quick preventive action to charge the officer and avoid an uprising, they dodged a bullet.

 

 

Meanwhile, In Baltimore, male dies due to spinal cord injury while in police custody and the city decides to the riot and loot.  And they call this "protesting". 

 

Started with High School students deciding to "Purge".  Several police injured, some seriously.  Haven't heard of any of the cops shooting anyone though.  Sounds like remarkable restraint on behalf of law enforcement.

 

Many people in Baltimore, including those related to the original person who died, expressed embarrassment over the "riots".

 

In more shocking news, Baltimore police say they have a credible threat that three gangs, including the Bloods and Crips have joined forces to attack and kill police officers.

 

And this, to me, is why facts and not emotion must rule the day.  because there are too many people that take the position "what?, cop shot a black dude?  Let's go steal a TV."   or worse, throw cinder blocks at firefighters as they respond to calls.   That's not protesting. 

 

Great job of highlighting the larger socioeconomic issues that have led to social and racial oppression that necessarily lead to the tragic and needless deaths of those held captive and controlled by the system.

 

That is the point you were trying to make, right?

 

Wait a minute....

 

Nope.  Your sarcasm aside my point was about the losers that hide behind the "we have to do something" when they dont actually give a flying fig.  There are, I believe, three investigations on-going into the death of the victim.  But hey, a night of violence and looting will get to the bottom of everything.  And thats not a commentary on any ethnic group, it's a commentary on specific losers.

 

 

Perhaps the sarcasm was unfair. I have just grown very tired of the microscopic view of incidents that have come up in this thread that completely ignore systemic issues. 

 

The problem is that "if you don't want to get shot then don't run" or "looters are losers" gets to the bottom of absolutely nothing. And investigations into these incidents will, I have little doubt, teach us that if only more people obeyed the law we'd have less people getting killed, which, once again, gets us nowhere. 

 

 

 

Meanwhile, In Baltimore, male dies due to spinal cord injury while in police custody and the city decides to the riot and loot.  And they call this "protesting". 

 

Started with High School students deciding to "Purge".  Several police injured, some seriously.  Haven't heard of any of the cops shooting anyone though.  Sounds like remarkable restraint on behalf of law enforcement.

 

Many people in Baltimore, including those related to the original person who died, expressed embarrassment over the "riots".

 

In more shocking news, Baltimore police say they have a credible threat that three gangs, including the Bloods and Crips have joined forces to attack and kill police officers.

 

And this, to me, is why facts and not emotion must rule the day.  because there are too many people that take the position "what?, cop shot a black dude?  Let's go steal a TV."   or worse, throw cinder blocks at firefighters as they respond to calls.   That's not protesting. 

 

Great job of highlighting the larger socioeconomic issues that have led to social and racial oppression that necessarily lead to the tragic and needless deaths of those held captive and controlled by the system.

 

That is the point you were trying to make, right?

 

Wait a minute....

 

Nope.  Your sarcasm aside my point was about the losers that hide behind the "we have to do something" when they dont actually give a flying fig.  There are, I believe, three investigations on-going into the death of the victim.  But hey, a night of violence and looting will get to the bottom of everything.  And thats not a commentary on any ethnic group, it's a commentary on specific losers.

 

Meanwhile, In Baltimore, male dies due to spinal cord injury while in police custody and the city decides to the riot and loot. And they call this "protesting".

Started with High School students deciding to "Purge". Several police injured, some seriously. Haven't heard of any of the cops shooting anyone though. Sounds like remarkable restraint on behalf of law enforcement.

Many people in Baltimore, including those related to the original person who died, expressed embarrassment over the "riots".

In more shocking news, Baltimore police say they have a credible threat that three gangs, including the Bloods and Crips have joined forces to attack and kill police officers.

And this, to me, is why facts and not emotion must rule the day. because there are too many people that take the position "what?, cop shot a black dude? Let's go steal a TV." or worse, throw cinder blocks at firefighters as they respond to calls. That's not protesting.

Great job of highlighting the larger socioeconomic issues that have led to social and racial oppression that necessarily lead to the tragic and needless deaths of those held captive and controlled by the system.

