Shocking Development In Germanwings Crash - Pilot Locked Out

[SPuDS]

Only the overly paranoid don't see the benefits of a camera to record cockpit and pilots.. If it adds even the smallest bit of evidence to help investigators find out exactly what happened and ways to prevent it, why not use it? Smh.

[WBBFanWest]

Only the overly paranoid don't see the benefits of a camera to record cockpit and pilots.. If it adds even the smallest bit of evidence to help investigators find out exactly what happened and ways to prevent it, why not use it? Smh.

And only the blatantly naive think that they would actually be of any real use 99.99999% of the time. Smh. 

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

I'll also add that yes the FAA creates the regulations but they do not investigate crashes.  The NTSB has that job and they want cameras in the cockpit (and have for 15 years). 

 

http://time.com/3760716/germanwings-plane-crash-pilot-cockpit/

Thank you.

 

From the article:

 

Currently, the cockpit voice recorder allows investigators to listen to the cockpit. But without video, they cannot fully understand the actions of the pilots or make safety enhancements to prevent similar events from occurring in the future.

 

They can, through the flight data recorder and voice recorders, "see" exactly what the pilot is doing or not doing as the case may be.  Do you honestly think that looking at the pilot's face as he's doing something is going to provide that "aha" moment?  "See that sardonic smile he has when he turns off the autopilot?  Clearly he has murder on his mind..."  or "Hey, the video shows that he really did forget to lower the wheels.  I know that we had no voice confirmation that the wheels were down and that the flight data recorder shows that they were never lowered but with this video, now we know!" or  "Oh hey, look, he picked his nose right before it happened.  We'll need the FAA to immediately ban nose picking in the cockpit."

 

Honestly, if some in the NTSB want them, if seems that they can't really justify them or they would already be there.  The FAA doesn't fool around with safety stuff.

 

[The Unknown Poster]

CNN

 

Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz was hiding an illness from his employers and had been declared "unfit to work" by a doctor, according to German authorities investigating what could have prompted the seemingly competent and stable pilot to steer his jetliner into a French mountain.

 

Investigators found a letter saying that Lubitz, 27, wasn't fit to do his job in the waste bin of his Dusseldorf, Germany, apartment, city prosecutor Christoph Kumpa said Friday. The note, Kumpa said, had been "slashed."

 

Just what was ailing Lubitz hasn't been revealed. A Dusseldorf clinic said he'd gone there twice, most recently two weeks ago, "concerning a diagnosis." But the University Clinic said it had not treated Lubitz for depression, as some media reports have indicated.

 

 

***So, doctor rules him unfit for work.  Let's assume whatever the condition was, he was not going to be able to continue as a pilot.  He wants to die but cant do it himself so he sets the plane on it's crash course.  If true, wow, what a devastatingly cowardly thing to do.  I wonder what his thought was when he heard the screams of the passengers moments before impact.

[kelownabomberfan]

German magazine Bild has leaked the transcripts. Makes you ill. I wonder if these unbreakable doors on cockpits are really that good of an idea....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germanwings-plane-crash-transcript-reveals-passengers-screamed-for-over-five-minutes-before-plane-crashed-into-mountain-10142936.html

[The Unknown Poster]

German magazine Bild has leaked the transcripts. Makes you ill. I wonder if these unbreakable doors on cockpits are really that good of an idea....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germanwings-plane-crash-transcript-reveals-passengers-screamed-for-over-five-minutes-before-plane-crashed-into-mountain-10142936.html

Well Id rather have an unbreakerable door that inconveniences the very rare scenario of a suicidal pilot when the co--pilot is locked out then the more likely scenario of a terrorist or general nut trying to access them.  Although now that pilots can carry a weapon, the threat of being shot in the face is always there for anyone trying to gain access to the flight desk.

 

This incident raises a ton of questions and I dont know what the answers are.

 

This pilot supposedly was treated for suicidal tendencies years ago.  He battled depression.  He was ordered not to work and had a condition (believed to be related to his vision) that would result in him never flying again.  The knee-jerk response is "why didnt his doctor inform his employer" and one could make the case that in occupations like this, doctor's should be compelled to report.  But if that was the case, you create the potential for people to avoid getting medical attention for fear of their employer finding out, even if the medical situation isnt as troubling as this case, we all know there exists the potential for an employer to mis-use that info.

