TrueBlue4ever

Nah, he wouldn’t do that. He has class.

I read the 107 page report, though not in excessive detail. I did pay attention to the “meeting” section and what Cheveldayoff said. Which is not much. What I did notice is that none of the other parties referenced him in their discussions as being integral to the decisions. He was “just there”. So he had knowledge of an incident. How much detail is unclear, since the stories from that group diverge a bit. And some players say they knew nothing, others said everyone in the locker room knew. I suspect it’s closer to the latter, but it’s like a Peter Nygaard, Harvey Weinstein, Graham James situation where the rumours are out there, most people have heard the rumours and kind of “know” something bad is happening because of the number of stories out there, but have no direct proof, those who have direct proof are not coming forward, or when they come forward their proof is simply their word and they are a lone voice with no corroboration from other people, and those without proof figure someone else with more inside knowledge and power will deal with it. Chevy may not have known about the details, but he can’t deny he did not know there was a situation. But it was also said in the meeting that Bowman asked what should be done, Quenneville was concerned about raising the issue because he did not want a distraction during a Stanley Cup run (a terrible look, and one that should probably get him axed), and McDonough took Q’s side and told Bowman that he would handle it. Chevy and Blunk seem from those accounts to have just “been there” and not involved in any decision making, and it is generally accepted that McDonough said he would handle it. Now, when the coach is still around a few weeks later and lifting the Cup, logic dictates that this should have raised alarm bells with Chevy that nothing was being done. Can you fault him morally for that? Sure. Can you also understand his lack of action if he believes that his boss told the group that he would take care of it? Also yes. And when the guy was removed a couple of days later, would you be satisfied it had been handled, or would you dig further to see specifically what was done to ensure it was handled completely? Each of us will have a different stance on that based our own sense of responsibility and rationalization.

I bet if we dug hard enough into 3DN’s archives they too would have made unkind comments about O’Shea in the 2015 era.

Sports do not make us happy. They allow us to be miserable in a group. 🤣 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/07/17/uk-economists-prove-it-sports-destroy-happiness/%3foutputType=amp

Clever.

No it’s not. It’s filled with unsubstantiated speculation, misleading information, and flat out inaccuracies. At least it’s an attempt to create an argument using “facts” rather than the ridiculous “he’s arrogant, as proven by his arrogance” comment, but when the facts you use to bolster your credibility are factually incorrect, it kind of shoots holes in your overall argument. And if you need to make stuff up in an attempt to rip someone, then that deserves defending, in my mind.

Honestly, I don’t know which Bomber was more deserving of the POTW than the three named. Stanback had over 200 yards rushing, Lewis had 156 yards receiving and 2 TDs. Hunter had two picks. No one on offence for the Bombers had eye-popping numbers, and Jeffcoat’s two sacks might give him a chance, but turnovers are usually regarded more highly. I am more than happy with a dominant TEAM win than picking one or two guys and ignoring the rest who were equally as important in the win. There is only one truly important thing to win, and the Bombers plan to keep it in their possession on December 12.

As OC’s go, 1991 mystery coach, Kelly, Worman, Cartwright and LaPo were the only ones with a +.500 record. ‘91 guy, Worman, Cartwright, and LaPo only ones who never missed the playoffs. ‘91 guy, Worman and LaPo only ones who were over .500 every year. LPo only one with Grey Cup ring. Kelly and LaPo the only ones who were around more than 2 years to amass those totals. 6 years, 6 seasons better than .500, 6 trips to the playoffs, 1 Grey Cup win. Explain to me again how he didn’t win much? Or it was all on factors other than him, right? None of the credit, all of the blame.

