World Politics

[Wideleft]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

The biggest issues for me with EVs is the charging time. Who wants to sit and wait half an hour to recharge whe ln filling up a gas tank is super quick? 

For commuter vehicles sure absolutely but I still forsee a lot of issues if you want to drive any distance. Also not super up to date on current technologies but I wonder about battery life in extreme cold.

We have to remember that most people drive less than 50 km in a day.  Plugging in to a level 1 charger (about $1500 installed) overnight is more than enough for most people.  I've commuted 200 km daily (round trip) for most of the last 15 years and I would still be fine with most EV ranges now.  Too many people are discounting EV's because of trips they rarely take.

Also, I've come around to thinking that EV range is not the issue - charging infrastructure is.  Hydro runs to almost every population centre in Canada and there is no reason we can't have charging stations everywhere except for a lack of imagination and will.  The Manitoba Government and Hydro are blowing a huge opportunity to become the monopoly that powers our vehicles and futureproof Hydro for the next few decades.

There is no doubt in my mind that my next vehicle will be an EV.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Wideleft

[17to85]

11 minutes ago, Mark F said:

heres an example of the power of oil in Alberta.

 

"A doctor servicing the community of Fort Chipewyan, Alta. (Fort Chip) has been fired and said he was given no explanation as to why.

Dr. John O’Connor made international headlines when he first spoke out about elevated cancer rates in Northern Alberta communities and believed they were linked to tar sands activity from toxins leaking out into the surrounding land and water systems. A claim that was later supported by a study partially funded by Health Canada.

“I am in shock,” said O’Connor about the sudden termination. “I am stunned. I got chest pain when I heard this. I’m very sad.”"

In 2007, four years after O’Connor sounded the alarm regarding his concerns of a rare type of cancer he noticed trending among residents in Fort Chip, Health Canada accused him of engendering mistrust, blocking access to files, billing irregularities, and raising undue alarm in the community.

The professional misconduct charges threatened his medical license with the Alberta College of Physicians and Surgeons, however O’Connor was cleared of all charges minus raising undue alarm.

Then in March 2009, the residents of Fort Chip released a statement in support of O’Connor and demanded that the remaining charge against him be dismissed."

 

https://www.aptnnews.ca/national-news/alberta-doctor-found-higher-rates-cancer-first-nation-communities-fired-health-board/

 

at this time chevron has managed to jail a New York lawyer who successfully sued chevron for an Amazon Indian tribe, whose home was destoyed by chevron.

exxon was licking its chops over russian oil when trump was elected. So exxon ceo rex tillerson was appointed secretary of state under trump.

 

their power is unlimited as far as I can see. The destruction they are doing right now.... staggering.

Flooding right now in australia..... 1000 year flood, hitting sydney.

 

 

Did you know? There are places where the MacMurray formation is eroded by rhe river naturally and the bitumen can enter the water ways naturally?

 

Now there are some lunatics up there for sure. Remember this is the county that flat out said they weren't doing business with any business that had a mandatory vaccination policy. That's less the power of oil and more the power of stupidity.

[Wideleft]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Oh no? You think we can't adapt as a species? When the population is billions and still climbing fast millions isn't that significant. The world is always in Flux. The most adaptable species survive and we just happen to be pretty good at adapting. Especially when we possess the brains and opposable thumbs to modify the environment to suit our needs. 

We're going to have to establish what "human survival" means in order to continue this discussion.  10 billion people?  1 billion?  50,000? 

What species (plant, animal and other) would you be willing to sacrifice to save humans?  

[17to85]

11 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

We're going to have to establish what "human survival" means in order to continue this discussion.  10 billion people?  1 billion?  50,000? 

What species (plant, animal and other) would you be willing to sacrifice to save humans?  

A population of sufficient size to reproduce.... or do you think survival means 9 billion people or something? Life has come and gone on this planet for billions of years. Pretending it's static is just silly. It is an incredibly dynamic system. Is pollution and all sorts of things making it harder? Sure but there's always something. Just adapt and keep on going in the new world. Won't be the same but nothing ever is.

[WildPath]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

A population of sufficient size to reproduce.... or do you think survival means 9 billion people or something? Life has come and gone on this planet for billions of years. Pretending it's static is just silly. It is an incredibly dynamic system. Is pollution and all sorts of things making it harder? Sure but there's always something. Just adapt and keep on going in the new world. Won't be the same but nothing ever is.

Except that we actually have the knowledge and ability to make a better future and avoid mass suffering.

[Wideleft]

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

A population of sufficient size to reproduce.... or do you think survival means 9 billion people or something? Life has come and gone on this planet for billions of years. Pretending it's static is just silly. It is an incredibly dynamic system. Is pollution and all sorts of things making it harder? Sure but there's always something. Just adapt and keep on going in the new world. Won't be the same but nothing ever is.

Soooo..... 10,000?  What kind of trees are in or out.  Any elephants in your future?

Human life is a snap of the fingers in terms of life on Earth, by the way.

[Mark F]

38 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

There are places where the MacMurray formation is eroded by rhe river naturally and the bitumen can enter the water ways naturally?