 

I've heard people say there should be a mechanism to take command of the flight from the ground.  Again, this creates the potential for a very negative situation.

 

I think we have to chalk this up to a perfect storm of events that are thankfully rare.

[kelownabomberfan]

Well Id rather have an unbreakerable door that inconveniences the very rare scenario of a suicidal pilot when the co--pilot is locked out then the more likely scenario of a terrorist or general nut trying to access them.

This guy disagrees with you:

Simon Calder

Thursday 26 March 2015

Andreas Lubitz: Knee-jerk reaction to 9/11 enabled mass murder

The ill-thought reinforced cockpit door has had catastrophic consequences

 

 

A leading aviation security expert has condemned the rules on cockpit access as a “knee-jerk reaction to the events of 9/11” – which, he says, enabled the Germanwings co-pilot to commit the mass murder of the 149 other people on Flight 4U 9525.

Philip Baum, the editor of Aviation Security International magazine, said: “From the moment it became apparent that the Germanwings flight had made a controlled descent… with no Mayday, one feared that either pilot suicide or a hijack was the cause. The ill-thought reinforced cockpit door has had catastrophic consequences.”

Andreas Lubitz used his expertise to lock the captain out of the flight deck of the Airbus A320. He knew that the procedures implemented since 11 September 2001 enabled someone on the flight deck to take total control.

 

Until the 9/11 attacks, most passenger aircraft had a fairly flimsy door between the cockpit and the cabin, because an attack on the pilots and a takeover of the aircraft was considered implausible. The 9/11 hijackers, armed with blades that they had taken through security, were able to access the flight deck and kill the pilots to take control.

 

After the terrorist attacks, airlines began to install reinforced doors. Costing hundreds of thousands of pounds each, they are intruder-proof and bullet-proof. The system includes a keypad that is intended to allow authorised crew to enter the flight deck if the pilots become incapacitated. But a promotional video made by Airbus demonstrates how easy it is to deny access even to fellow crew who know the emergency code.

With a flick of a switch, someone with ill intent can deny access for a minimum of five minutes. Given that it was several minutes after leaving the flight deck before the locked-out captain would have begun the procedure for gaining access, the co-pilot had time to carry out his plan to crash the aircraft.

 

Mr Baum said that the philosophy of aviation security was skewed too far towards preventing a repeat of the 2001 attacks. “Yet again our focus on detecting prohibited items, rather than negative intent, emphasises the excessive attention given to terrorism and our failure to address other threats to aviation security.”

 

Currently, the key procedures for the flight door are concerned not with locking but with the risks around its opening. A cabin-crew member is deployed to stand between the cabin and the flight deck, and the door is opened for as little time as possible.

 

Among UK airlines, Monarch was first to make public changes to its standard operating procedures. A spokeswoman said: “The airline has always practised an ‘eyes-on’ check at 15- to 20-minute intervals during the cruising phase of a flight – this is where the cabin crew enter the flight deck and check on the captain and first officer.

“All passenger flights will now require a member of cabin crew to stand in the flight deck when either the captain or the first officer leave the area for any reason.”

The Civil Aviation Authority is discussing new procedures with other British carriers. The chief executive of Lufthansa, Carsten Spohr, counselled against any immediate changes to procedures for his airline group, which includes Germanwings. He told a press conference: “My firm confidence in the selection, in the training, in the training of our pilots, in the qualification of our pilots, in the work of our pilots, has not been touched by this tragedy."

 

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/andreas-lubitz-kneejerk-reaction-to-911-enabled-mass-murder-10137173.html

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Im not sure what his argument is.  The cases of an authorized person being locked out of the cockpit are far fewer than reports of people trying to gain access (or heading in that direction). 

 

Alot of this security if designed to give anyone with nefarious intent a reason for second thought.  For example, sky marshals.  They arent on every flight but they could be and if you intend to cause trouble, you dont know which flight has an armed marshal.  A secure cockpit door makes it very difficult for someone wanting to gain access to do so.  Same thing with the change of thought process with passengers.  There will never be another hijacking in North America of a passenger plane for this reason - passengers were "trained" to comply.  Now they are trained to attack.  You'd literally have to fight every passenger on a plane before even thinking about trying to get into the cockpit.