That is the point you were trying to make, right?

Wait a minute....

Nope. Your sarcasm aside my point was about the losers that hide behind the "we have to do something" when they dont actually give a flying fig. There are, I believe, three investigations on-going into the death of the victim. But hey, a night of violence and looting will get to the bottom of everything. And thats not a commentary on any ethnic group, it's a commentary on specific losers.

Perhaps the sarcasm was unfair. I have just grown very tired of the microscopic view of incidents that have come up in this thread that completely ignore systemic issues.

The problem is that "if you don't want to get shot then don't run" or "looters are losers" gets to the bottom of absolutely nothing. And investigations into these incidents will, I have little doubt, teach us that if only more people obeyed the law we'd have less people getting killed, which, once again, gets us nowhere.

ok but what does rioting, burning cars and buildings, attacking police officers and essentially anarchy do to make things better? Im pretty sure if people stop running from cops, resisting arrest or attempting to disarm a cop then injury and death tend to stop happening...

what needs to happen unfortunately is proactive solutions.. vest cameras and recording devices,better training and testing of officers for mental issues and racist views... there is no other quick fix.. no magic trick to undo the Crappy situations American police departments find themselves in..

Our police in Wpg sure appear to have done an excellent  a job regarding the homeless men murders.

 

 

ok but what does rioting, burning cars and buildings, attacking police officers and essentially anarchy do to make things better? Im pretty sure if people stop running from cops, resisting arrest or attempting to disarm a cop then injury and death tend to stop happening...

what needs to happen unfortunately is proactive solutions.. vest cameras and recording devices,better training and testing of officers for mental issues and racist views... there is no other quick fix.. no magic trick to undo the Crappy situations American police departments find themselves in..

 

 

To answer a few of the questions...

 

Vest Cameras are much more tricky then people realize...  first of all it's ridiculously expensive to implement,   it's not something easy to tack on to a persons uniform and really if a cop is being malicious the camera could "malfunction" after a scuffle. 

 

Mental issues and racist views...  I took a course that discussed lots of this... did you know the people who ace these tests are usually psychopaths/serial killers.    Also clearly most people would lie... who is going to say "I hate colored people" and think that they will keep their jobs.

 

The solution is very simple... it goes two ways.

 

For Police - Need a larger budget , better training and for certain areas better candidates.   

 

For the public -  Need to be normal honest hard working citizens...  their's a reason why Winnipeg is so much better then say Baltimore.   Much less poverty,  the canadian culture is more laid back and not purely about "Getting rich or die tryin" like in the States.   

 

Long story short....  the police needs only a few things changed.... current society is just plain messed up in the States and if they want incidents like these to stop then the people need to grow up, get a job and stop being idiots.   Creating "Robocops" won't stop people from stealing and killing... 

Well really none of us know exactly what happened. That's tjr danger with partial video

 

 

The danger with partial vid is sometimes people try to fill in the blanks with .. Buts.... What ifs....  And im my experience.

 

We actually do know most of what went on because we see it and from witnesses have said.... We have no reason to not believe the witnesses but we do have reason to not believe the cops because we no they filed false reports stating they preformed CPR when we all can clearly see from the vid thats just not true.

 

Buts... What ifs,,, And in my experience can not be use in a court of law.  Only facts. 

Meanwhile, In Baltimore, male dies due to spinal cord injury while in police custody and the city decides to the riot and loot.  And they call this "protesting". 

 

Started with High School students deciding to "Purge".  Several police injured, some seriously.  Haven't heard of any of the cops shooting anyone though.  Sounds like remarkable restraint on behalf of law enforcement.

 

Many people in Baltimore, including those related to the original person who died, expressed embarrassment over the "riots".

 

In more shocking news, Baltimore police say they have a credible threat that three gangs, including the Bloods and Crips have joined forces to attack and kill police officers.

 

And this, to me, is why facts and not emotion must rule the day.  because there are too many people that take the position "what?, cop shot a black dude?  Let's go steal a TV."   or worse, throw cinder blocks at firefighters as they respond to calls.   That's not protesting. 