1991 could not find 1992-96 Mike Kelly (54-36, .600, 5 playoff appearances, 2 Grey Cup appearances, 3 seasons over .500) 1997-98 Joe Paopao (7-29, .194, 0 playoffs, 0 seasons over .500) 1999 Bill Stewart (6-12, .333, 0 playoffs) 2000 could not find 2001 Rick Worman (14-4, .778, 1 Grey Cup appearance) 2002-03 Paul LaPolice (23-13, .639, 2 playoff appearances, 2 seasons over .500) 2004 Ron Lancaster Jr. (7-11, .389, 0 playoffs) 2005-06 Mike Gibson 14-22, .389, 1 playoff appearance, 0 seasons over .500) 2007-08 Kit Cartwright (18-17-1, .519, 2 playoff appearances, 1 Grey Cup appearance, 1 season over .500) 2009 Mike Kelly named a bunch of “special assistants” but had no OC (Andy Cox was running back coach and “offensive quality control” until he got sick and was replaced by Manny Matsakis, Richard Vinklarek was o-line coach and “running game co-ordinator” 7-11, .389, no playoffs) 2010-11 Jamie Barresi (14-22, .389, 1 playoff appearance, 1 Grey Cup appearance, 1 season over .500 2012-13 Gary Crowton (7-18, .280, 0 playoffs, 0 seasons over .500) 2013-15 Marcel Bellefeuille (14-33, .298, 0 playoffs, 0 seasons over .500) 2016-19 Paul LaPolice (44-28, .611, 4 playoff appearances, 1 Grey Cup appearance, 1 Grey Cup win, 4 seasons over .500) Kelly’s totals: 6 seasons, 61-47, .565, 5 playoff appearances, 2 Grey Cup appearances, 3 seasons over .500 LaPolice’s totals: 6 seasons, 67-41, .620, 6 playoff appearances, 1 Grey Cup appearance, 1 Grey Cup win, 6 seasons over .500)

I won’t try and get in the writer’s heads, and yeah they could come up with that weak excuse, but O’Shea took a good team and didn’t merely keep it good, he turned it into a monster so far ahead of the other 8 you need a telescope to see them. A team this dominant cannot logically be ignored (the key word being “logically”).

Edmonton put metal screws in their cleats. Rumour has it they either watered down the field as well or chose not to cover it and let it get frosted up and slippery, although that last bit is speculation and not proven. But the field was very icy either way. Bomber defenders were getting bloodied up from tackling and getting jabbed with the screws. A couple needed tetanus shots after the game because of it. The rule was if a player is caught with illegal footwear they were disqualified and kicked out. The Bombers repeatedly complained but the refs did nothing until the 4th quarter and the score already 60-1 or thereabouts. And then all they did was check the footwear at that point and usher the Edmonton players off the field to change shoes and then let them back in. Ron Lancaster after the game grinning like a Cheshire Cat saying “we would never do something so underhanded” to the press. Shalon Baker got picked up by the Bombers from Edmonton the next year and said absolutely we cheated in that game and were laughing in the locker room at the half for getting away with it. Cal Murphy was especially pissed because in 1994 against Baltimore Don Matthews got two Blue Bombers kicked out of the East Final on the third play of the game for illegal footwear. Apparently at half time the Bombers sent their equipment manager to Foot Locker in Edmonton to buy a bunch of baseball cleats for the team, so they would have hard plastic to punch through the permafrost. He arrived in the third quarter with the score 46-1, much too little much too late. Murphy refused to shake hands with Lancaster after the game. Edmonton put up 22 points in the 4th quarter just to rub it in.

Thought about that, but then the Leafs game runs up against the East Final, and the TV crowd won’t line that, especially the dozens of Argo fans watching. So I would guess no.

Also had a lot of success in his three times here, but that seems to be downplayed or flat out ignored by the haters (since you use fanboys). I thought a Grey Cup ring might be the tiebreaker between the problems and the successes in how he would be remembered. And as was said, isn’t WIN the name of the game? But it appears the bitterness runs too deep for some. Maybe you could give me your take on why you take the latter stance. Is it connected to Joe Mack, who if I remember correctly you were a big supporter of? Was it you who came up with IMWT?

Kavis Reed? What does he have to do with any of this?

I kind of hoped the point of the forum would include good discussion and debate and be more than just being dicks and kicking people when they are down. Cuz we seem to take issue with the Riderfans forum for acting that way and banning dissenting opinions, and took umbrage with Lyon’ Guy when he called us assholes (the more valid criticism was his backtracking to our face rather Han owning his stance). And I still think in some ways, this forum offers that, which is why I stay. I agree. The problem in this case with that logic is: - as an OC, he did not for the most part underperform here, and as a head coach he did have some success. But reading comments, you’d think he is useless and undeserving of any job anywhere, and ignores what he did so well, and the success he had (usually dismissed with “it was all the players”). And the. Adding stuff like “he’s arrogant as proven by his arrogance” is a ridiculous personal shot at his character with no substance to back the argument. so why no compassion for the guy who did win here, just because you were seemingly bored with his style of offence? - he isn’t here any more anyway, but the hating continues. We’re not suffering or “paying a dime” for his failures, so why care? Yet I read some of the comments and it feels like people want him to crash and burn, like he deserves it. People who have a problem with him should know that he is not our problem any more, so why keep harping on it? If I am missing the point, please enlighten me with a reasoned debate and I will concede. If you can’t muster up a good counter argument, or get past three sentences in a post, don’t use tldr as an excuse to try to make your point. And if you don’t like me personally or my style, you are free to just block me or not respond. No skin off my nose.