 

If I recall, one of the 9/11 planes, the pilots had the cockpit door locked and secured and the hijackers were able to gain access by threatening to kill an attendant (and then did kill her I remember correctly), prompting the pilots to open the door.  This will never happen again. 

 

And ofcourse, worse case scenario, the pilot could be armed with a weapon himself.

 

Im not sure I see the argument against secured cockpit doors.  In the EgyptAir disaster, the captain did return to the cockpit.  The plane still crashed.  What would the captain have done had he got through the door? 

[kelownabomberfan]

 What would the captain have done had he got through the door? 

 

probably hit the co-pilot and incapacitated him.  The issue was that they were descending too fast and couldn't have pulled up in time.  This was the same situation as the fourth plane that crashed on 9/11 - the passengers stormed the cock-pit but it was too late as the terrorists put the plane in a nose dive.  Apparently the A320 doesn't allow you to do that.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKBABNL-DDM

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 What would the captain have done had he got through the door? 

 

probably hit the co-pilot and incapacitated him.  The issue was that they were descending too fast and couldn't have pulled up in time.  This was the same situation as the fourth plane that crashed on 9/11 - the passengers stormed the cock-pit but it was too late as the terrorists put the plane in a nose dive.  Apparently the A320 doesn't allow you to do that.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKBABNL-DDM

 

Its not impossible I suppose.  But again, we're talking about man vs man when one of them is intent on crashing the plane.  He would have to attack and subdue the co-pilot quickly enough to prevent the co-pilot from doing anything else to hasten the crash (like bank the aircraft upside down).  obviously, from the time the Auto-Pilot input was entered, there was time to recover but the co-pilot chose a rather "slow" method to crash. 

 

One method of recovering from a stall is to nose-down so it would surprise me to learn the A320 was not able to nose-down at a greater velocity than the co-pilot utilized in this case.

 

I guess my point is, in an imperfect system what is the best way to handle this?  It hasnt been reported if either pilot was armed.  My curiosity is, was the co-pilot planning to do this "no matter what" or did the opportunity presented by the Captain leaving cause him to do it?  Had the Captain remained in the cockpit would the flight have landed normally and perhaps the Co-pilot would have thought better of it and everyone live happily ever after?  We'll never know.

 

But again, in Egypt Air, both pilots were at the controls.  Plane crashed.  In the Fed Ex incident, only the fact there were two pilots saved them as one of them engaged in a severe fight for several minutes while the other, terribly injured, landed the plane.  The easy answer would be a return to three-man flight crews.  But technology doesnt require it and passengers wont pay for it.

 

I read one suggestion that called for an over-ride on the security keypad if one of the pilots and a senior attendant or two entered their unique code.  Another option to this would be an over-ride kept off the plane that when a crew member radios for it, it is provided.  Not perfect.  Rare situation.  No easy answers.

 

Certainly, if I was on this plane I'd like to have a fighting chance (like the passengers of the Penn plane) so I can understand your point.  Heroic efforts of the Captain to break through the cockpit.  Sounds like he did all he could.

[Goalie]

I'll say this, I don't really consider myself an expert, actually I'm not, i don't think any of us really are... What we tend to do is look at these incidents and think how can we stop this from happening? as a non expert on the situation who has only been on a plane like twice my entire life, ok 5 or 6 times if you count ones that weren't flying , I don't know what to do. Leave it to the experts really. They know best.

 

Reality is, if a pilot is crazy and wants to end it, theres nothing anyone can really do, instead of talking about what to do with the plane, the discussion should be.. how can a guy with mental problems be allowed to fly an airplane? It's not about reinforcing doors and putting bathrooms in the cockpit, it's about how the heck can you make sure that your pilot isn't insane really cuz you know what, can do what you want really but if the pilot or copilot wants to end it all, they can and theres nothing anybody can do about it. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I'll say this, I don't really consider myself an expert, actually I'm not, i don't think any of us really are... What we tend to do is look at these incidents and think how can we stop this from happening? as a non expert on the situation who has only been on a plane like twice my entire life, ok 5 or 6 times if you count ones that weren't flying , I don't know what to do. Leave it to the experts really. They know best.

