Zontar Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 What's to "close" ? the guy is already under contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 either Williams closes the Cats: "i'm not reporting. you may as well release me." or the Cats close Williams: "we won't release you this season, so you may as well get a big payday instead of sit, then we'll release you and wish you all the best" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Bluto, what if Kackert & Owens did the same thing? Would you still be so understanding & saying use an iron fist covered with a velevt glove? In this situation there was nothing to close. He is still under a valid contract. He's being a Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Bluto, what if Kackert & Owens did the same thing? Would you still be so understanding & saying use an iron fist covered with a velevt glove? In this situation there was nothing to close. He is still under a valid contract. He's being a Richard. Glad you mentioned that, buddy. Excellent examples of my principle: When the Chads contracts were up, Barker actually was in a weaker bargaining position than Austin is. Both Owens and Kackert had contract offers from the NFL (both Jets iirc) and were free to go. But Barker closed them on inking deals with the Boatmen... and the rest is GC history. Closers close. Everyone else makes excuses why they didn't close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnzo Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 I suspect that a penchant for big fumbles ... has cost Williams more NFL opportunities than a extra year of CFL football will. That said, I can't really blame a pro football player for looking out for #1. Even if it were Henoc or Chris Matthews or Chad Simpson or whomever. With a very few exceptions, the power balance in football in tilted ridiculously away from the players. Players can be cut at any time, so contract term is meaningless. The sport can cripple you for life. The average player plays for only 2-3 years, anyway. If you got a shot at making it pay, you gotta take it. If it came down to feeding my family vs. pissing off some fans, I know where I'd fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 But, I'm not talking about a new contract because Williams has a valid contract just like Kackert & Owens do. So, the closing part you refer to, I don't understand because Obie already closed Williams in 2010. No, I'm talking about Kackert & Owens saying they don't want to play anymore regardless of their contracts so they want out to explore more NFL opportunities. Or say four or five other Argos also expressed the same desire & didn't show up for camp or played during the season. Then how would you feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 But, I'm not talking about a new contract because Williams has a valid contract just like Kackert & Owens do. So, the closing part you refer to, I don't understand because Obie already closed Williams in 2010. No, I'm talking about Kackert & Owens saying they don't want to play anymore regardless of their contracts so they want out to explore more NFL opportunities. Or say four or five other Argos also expressed the same desire & didn't show up for camp or played during the season. Then how would you feel? right, but here's the thing: having a contract to hold him to is leverage. Austin had some and used it wrong. Barker had very little but played it perfectly. as for Williams not wanting to play there at all, well, that's Austin's job to persuade him to do so, isn't it? Khalif Mitchell didn't want any part of coming to Toronto and was adamant that he wouldn't... but Barker played that right. he called him every day and tried to accommodate his desire to play in Calgary (which didn't happen since Huf hates Toronto) while gently asserting to the press that he expects players to honour their contracts to the Argos... and worked on the situation and now Mitchell is in camp. closers close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 ahh yes, the great and powerful Barker, infallible as a GM, never makes a mistake and has amazing mind control powers and is able to make players do whatever he wants. The ticats were willing to give Williams a new contract, he decided to be an ass about it and demand his release, even going as far as to take it to an arbitrator to try and get out of it. Clearly he did not want to be in Hamilton, that's the major difference there. He thinks he'd be an NFL player if he only had his release and only his release is enough. You can call it whatever you want but the player has an ego on him that won't allow him to even consider the CFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 ahh yes, the great and powerful Barker, infallible as a GM, never makes a mistake and has amazing mind control powers and is able to make players do whatever he wants. The ticats were willing to give Williams a new contract, he decided to be an ass about it and demand his release, even going as far as to take it to an arbitrator to try and get out of it. Clearly he did not want to be in Hamilton, that's the major difference there. He thinks he'd be an NFL player if he only had his release and only his release is enough. You can call it whatever you want but the player has an ego on him that won't allow him to even consider the CFL. i respect your opinion (and iso's), but i see that as accepting excuses. i gave 3 examples of where a GM who is a better people-person and salesman (they didn't hang the reputation of Barker the used car salesman for nothing) got a better result. situations and people are always different, but looking back at Khalif Mitchell's 8 minute interview vowing never to report, he wanted a release, he wanted to pursue his NFL opportunities, he wanted to be traded to the team of his choosing... and yet Barker brought him in and it never went to an arbitrator. don't tell me Williams isn't easier to deal with than Mitchell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 right, but here's the thing: having a contract to hold him to is leverage. Austin had some and used it wrong. Barker had very little but played it perfectly. as for Williams not wanting to play there at all, well, that's Austin's job to persuade him to do so, isn't it? Khalif Mitchell didn't want any part of coming to Toronto and was adamant that he wouldn't... but Barker played that right. he called him every day and tried to accommodate his desire to play in Calgary (which didn't happen since Huf hates Toronto) while