Idea:   Maybe that should have been taken into account when deciding where to extract and process the stuff, so that people, who lived downstream for thousands of years, dont get cancer from the operations.

[Mark F]

23 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Is pollution and all sorts of things making it harder

Making it harder. 
 

not for you obviously, if you think its overall worth it.

 

the rate of cancer, and other disease, among the poor people, living around the refineries in The American south, (who have no choice where to live, cause they are poor, )

Is much higher than average.

they should just buckle down I guess.

in general, oil burning is bad  for human health. pretty sure you can find the stats yourself.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Mark F

[Bigblue204]

51 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Did you know? There are places where the MacMurray formation is eroded by rhe river naturally and the bitumen can enter the water ways naturally?

Should I point out Oil and Gas propaganda every time I see some on here? 

Now before you get on my case, I'm not suggesting this DOESN'T happen. But I would bet a large sum of money that it doesn't happen in the quantities it would take to create a cancer issue for an entire community.

26 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

A population of sufficient size to reproduce.... or do you think survival means 9 billion people or something? Life has come and gone on this planet for billions of years. Pretending it's static is just silly. It is an incredibly dynamic system. Is pollution and all sorts of things making it harder? Sure but there's always something. Just adapt and keep on going in the new world. Won't be the same but nothing ever is.

 I've already said it a bunch...so I'm going to assume you know what I mean by making this bold lol.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Bigblue204

[blue_gold_84]

22 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Life has come and gone on this planet for billions of years.

That's somewhat irrelevant. The difference now (the Holocene Epoch) is the loss of life is a direct result of our activities as species. We're accelerating the extinction level event by our own hand.

[17to85]

13 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

That's somewhat irrelevant. The difference now (the Holocene Epoch) is the loss of life is a direct result of our activities as species. We're accelerating the extinction level event by our own hand.

Yeah and it's just one more chapter in the history of the earth. They're calling it the anthropocene now. In millions of years if there's any species smart enough to study geology they will wonder what caused all of this.

[Bigblue204]

9 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Yeah and it's just one more chapter in the history of the earth. They're calling it the anthropocene now. In millions of years if there's any species smart enough to study geology they will wonder what caused all of this.

Then they'll discover their continent is actually a large floating pile of ancient garbage and understand what caused all of this lol.

[17to85]

34 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Idea:   Maybe that should have been taken into account when deciding where to extract and process the stuff, so that people, who lived downstream for thousands of years, dont get cancer from the operations.

They took into account where the best places to extract it are. I am just saying the stuff was discovered because it's exposed along the river. Upstream of this particular tribe by the way. Realistically as long as things are properly regulated and enforced (this is the biggest issue in my opinion) exposure from operations shouldn't be the issue. People get so up on no more oil! They get sanctimonious about it. Don't shut it down, properly regulate it.

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, Wideleft said:

 Hydro runs to almost every population centre in Canada and there is no reason we can't have charging stations everywhere except for a lack of imagination and will.  The Manitoba Government and Hydro are blowing a huge opportunity to become the monopoly that powers our vehicles and futureproof Hydro for the next few decades.

There is no doubt in my mind that my next vehicle will be an EV.

It baffles me why they haven't jumped all in and offer serious rebates and/or at least some kind of plan to get people into EV's and having charge stations installed at homes and at places of business.   

I'd assume lots of families would have the same mindset of having one EV and one long commute vehicle and would be all in using the electric vehicle during day to day going to work/school/errands.  

[Wideleft]

57 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

They took into account where the best places to extract it are. I am just saying the stuff was discovered because it's exposed along the river. Upstream of this particular tribe by the way. Realistically as long as things are properly regulated and enforced (this is the biggest issue in my opinion) exposure from operations shouldn't be the issue. People get so up on no more oil! They get sanctimonious about it. Don't shut it down, properly regulate it.

Based on the entire history of the Oil & Gas industry, I have serious doubts that this is mostly truthful. 

Also begs the question of what "best" means.  Ease of extraction?  Environmental Risk?  Risk to Public Health?  I'll put a $50 on number 1.

[17to85]

27 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Based on the entire history of the Oil & Gas industry, I have serious doubts that this is mostly truthful. 

Also begs the question of what "best" means.  Ease of extraction?  Environmental Risk?  Risk to Public Health?  I'll put a $50 on number 1.

Best means where they get the most oil for the least effort.

[Bigblue204]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

They took into account where the best places to extract it are. I am just saying the stuff was discovered because it's exposed along the river. Upstream of this particular tribe by the way. Realistically as long as things are properly regulated and enforced (this is the biggest issue in my opinion) exposure from operations shouldn't be the issue. People get so up on no more oil! They get sanctimonious about it. Don't shut it down, properly regulate it.

I agree with this. However at this point in time it's wishful thinking at the very best. Oil and Gas has infiltrated every level of politics mainly for the purpose of essentially regulating themselves. And we all know how that's worked out. Banking the future health of our water ways/planet etc on oil and gas being properly regulated is essentially insane at this point.

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

It baffles me why they haven't jumped all in and offer serious rebates and/or at least some kind of plan to get people into EV's and having charge stations installed at homes and at places of business.   