 

Reality is, if a pilot is crazy and wants to end it, theres nothing anyone can really do, instead of talking about what to do with the plane, the discussion should be.. how can a guy with mental problems be allowed to fly an airplane? It's not about reinforcing doors and putting bathrooms in the cockpit, it's about how the heck can you make sure that your pilot isn't insane really cuz you know what, can do what you want really but if the pilot or copilot wants to end it all, they can and theres nothing anybody can do about it. 

[StevetheClub]

I'll say this, I don't really consider myself an expert, actually I'm not, i don't think any of us really are... What we tend to do is look at these incidents and think how can we stop this from happening? as a non expert on the situation who has only been on a plane like twice my entire life, ok 5 or 6 times if you count ones that weren't flying , I don't know what to do. Leave it to the experts really. They know best.

 

Reality is, if a pilot is crazy and wants to end it, theres nothing anyone can really do, instead of talking about what to do with the plane, the discussion should be.. how can a guy with mental problems be allowed to fly an airplane? It's not about reinforcing doors and putting bathrooms in the cockpit, it's about how the heck can you make sure that your pilot isn't insane really cuz you know what, can do what you want really but if the pilot or copilot wants to end it all, they can and theres nothing anybody can do about it. 

 

Simply put, because there is no objective test for depression, suicide, or any mental health struggle and a history of anything does not predict future behaviour. That being said, I don't know everything about him so I don't know if the professionals supporting him had a reasonable expectation that he was a danger to himself or others and should have done something to prevent him from flying.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

I'll say this, I don't really consider myself an expert, actually I'm not, i don't think any of us really are... What we tend to do is look at these incidents and think how can we stop this from happening? as a non expert on the situation who has only been on a plane like twice my entire life, ok 5 or 6 times if you count ones that weren't flying , I don't know what to do. Leave it to the experts really. They know best.

 

Reality is, if a pilot is crazy and wants to end it, theres nothing anyone can really do, instead of talking about what to do with the plane, the discussion should be.. how can a guy with mental problems be allowed to fly an airplane? It's not about reinforcing doors and putting bathrooms in the cockpit, it's about how the heck can you make sure that your pilot isn't insane really cuz you know what, can do what you want really but if the pilot or copilot wants to end it all, they can and theres nothing anybody can do about it. 

 

Simply put, because there is no objective test for depression, suicide, or any mental health struggle and a history of anything does not predict future behaviour. That being said, I don't know everything about him so I don't know if the professionals supporting him had a reasonable expectation that he was a danger to himself or others and should have done something to prevent him from flying.

 

They have to be careful about reporting too because it could just make people less likely to seek help if they feel their doctor is obligated to report back to their employer.  I think the obvious solution is regular mental health review requirements by the airlines and then they are in a better position to determine flying fitness.  In this case, his doctor did order him off work.  The question will be was it due to the reported vision issues or mental health issues?

[The Unknown Poster]

Article about providing crew with cockpit lock over-ride function:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/30/opinions/amar-germanwings-give-crew-key/index.html
 

Makes some good points.  I guess the counter-argument would be that the purpose of a reinforced cockpit door and pilot lock-out is that a hijacker cannot influence human beings to open it.  Whereas a pilot will be focused on his job and has a different way of looking at their responsibility for every soul on board, if someone else on the plane was able to open the door, a hijacker could threaten that person or others to compel the codes to be entered.

[The Unknown Poster]

Some new info from CNN.com

 

Dusseldorf, Germany (CNN)Video found in the wreckage on a French mountainside shows the nightmarish final seconds of Germanwings Flight 9525, reports said Tuesday.

 

Taken on a cell phone, the video "was so chaotic that it was hard to identify people, but the sounds of the screaming passengers made it perfectly clear that they were aware of what was about to happen to them," according to the French magazine Paris Match, which obtained the video along with the German newspaper Bild.

 

"One can hear cries of 'My God' in several languages. Metallic banging can also be heard more than three times, perhaps of the pilot trying to open the cockpit door with a heavy object. Towards the end, after a heavy shake, stronger than the others, the screaming intensifies. Then nothing," Paris Match reports.

 

The two publications described the video but did not post the video itself.

 

Lufthansa, meanwhile, announced that co-pilot Andreas Lubitz told told his Lufthansa flight training school in 2009 that he had a "previous episode of severe depression."

The airline is sharing that information and documents -- including training and medical records -- with public prosecutors.