 

Thats not true dude,

 

You have just gone on for pages about emotion and not facts. That dude that was unarmed and ran? You went on and on about your personal thing. I tried to say this to you.

 

Your personal view played a huge role in our debate. You added in things.

 

The guy attacked the cop.... thats not any fact. Thats your view of what a witness said was a tussle. We dont see it. Cop never once said he was attacked. That was and is your view and nobody else..... Not even the cop.

 

The guys record?  Has nothing to do with the shooting. Cop had no clue the guy had any record. Couldnt have.

 

Cops can not just shoot anyone in this situation. Its a fact. Its murder,

 

 

ok but what does rioting, burning cars and buildings, attacking police officers and essentially anarchy do to make things better? Im pretty sure if people stop running from cops, resisting arrest or attempting to disarm a cop then injury and death tend to stop happening...

what needs to happen unfortunately is proactive solutions.. vest cameras and recording devices,better training and testing of officers for mental issues and racist views... there is no other quick fix.. no magic trick to undo the Crappy situations American police departments find themselves in..

 

 

To answer a few of the questions...

 

Vest Cameras are much more tricky then people realize...  first of all it's ridiculously expensive to implement,   it's not something easy to tack on to a persons uniform and really if a cop is being malicious the camera could "malfunction" after a scuffle. 

 

Mental issues and racist views...  I took a course that discussed lots of this... did you know the people who ace these tests are usually psychopaths/serial killers.    Also clearly most people would lie... who is going to say "I hate colored people" and think that they will keep their jobs.

 

The solution is very simple... it goes two ways.

 

For Police - Need a larger budget , better training and for certain areas better candidates.   

 

For the public -  Need to be normal honest hard working citizens...  their's a reason why Winnipeg is so much better then say Baltimore.   Much less poverty,  the canadian culture is more laid back and not purely about "Getting rich or die tryin" like in the States.   

 

Long story short....  the police needs only a few things changed.... current society is just plain messed up in the States and if they want incidents like these to stop then the people need to grow up, get a job and stop being idiots.   Creating "Robocops" won't stop people from stealing and killing... 

 

 

To me the problem with America is they take everything to the max. Every law and right they have is pushed to the limit. 

 

Ive sai before....  Have a look at other free countrys. Most are way more mello the there is lil violence and killing. Most are happy to live in a free county and work for what you want and live life.

 

America is a fast intense country. People are stressed out and on edge. 

To the Max is a very good point!  

 

Well really none of us know exactly what happened. That's tjr danger with partial video

 

 

The danger with partial vid is sometimes people try to fill in the blanks with .. Buts.... What ifs....  And im my experience.

 

We actually do know most of what went on because we see it and from witnesses have said.... We have no reason to not believe the witnesses but we do have reason to not believe the cops because we no they filed false reports stating they preformed CPR when we all can clearly see from the vid thats just not true.

 

Buts... What ifs,,, And in my experience can not be use in a court of law.  Only facts. 

 

Witnesses are among the least credible sources.  Many studies have been done on this.  Get ten witnesses to watch a crime and they will all have different descriptions of events and suspects.  It's human nature.  Remember when Vince Li killed that kid on a bus?  The witnesses gave wildly inaccurate descriptions.

 

You're right, facts are what's important.  The problem is, the media isnt running a steady stream of facts, they were running a steady stream of video that was turned on at the end of an altercation, and did not capture the entire thing.  The video is part of the story but is by no means the end all, be all facts of the case.

 

I dont know how expensive vest cams are but I'd argue that they are difficult to use.  This is 2015, Im sure they've figured out how to attach a tiny camera to a vest.  Many police forces use them.

 

As for the rioting, I dont think anyone is arguing that there arent deep rooted issues that lead to poverty, violence etc.  But show me genuine protestors amongst the idiots looting and committing violent acts.  I dont care how angry you are, every single one of those people should tossed in jail.  Where is the pat on the back of the cops for showing significant restraint.  How many of us, if armed and with the authority to use deadly force would not use it when under lethal attack or watching our co-workers under lethal attack?  Thats sort of the hole in the over-all arguing that cops are violent and racists...really?  So how many people did they shoot when thousands were trying to hurt and kill cops?