I'd assume lots of families would have the same mindset of having one EV and one long commute vehicle and would be all in using the electric vehicle during day to day going to work/school/errands.  

Mainly because of the grip Oil and Gas has on us, for this particular issue, on our politicians. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Bigblue204

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

It baffles me why they haven't jumped all in and offer serious rebates and/or at least some kind of plan to get people into EV's and having charge stations installed at homes and at places of business.   

I'd assume lots of families would have the same mindset of having one EV and one long commute vehicle and would be all in using the electric vehicle during day to day going to work/school/errands.  

Because it costs lots of money to offer these rebates to actually make a shift to EV.

Government makes lots of money from gas.

 

[Tracker]

8 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

I'm not talking about people choosing to not have babies...I'm talking about studying the fertility of humans regardless of there wanting children. There have been studies going on since the 70's that can directly link a societies use of oil to the reduction of male fertility. Yes all of the factors you listed play a role. But with the amount of oil we use and consume(like literally consume into our bodies) it is drastically dropping (specifically) the male fertility rate at about 1% per year...and has been since the 70s. This unfortunately means the average male today, is 50% less fertile than their grandfather. What this means for the future is not good (Obviously). And it very likely means having kids at all with be for the rich (fertility treatments are super expensive!).

Cooccurrence does not mean causality. There are excellent studies linking excessive or acute stress to decreased testosterone and sperm viability.  Women living with constant stress or acute stressors will often experience  amenorrhea, which will mean zero fertility.

There may be a link between petrochemical usage and reduced fertility but I am not aware of any such.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Tracker

[Bigblue204]

3 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Cooccurrence does not mean causality. There are excellent studies linking excessive or acute stress to decreased testosterone and sperm viability. There may be a link between petrochemical usage and reduced fertility but I am not aware of any such.

I suggest you look for them

[Tracker]

18 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I suggest you look for them

The Gulf oil spill, miscarriage, and infertility: The GROWH Study
Emily W. Harville,1,* Arti Shankar,2 Leah Zilversmit,1 and Pierre Buekens1

Purpose: To examine whether reported exposure to the Gulf oil spill (2010) was related to reproductive reported miscarriage or infertility.

Methods
1524 women aged 18–45 recruited through prenatal and Women, Infant, and Children (WIC) clinics, and community events were interviewed about their experience of the oil spill and reproductive history. 1434 women had information on outcomes of at least one pregnancy, and 633 on a pregnancy both before and after the spill. Generalized estimating equations were used to examine the relationship between contact with oil and economic and social consequences of the spill with postponement of pregnancy, miscarriage, and infertility (time to pregnancy >12 months or reported fertility issues), with adjustment for age, race, BMI, smoking, and socioeconomic status. Results were compared for pregnancies occurring prior to and after the oil spill.

Results
77 (5.1%) women reported postponing pregnancy due to the oil spill, which was more common in those with high contact with oil or overall high exposure (aOR 2.92, 95% CI 1.31–6.51). An increased risk of miscarriage was found with any exposure to the oil spill (aOR, 1.54, 95% CI 1.17–2.02). Fertility issues were more common in the overall most highly exposed women (aOR 1.88, 1.19–2.95), when the data were limited to those with pregnancies before and after. However, no particular aspect of oil spill exposure was strongly associated with the outcomes, and effects were almost as strong for pregnancies prior to the oil spill.

Conclusions
The oil spill appears to have affected reproductive decision-making. The evidence is not strong that exposure to the oil spill was associated with miscarriage or infertility.

[Tracker]

                                             

[GCn20]

22 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

The cognitive dissonance is stunning. I'd be more inclined to laugh about it if it wasn't derailing this thread.

An EV manufacturer getting gov't support is bad. An O&G producer getting gov't support is ostensibly okay because it's been that way for ages. The ****.

Im not sure if you truly understand what you read or you purposely distort what people say to try to reinforce your argument. To be clear, i do not support government subsidies for oil or EVs.

16 hours ago, Brandon said:

It baffles me why they haven't jumped all in and offer serious rebates and/or at least some kind of plan to get people into EV's and having charge stations installed at homes and at places of business.   

I'd assume lots of families would have the same mindset of having one EV and one long commute vehicle and would be all in using the electric vehicle during day to day going to work/school/errands.  

Even if every household wanted an EV tomorrow you couldnt get one. No auto manufacturer is within 10 years of that kind of production.

[blue_gold_84]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-war-russia-march10-1.6379527

Quote

An airstrike on a hospital in the port of Mariupol killed three people, including a child, the city council said Thursday, and Russian forces intensified their siege of Ukrainian cities, even as the top diplomats from both sides met for the first time since the war began.

The attack a day earlier in the besieged southern city wounded 17 people, including doctors, women waiting to give birth, and children buried in the rubble. Bombs also fell on two hospitals in another city west of Kyiv.

The World Health Organization said it has confirmed 18 attacks on medical facilities since the Russian invasion began two weeks ago.

The list of war crimes committed by Russian forces continues to lengthen. 

[Tracker]