 

Authorities have said Lubitz purposely crashed Flight 9525 into the French Alps on March 24, killing all 150 people aboard.

 

His girlfriend knew he had psychological issues but "did not know the extent of the problems," a European government official briefed on the investigation into last week's crash told CNN on Tuesday.

 

The girlfriend told investigators the couple were working through the issues together and "were optimistic" they could solve the problems; she was just as surprised as everyone else by what he did to the plane, the source says.

 

The girlfriend also told investigators Lubitz had seen an eye doctor and a neuropsychologist, both of whom deemed him unfit to work recently and concluded he had psychological issues, according to the source.

 

Lubitz complained about vision problems; the eye doctor diagnosed a psychosomatic disorder and gave him an "unfit for work" note, the source said.

 

 

 

 

Investigators are looking into whether Lubitz feared his medical condition would cause him to lose his pilot's license, the source said, adding that while flying was "a big part of his life," it's only one theory being considered.

 

Another source, a law enforcement official briefed on the investigation, told CNN earlier Tuesday that authorities believe the primary motive for Lubitz to bring down the plane was that he feared he would not be allowed to fly because of his medical problems.

Too stressed?

Lubitz told the neuropsychologist that he was too stressed with work, the European government official briefed on the investigation said.

 

The official said he was not aware of any suicidal tendencies reported by Lubitz to the doctors, but that investigators believe he was suicidal.

Airline officials have said that if Lubitz went to a doctor on his own, he would have been required to self-report if deemed unfit to fly.

 

The European government official also reiterated that German media tabloid reports that the girlfriend is pregnant or had major personal problems are all speculation and rumor.

 

The girlfriend and the co-pilot had not, as was widely reported by some media, broken up the day before the crash, the source said.

Official: Lubitz had suicidal tendencies

Earlier, a spokesman for the prosecutor's office in Dusseldorf, Germany, said Lubitz suffered from suicidal tendencies at some point before his aviation career.

Investigators have not found any writings or conversations where Lubitz shared his motives or confessed to any plans, prosecutor's spokesman Christoph Kumpa said.

 

However, medical records reveal that Lubitz was suicidal at one time and underwent psychotherapy. This was before he ever got his pilot's license, Kumpa said.

Kumpa emphasized there's no evidence suggesting Lubitz was suicidal or acting aggressively before the crash.

 

The prosecutor's office confirmed what some media outlets had reported about doctors deeming Lubitz unfit to fly, though there were no physical illnesses found.

Recovery efforts continue

While investigators search for clues to Lubitz's motivation, recovery workers continue the grim task of searching for the remains of those killed in the March 24 crash.

 

 

 

 

Lt. Col. Jean-Marc Menichini, Gendarmerie spokesman for the Provence-Alpes-Cotes d'Azur region, told CNN on Tuesday that a new path has been completed linking Le Vernet, a nearby community, to the mountainous ravine where the plane's debris is scattered.

 

It will be used by rescue teams to access the area, he said.

 

Capt. Yves Naffrechoux, also of the Gendarmerie unit, said Monday that the 1-kilometer path would cut down on the time it takes to reach the crash site considerably.

 

The trip will now take 30 minutes from Seyne-les-Alps, the staging post for the operation, with less walking involved and thus less fatigue, but also with fewer risks than helicopter transfers.

 

Two helicopters are still working in case weather conditions improve and allow them to fly, Menichini said.

The remains of at least 78 people on board the plane have been identified so far using DNA analysis.

 

Naffrechoux warned Monday that "it may not be possible to find the human remains of all the 150 passengers, as some of them may have been pulverized by the crash."

But French President Francois Hollande, speaking alongside German Chancellor Angela Merkel in Berlin, was more positive, saying that it should be possible to identify all the victims by the end of the week.

 

 

A simple stone memorial has been set up at Le Vernet, where grieving relatives of those killed have laid flowers and held prayers.

 

The opening of the road, which must still be paved, will eventually allow family members also to reach the spot where their loved ones died.

Authorities say there are some 26 families of six different nationalities in the area Tuesday.

 

However, Patricia Willaert, head of the Alpes de Haute-Provence district, told reporters that Lubitz's family was not among those to have come since the crash.

 

"There had been some rumors, but they have not come to the site," she said. "The family of the co-pilot has not come. We have no knowledge of information informing us of that."

