Ottawa RedBlacks @ Winnipeg Blue Bombers GDT

[GCn20]

Just now, Booch said:

Part of problem in my opinion tho is the HC ability to actually evaluate and identify the talent too....he values some things that don't translate to success on the field, and for whatever reason feels the need to play excessive Canadians at times...and in key spots when not needed

If a scouting staff brings guys in and the HC chooses to keep and roster possibly inferior guys....then that's not on the scouting staff...Part of the issue here is after some yrs of futility, and almost getting canned Osh got some success with a loaded lineup (provided by the G.M and scouts) but then clinged to way too many and made some odd roster decisions as well and  we never really re-loaded or had actual transition pieces being groomed...and where we actually did...we let em walk....did we give the coach based on that initial success too much leeway in who he wanted...and didnt....and the G.M allowed it?....was it the G.M was lazy and had no balls and didnt see it, or question things?...I think It a bit of A...a bit of B....and Walter's should have played Boss a few yrs ago and sat his coach down and said....sorry if this isnt to your liking but we moving on from player A...B...etc...

And the part of the not playing up to snuff...well do some better coaching perhaps....or actual coaching....and if your staff beneath you isn't getting things done, then as the HC replace them...too much back slapping....buddy buddy stuff here....Thats a good thing to a point but you also have to be cut throat and cold too at times.....

I think it was the sum of the parts really...Buck started out well....but ZC was also a better QB then...with better pieces...when he started to degrade, and we had to use and integrate a lot of new bodies...and some guys with minimal to zero experience...Buck couldnt adjust his playbook, or his calls

Hogan now....is limited in what he can actually do, due to lack of experience and being a first time OC at the pro level....also think he has a bit of an ego that needs to be put in check....couple that with the worst receiving group in the league...and a less than 100 percent BO...well we getting what is to be expected....crap sandwiches

If we had a coach that was keeping inferior players on the regular for some unknown reason, we would see these players surfacing elsewhere and realizing their potential. I don't see a single guy we brought in that is making any sort of meaningful impact anywhere else. Can you name on guy who we passed on that is more than a rotational guy anywhere else? Therefore your theory that we are letting gems slip through the cracks isn't really supported by anything tangible. Not saying it isn't the case, maybe it is, but at this point that's purely conjecture.

[Booch]

Just now, GCn20 said:

If we had a coach that was keeping inferior players on the regular for some unknown reason, we would see these players surfacing elsewhere and realizing their potential. I don't see a single guy we brought in that is making any sort of meaningful impact anywhere else. Can you name on guy who we passed on that is more than a rotational guy anywhere else? Therefore your theory that we are letting gems slip through the cracks isn't really supported by anything tangible. Not saying it isn't the case, maybe it is, but at this point that's purely conjecture.

cant use that tho as a metric...Teams put time and money into their own recruiting and scouting....and won't dump their guys for others...thats how you also lose your scouting staff (Cyril Penn says hi)

I can see the thinking of that....but really it's a never will know...and for a lot of positions in the CFL players are pretty comparable across the board talent and skill wise....it's coaching and instruction that sets then apart....to even get a invite to even a CFL camp you gotta be able to play and have talent....and brains

So perhaps a lot of what ails us when we dont have a vet lineup in it's prime is our ability to coach and scheme effectively and get guys in right positions to be sucessful?....could very well be....Osh himself has said he at times has no clue whats going on in the locker room...and lets the guys sort things out themselves....maybe he needs to be more hands on now that he doesnt have the troops to self coach/police.....just spitballing but that is not out of the quation and making up a yarn

 

[Bigblue204]

58 minutes ago, johnzo said:

has there ever been a Bomber OC that MBB liked?  Looking at the recent OCs...

Marcel Bellefeuille -- emergency scrap heap guy, only competent option at the time, somehow hung on way too long

Lapo -- too cerebral, no killer instinct, bad playcaller.  QBs check down too often.

Buck -- ruined Streveler, predictable playcaller.  QBs go deep too often.