 

Some interesting things about Baltimore that deserve mention:  The mother caught on video marching her son home.  He was taking part in the rioting.  She saw it for what it was and physically removed him.  Good for her.  And Chris Rock tweeted a photo of a line of residents standing in front of the police, protecting officers from "protesters".  Good on them.  They get it.

Its very expensive for cameras... People never think about the costs of supporting them, cost of storage, infrastructure of storage, training, upkeep etc... Very expensive to do this.

Its very expensive for cameras... People never think about the costs of supporting them, cost of storage, infrastructure of storage, training, upkeep etc... Very expensive to do this.

You're not wrong:

 

Here's a Reuters story from last week

 

(Reuters) - A recent series of widely publicized police shootings of unarmed civilians has heightened interest across the United States in outfitting patrol officers with body cameras. But tight police budgets will limit how widely the devices are adopted, local officials and industry experts told Reuters.

 

More than a half-dozen companies are competing to supply the nation's nearly 700,000 sworn officers with body cameras, which can cost between $350 and $700 apiece.

(For a graphic on wearable body cameras, go to reut.rs/1FFe2LH)

 

In addition to the cost of cameras, expensive systems are required to process and archive the many hours of video footage produced by the cameras, and the cost of storing archived footage can dwarf the initial equipment costs.

 

A Reuters survey of the 20 largest U.S. police forces found widespread interest in the devices. But while 16 departments have equipped some officers with cameras or plan to do so, not one has yet been able to provide kits to all its patrol officers, the survey found.

 

In Boston, for instance, where body cameras are not currently used, police officials are interested but unsure that widespread deployment will be possible. “Cost is always a factor. Whether it is prohibitive or not remains to be seen,” said police spokesman James Kenneally.

 

Suffolk County, New York is the only one of the 20 departments surveyed that is not currently considering cameras. In a statement, the Long Island force said it will monitor the experiences of other departments, including their budget issues, before deciding whether to deploy the technology.

 

In Baltimore, where six officers have been suspended while authorities investigate the death of a man who suffered a fatal spine injury while in custody, a pilot program is due to launch this week.

 

But Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake has cautioned against moving too quickly. “We’ve seen in other jurisdictions around the country where there's been a rush to implementation and it has cost taxpayers millions of dollars," she said Monday on MSNBC's Morning Joe program.

But...I see it as somewhat of a red herring.  Im sure there were costs involved in outfitting patrol cars with cameras too and where is all that video stored.  We all know storage gets cheaper and cheaper.

 

We outfitted our nightclub/hotel with cameras at a time when no one else was really doing that.  My boss asked "do you want metal detectors or cameras?"  I said absolutely 100% cameras.  Way better use of money.  metal detectors in bars are useless (but thats another story).

 

Im on both sides here.  Technology exists to put cameras everywhere.  Put them in cockpits.  Put them on buildings.  Put them on street corners.

 

I went to London in 1997 and my cousin was a cop.  He gave me a tour of one of their surveillence centers.  It was unbelievable.  They could follow a person down the street.  Everyone cries "privacy" here.  But look at the homeless killer and so many other crimes, cops release pictures and video from private cameras.  No one bats an eye but they sure are glad to have that evidence when its needed. 

 

On the other hand, I dont think cops should be under an inherent level of mis-trust where they *must* have cameras to prove their conducted themselves appropriately.  I honestly think part of it is training.  i think there is the mentality of "do you want to go home tonight?" and it creates a heightened sense of "do what I have to do" whereas the public expects an increased level of heroics from police.  We often see heroic police officer.  But in the case of the Baltimore death, how many cops does it take to secure an arrest?  I've seen that a lot...its almost a pack mentality,.  Adrenaline flows and 20 people on scene want to be engaged and "helping" when really, it actually gets in the way.  You need to be very in control of your emotions, actions and environment.  We expect that of police though.

 

There are three investigations going on into the Baltimore death.  What the rioters and looters and criminals are doing there has nothing to do with protesting.