 

Willaert said some 450 people close to the victims had already traveled to the area, with more expected to come during the Easter weekend.

 

"The priority has been to welcome them in the best possible way," she said. She praised the mobilization of local citizens, who spontaneously offered 2,000 beds to accommodate the victims' families.

 

German investigators and French criminal investigators are due to work together at the crash site Wednesday, Dusseldorf police said.

Medical record emerging

Much attention has focused on Lubitz's state of mind, with suggestions that he may have had mental health issues.

 

Lubitz, 27, passed his annual pilot recertification medical examination in summer 2014, a German aviation source told CNN. He had started working as a commercial pilot in 2013, said Lufthansa, the parent company of Germanwings.

 

An official with Lufthansa said that the exam only tests physical health, not psychological health.

It's unknown if Lubitz mentioned his problems on a form that asks yes-or-no questions about physical and mental illness, suicide attempts and medications. European pilots must fill out the form to be recertified.

 

Federal aviation authorities, not the airline, issue the form. The form is privileged information, and Lufthansa never sees a pilot's completed form, an airline representative said.

 

The airline would only get a "clear to fly" notice from the aviation doctors alerting the airline that a pilot has completed recertification.

 

Safety investigation

France's accident investigation agency, the BEA, said Tuesday that the ongoing safety investigation was focusing on a more detailed analysis of the flight history leading up to the crash, based on the audio recovered from the cockpit voice recorder and any other available data.

 

BEA spokeswoman Martine Del Bono told CNN: "A deliberate act by a man with a disturbed psychological profile is a possible scenario. The first step of the investigation is to describe more precisely what happened."

 

This will be based mainly on analysis of the cockpit voice recorder, to be supplemented by data from the flight data recorder if it is found, she said.

"But we will also look at other events with possibly similar scenarios, try to understand if there are systemic weaknesses which may contribute or facilitate such scenarios.

"We will in particular look at the cockpit door locking as well as the criteria and procedures applied to detect specific psychological profiles."

Lufthansa said in a statement Tuesday that it was canceling its 60th anniversary celebrations, planned for April 15.

 

Instead, the company will provide a live broadcast for its employees of an official state ceremony to be held April 17 in Cologne Cathedral for bereaved families and friends to remember the victims, it said.

[StevetheClub]

 

 

I'll say this, I don't really consider myself an expert, actually I'm not, i don't think any of us really are... What we tend to do is look at these incidents and think how can we stop this from happening? as a non expert on the situation who has only been on a plane like twice my entire life, ok 5 or 6 times if you count ones that weren't flying , I don't know what to do. Leave it to the experts really. They know best.

 

Reality is, if a pilot is crazy and wants to end it, theres nothing anyone can really do, instead of talking about what to do with the plane, the discussion should be.. how can a guy with mental problems be allowed to fly an airplane? It's not about reinforcing doors and putting bathrooms in the cockpit, it's about how the heck can you make sure that your pilot isn't insane really cuz you know what, can do what you want really but if the pilot or copilot wants to end it all, they can and theres nothing anybody can do about it. 

 

Simply put, because there is no objective test for depression, suicide, or any mental health struggle and a history of anything does not predict future behaviour. That being said, I don't know everything about him so I don't know if the professionals supporting him had a reasonable expectation that he was a danger to himself or others and should have done something to prevent him from flying.

 

They have to be careful about reporting too because it could just make people less likely to seek help if they feel their doctor is obligated to report back to their employer.  I think the obvious solution is regular mental health review requirements by the airlines and then they are in a better position to determine flying fitness.  In this case, his doctor did order him off work.  The question will be was it due to the reported vision issues or mental health issues?

 

 

Agreed. A culture that values seeking and receiving support rather than punishes it is also extremely important.

 

With respect to your last question, I guess I would say that while I can see how one may be viewed as being the primary precipitating factoring I would argue that chronic degenerative health conditions and mental health are necessarily intertwined.

[The Unknown Poster]

Good point.  There is also reports his doctor felt the vision issues were directly caused by mental health issues.

[New_Earth_Mud]

Now there is video leaked. Hope the families dont see it. 

[New_Earth_Mud]

Good point.  There is also reports his doctor felt the vision issues were directly caused by mental health issues.