Hogan -- worse than Buck.  offence starts hot and ends cold.  can't make adjustments.  seen wearing backwards hat and sunglasses.

seriously, I don't think I can recall an OC who was good enough for this board.

I didnt like Buck as a player and I thought that might continue on with his coaching. And imo it did. We're passing no matter what, we going deep no matter what. Etc etc. His first year wasnt as bad as his 2nd. But the GC game last year was icing on the cake imo. 

Im not as down on Hogan as some. Hes a rookie. You're gonna have growing pains. I like a lot of what he does, especially with Streveler. 

[GCn20]

22 minutes ago, Booch said:

cant use that tho as a metric...Teams put time and money into their own recruiting and scouting....and won't dump their guys for others...thats how you also lose your scouting staff (Cyril Penn says hi)

I can see the thinking of that....but really it's a never will know...and for a lot of positions in the CFL players are pretty comparable across the board talent and skill wise....it's coaching and instruction that sets then apart....to even get a invite to even a CFL camp you gotta be able to play and have talent....and brains

So perhaps a lot of what ails us when we dont have a vet lineup in it's prime is our ability to coach and scheme effectively and get guys in right positions to be sucessful?....could very well be....Osh himself has said he at times has no clue whats going on in the locker room...and lets the guys sort things out themselves....maybe he needs to be more hands on now that he doesnt have the troops to self coach/police.....just spitballing but that is not out of the quation and making up a yarn

 

You can use that as a metric though, if we are passing on quality starting level talent other teams will gladly bring them in. Every team, no matter how much they scout, will not gladly take a quality player that slips through the cracks elsewhere. We've had numerous players that we've cut get looks elsewhere only to be cut again.

Edited yesterday at 05:27 PM by GCn20

[17to85]

38 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

if we are passing on quality starting level talent other teams will gladly bring them in

This is a terrible argument... teams in the cfl barely scout practise rosters of each other any more. Fact is their own American scouting is just as efficient. Hamilton is a great example. They hired a gm from the Bombers and he found a use.for tons of guys who didn't get as many opportunities here. Mostly with Americans you're looking at potential and it's the combination of opportunity and development that turn them into impactful starters. The crux of the issue here is that we never give guys those opportunities when there's an established vet in their way on the depth chart. It leads to stagnation. 

[GCn20]

15 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

This is a terrible argument... teams in the cfl barely scout practise rosters of each other any more. Fact is their own American scouting is just as efficient. Hamilton is a great example. They hired a gm from the Bombers and he found a use.for tons of guys who didn't get as many opportunities here. Mostly with Americans you're looking at potential and it's the combination of opportunity and development that turn them into impactful starters. The crux of the issue here is that we never give guys those opportunities when there's an established vet in their way on the depth chart. It leads to stagnation. 

Teams barely scout PRs of each other? Based on what are you saying this? Who says? I've seen umpteen examples of teams taking prospects released by other teams and getting good use out of them. We've had several players released by us get looks in other places only to be released by other teams. You are not arguing with facts in any way, shape, or form right now. You believe we are not giving players development? How so? Do you think that playing players that are not developed is the way to develop them properly? That is nonsense. Not one iota of your counter argument is grounded in reality.

Edited yesterday at 06:23 PM by GCn20

[johnzo]

On 2025-08-19 at 9:42 AM, GCn20 said:

Yes and no. Surely Collaros made some bad decisions, but mostly because Buck allowed him to do so. Sometimes and OC has to take the green light away and that was Buck's biggest flaw.  

My abiding Buck / Zach moment is the TSN turning point pick that Zach threw right after tearing up his finger in the 2024 Grey Cup.  That's one I'd like to dissect. Was that Zach gunslinging or was that play call intended as a deep shot?

 

Edited 4 hours ago by johnzo

[HardCoreBlue]

12 minutes ago, johnzo said:

My abiding Buck / Zach moment is the TSN turning point pick that Zach threw right after tearing up his finger in the 2024 Grey Cup.  That's one I'd like to dissect. Was that Zach gunslinging or was that play call intended as a deep shot?

 

Thanks for that memory Debbie.