gently asserting to the press that he expects players to honour their contracts to the Argos... and worked on the situation and now Mitchell is in camp. closers close. Yeah, easy for Barker to close when Mitchell & his agent are answering the phone. Can't close the sale when the customer (Williams) won't take Austin's calls. But again, nothing to close as Williams contract was upheld as being valid by an arbitrator. So in reality, nothing to close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPuDS Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 What's to "close" ? the guy is already under contract. Bang on. Done. thread end. WIlliams is being a punk, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 I suspect that a penchant for big fumbles ... has cost Williams more NFL opportunities than a extra year of CFL football will. That said, I can't really blame a pro football player for looking out for #1. Even if it were Henoc or Chris Matthews or Chad Simpson or whomever. With a very few exceptions, the power balance in football in tilted ridiculously away from the players. Players can be cut at any time, so contract term is meaningless. The sport can cripple you for life. The average player plays for only 2-3 years, anyway. If you got a shot at making it pay, you gotta take it. If it came down to feeding my family vs. pissing off some fans, I know where I'd fall. Where's the delete button if you made a mistake??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 I suspect that a penchant for big fumbles ... has cost Williams more NFL opportunities than a extra year of CFL football will. That said, I can't really blame a pro football player for looking out for #1. Even if it were Henoc or Chris Matthews or Chad Simpson or whomever. With a very few exceptions, the power balance in football in tilted ridiculously away from the players. Players can be cut at any time, so contract term is meaningless. The sport can cripple you for life. The average player plays for only 2-3 years, anyway. If you got a shot at making it pay, you gotta take it. If it came down to feeding my family vs. pissing off some fans, I know where I'd fall. What shot??? The guy has no shot. There's no offers from the NFL coming his way. And there won't be because he's under contract. He's sitting at home picking his nose NOT BEING PAID so he isn't taking care of his family as he's a punk ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zontar Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 What shot??? The guy has no shot. There's no offers from the NFL coming his way. And there won't be because he's under contract. He's sitting at home picking his nose NOT BEING PAID so he isn't taking care of his family as he's a punk ass. Rumour is he has one offer on the table which fuelled his urgency in bailing on HAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Rumour is he has one offer on the table which fuelled his urgency in bailing on HAM. I would be very surprised if the NFL would be trying to steal guys under contract. They don't do business like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 The Hamilton Spectator's Drew Edwards & Steve Milton outline how the Chris Williams contract arbitration could have long lasting & serious effects for all CFL teams. Link: http://scratchingpost.thespec.com/2013/06/milton-williams-case-raises-important-issues-for-ticats-and-the-cfl.html The comments by Austin about what Williams would have to do if he reported were strange in a way. He says that Williams would have to prove to the coaches that he wants to be there and address his teammates. So if Williams were to report and tell the coaches that he doesn't want to be there, what are the Ticats going to do. They could send him home but they would have to pay him or they would have to release him or try to trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I don't find the comments strange at all given William's behaviour. He'll have to apologize & commit to the Ti Cats for the rest of the season. To me, that is a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I don't find the comments strange at all given William's behaviour. He'll have to apologize & commit to the Ti Cats for the rest of the season. To me, that is a given. I was commenting on what the Ticats' options would be if Williams reported and told them he didn't want to be there but would honour his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I was commenting on what the Ticats' options would be if Williams reported and told them he didn't want to be there but would honour his contract. Well you gotta assume that all that would be hammered out before he showed up. Lord knows they just wouldn't let him show up and be a bad attitude. iso_55 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Well you gotta assume that all that would be hammered out before he showed up. Lord knows they just wouldn't let him show up and be a bad attitude. Ain't that the truth... That's all the Ti Cats need is a self centred, selfish a**hole in the locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Well you gotta assume that all that would be hammered out before he showed up. Lord knows they just wouldn't let him show up and be a bad attitude. If he says he'll report but would bring the bad attitude with him they can tell him to stay home but they would have to end the suspension and pay him to sit out. Sure he doesn't make much but it would still count against the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zontar Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I would be very surprised if the NFL would be trying to steal guys under contract. They don't do business like that. It wouldnt be stealing if the contract was voided or he was released thus the little games CW and his agent played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zontar Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Ain't that the truth... That's all the Ti Cats need is a self centred, selfish a**hole in the locker room. Selfish, yes, A-hole no. He was , and probably still is, popular with the majority of players here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Selfish, yes, A-hole no. He was , and probably still is, popular with the majority of players here. Wait till the Cats start losing which they will. Then we'll see how popular he is in G Town... I mean, asking Sam Giguerre to step up his game? C'mon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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