 On CNN they were saying he didnt have vision issues.  It was all in his head.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

Good point.  There is also reports his doctor felt the vision issues were directly caused by mental health issues.

 On CNN they were saying he didnt have vision issues.  It was all in his head.

 

Thats what I mean.  I take the reports to mean he DID have vision issues but there was no physical cause.  It was mental.  But to him, they were real and he was having trouble seeing.

 

very interesting about the cell phone video.  I always wondered why that doesnt happen more often.  When I fly, i routinely take video and pics.  If I was going down, especially in a pretty controlled way, I'd be taking video.  And I'd be identifying who I am and what is happening.  And I'd try to send texts and emails and hope that even if they wont send due to where I am, maybe they will when the phone hits a cell tower.  I guess panic, fear and adrenalin might make me act differently ofcourse.

[New_Earth_Mud]

 

 

Good point.  There is also reports his doctor felt the vision issues were directly caused by mental health issues.

 On CNN they were saying he didnt have vision issues.  It was all in his head.

 

Thats what I mean.  I take the reports to mean he DID have vision issues but there was no physical cause.  It was mental.  But to him, they were real and he was having trouble seeing.

 

very interesting about the cell phone video.  I always wondered why that doesnt happen more often.  When I fly, i routinely take video and pics.  If I was going down, especially in a pretty controlled way, I'd be taking video.  And I'd be identifying who I am and what is happening.  And I'd try to send texts and emails and hope that even if they wont send due to where I am, maybe they will when the phone hits a cell tower.  I guess panic, fear and adrenalin might make me act differently ofcourse.

 

 

Some lady investigator says it happens all the time its just never leaked. They give the families the option of getting whatever they can off the phones but just about all never want to see it.

 

I dont think i would have any interest in seeing or hearing or even reading anything like that from a loved one. If it can help investigators then thats all good but i just cant see myself wanting anything to do with it.   

[The Unknown Poster]

Hmmm that's interesting.  While I agree it would be horrible to witness a loved ones last moments, if my loved ones had the state of mind to record something, especially if there was some sort of message, I'd feel honor-bound to view it.

[New_Earth_Mud]

Hmmm that's interesting.  While I agree it would be horrible to witness a loved ones last moments, if my loved ones had the state of mind to record something, especially if there was some sort of message, I'd feel honor-bound to view it.

 

I go back and forth with it. I dont think i could actually really know my decision untill god forbid something like this every happened in my family.

 

This whole thing is just really sad.

[The Unknown Poster]

CNN.com

 

Dusseldorf, Germany (CNN)Latest developments:

 

• Out of more than 2,000 DNA samples collected from the crash site of Germanwings Flight 9525, lab workers have isolated 150 DNA profiles, Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin told reporters Thursday.

 

"That does not mean we've identified" the crash's 150 victims, Robin said -- noting the recovered DNA found still must be compared with DNA submitted by the families of those who died in the crash.

 

• The recovered flight data recorder from Germanwings Flight 9525 was buried at the crash site in an area that had been searched previously, Robin said. A police officer found it by digging.

 

• Authorities have found some 470 belongings -- including 40 cell phones, which are very damaged -- at the crash site, Robin said.

 

Full story:

 

Analysis of a tablet device belonging to Germanwings Flight 9525 co-pilot Andreas Lubitz shows he researched suicide methods on the Internet in the days leading up to the crash, the public prosecutor's office in Dusseldorf, Germany, said Thursday.

 

Prosecutor Christoph Kumpa said that on one day, Lubitz also "searched for several minutes with search terms relating to cockpit doors and their security measures."

 

Police analysis of the correspondence and search history on the device, retrieved from Lubitz's Dusseldorf apartment, demonstrated that the co-pilot used it from March 16 to March 23, Kumpa said.

 

The search history was not deleted and also revealed searches concerning medical treatment, the prosecutor said.

 

While cautioning that there are still many holes in understanding Lubitz's motivation, the disclosures about his Internet searches show that he planned to do what he was going to do, a European government official with detailed knowledge of the investigation said.

 

In fact, the official said Lubitz's actions in bringing down the aircraft amount to"premeditated murder."

 

Lubitz is accused of deliberately bringing down Germanwings Flight 9525 in the French Alps on March 24, killing all 150 on board. Investigators have since focused on his health as they try to establish his motivation.

 

In another key development Thursday, recovery workers in France found the second "black box," or flight data recorder, from the Airbus A320, Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin told CNN.

 

It's hoped the flight data recorder will shed new light on exactly what happened on the flight.

Source: Lubitz was seeing multiple doctors

It is becoming increasingly clear to investigators that Lubitz was "very afraid" he would lose his license to fly because of his medical issues, a law enforcement source with detailed knowledge of the investigation told CNN on Thursday.

 

It's already emerged that Lubitz had battled depression years before he took the controls of Flight 9525 and that he had concealed from his employer recent medical leave notes saying he was unfit for work.

 

But the law enforcement source said that after a severe depressive episode in 2009, Lubitz relapsed with severe depression and stress in late 2014.

 

In the weeks leading up to the crash, Lubitz was shopping doctors, seeing at least five, perhaps as many as six, the source said, as he kept going from one doctor to the next seeking help.

 

 

The 27-year-old was having trouble sleeping, and one of the doctors he saw recently was a sleep specialist, the law enforcement source said. Lubitz apparently told some doctors that he was afraid of losing his pilot's license because of his medical issues.

 

The doctors knew he was a pilot and gave him a "not fit to work" notice, which he was apparently required to give to his employer, even though he didn't, the source said.

 

Officials have found doctors handled the matter the way they were supposed to and found no negligence on their part.

 

Thinking he would stay home from work based on the sick notes, Lubitz was prescribed a lot of medication, including "heavy depression medicine" that would have been "very heavy" on the body and "critical to a pilot," the source said.

 

However, the law enforcement source doesn't think Lubitz was using the medicine while working, because investigators interviewed a pilot he flew with the day before who said he was "completely normal" with no problem whatsoever.

 

Inside Lubitz's apartment, investigators found a couple of notes with only a few words, involving stress and his pilot's license, the source added. He didn't know if Lubitz wrote these down while talking to someone on the phone or wrote the memo to remind himself of something.

 

 

Lubitz told his Lufthansa flight training school in 2009 that he had a "previous episode of severe depression," the German airline confirmed Tuesday. Lufthansa is the parent company of budget airline Germanwings.

Opinion: What if my patient is a pilot?

Confidentiality issues

German officials announced Thursday that a new task force would look at issues including medical procedures for pilots and cockpit door locking mechanisms after the devastating crash.

 

The cockpit voice recorder revealed that Lubitz had locked the pilot, Patrick Sondenheimer, out of the cockpit before putting the plane into its fatal descent, said Robin, the Marseille prosecutor.

 

Cockpit doors on planes were strengthened following the events of September 11, 2001, making it impossible for the captain to force his way in.

German Transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt told the news conference Thursday that the task force would prioritize questions around the cockpit door locking mechanism and procedures for checking pilots' medical and psychological well-being.

It would seek to move quickly, he said, but would not make rash decisions.

 

The head of the German Aviation Association, Klaus-Peter Siegloch, emphasized issues around confidentiality when it comes to a pilot's medical records.

"The confidence our pilots have in our medical doctors is of high importance," he said. "I believe if there is a lifting of doctor-patient confidentiality, then possibly pilots will not trust in medical doctors and that will make the situation worse."

 

The task force will bring together government officials with representatives of the German airline companies, the German Aviation Association and the Federation of German Airlines.

 

What was mental state of Germanwings co-pilot?

Crash avoidance software?

With reports that Lubitz apparently ignored blaring cockpit alarms warnings to "pull up" as the mountains neared, there are new calls from aviation experts to develop and deploy enhanced crash avoidance software that could take control of an aircraft away from a pilot and steer it to a safe altitude.

 

The technology would work in a similar fashion to crash avoidance technology already used in automobiles if a pilot is incapacitated or ignores audible warnings.

The idea is not new. In fact more than 10 years ago following 9/11, Airbus, the manufacturer of the doomed aircraft, was working to d‎evelop aircraft crash avoidance software with tech giant Honeywell -- in part to prevent jetliners from being flown into large buildings or mountains. But the project was ultimately scrapped.

Recovery workers believe they have now collected all the human remains from the mountainous crash site.

 

French President Francois Hollande, speaking Tuesday, said that it should be possible to identify all the victims using DNA analysis by the end of the week, sooner than authorities had previously suggested.

Check out the latest from our correspondents