Given the amount of hate spewed his way even after he left and the constant bashing he takes in many quarters with some valid arguments but many overblown or just false, I’d say a good portion here do care. Even wish for his failure. I don’t get the personal anger and vitriol myself, especially since he helped end a 29 year drought here and I figured everyone on that team would at least get a pass if not a statue, but hey whatever makes people feel better about themselves I guess. And yes, I am being protective of him again because whatever his failings as a coach, he is a decent guy who gave a lot to the city twice in his time here. I like to remember that every time I want to scream “cut the bum” that there is a human being with a family who has a job that is by definition not permanent, and doesn’t need piling on from a bunch of keyboard coaches who revel in pot shots from the cheap seats to make themselves feel superior by saying “I told you so”. If he has a personality defect or moral character flaw a la Chris Jones’ lack of loyalty to a contract, Mike Kelly’s documented open disdain for media and fans, legal or professional cheating issues, or Joe Mack’s or Marcel Desjardins’ arrogance in the face of pure incompetence, have at it.

There is also a Jets-Leafs game at 6:00 pm that evening. Wade Miller is arranging buses straight from IG Field to Canada Life Centre but I don’t see TSN or Sportsnet’s home town hockey moving either game time to accommodate. So the Leaf bandwagon in Winnipeg will siphon off some fans as well.

So who should be there? Remember that writers will often look at stats when deciding and not necessarily overall impact in a system. And they typically have no clue when it comes to o-line so there they ask coaches. So who would be projected for the Bombers? Note the caveat that with 3 games left stats can change and drastically alter opinions. I’ll start with defence and Jefferson, Jeffcoat, Bighill as the obvious ones, Alexander has a very strong case and I can’t think of another candidate who would overtake him, but he doesn’t have the monster stats. Richardson has a decent shot given the talking up of him on TSN, and Alford and Nichols each have 3 picks and could squeeze in with 2 Riders (Gainey and Marshall) and Trumaine Washington in Edmonton if the voters don’t get hung up on being position specific. I love Mike Jones’ work, especially the sure tackling, but I think he might find it hard to squeeze in. Offensively, Collaros has the best numbers and is on the best team of any QB, so he is a given even if those numbers are not as grandiose as in other years. Harris’ injuries will keep him off the team and everyone get ready to flex and complain because Wilder Jr. may get a spot, especially if they have a two-back set instead of five receivers in the all-star configuration (Carey in Calgary has the inside track but Powell still in play). At receiver Lawler is in, and that is quite possibly it. Even though Demski has had a solid year and Bailey has responded exceptionally well to the early struggles and silenced the haters, there are too many “name” receivers on other teams with similar numbers who will likely surpass them. On the o-line, Bryant almost certainly gets another nod based on reputation alone, although his play absolutely warrants it. Hardrick is dependent on how long he is out. Who can say if the interior gets any notice - the o-line is a “throw darts blindfolded at names on a board and put them in” exercise for writers at the best of times. Special teams is always punter, kicker, return guy so although Mike Miller is due for a lifetime achievement award if nothing else, he won’t get picked. Grant will be hurt by the lack of kickoff returns since teams don’t score on us, so he won’t get it. Punters are chosen by average, so Liegghio is an afterthought there, and although Mourtada has the best kickoff average in the West by a good bit, kickers are chosen of field goal percentages and total points, so nah. O’Shea wins coach of the year in a walk, and Walters gets GM of the year no question, even Marcel Desjardins concedes that one, with Pinball in Toronto getting some votes.

A few more fun defensive stats to chew on. The pass defence has given up 3 passing TDs all year. 4 Blue Bomber receivers have at least that many. Meanwhile the Bomber defence has itself scored 4 TDs on passing plays (2 interception returns for TDs, and 2 fumble recoveries on QB sacks returned for TDs). The run defence has given up 6 TDs all year. Bomber back-up QB Sean McGuire has 7 rushing TDs on 24 touches. Of the 9 TDs the defence has given up all year, the 3 passing TDs were 11, 30, and 37 yards and of the 6 rushing TDs, only 1 was less than 9 yards. So arguably only 2 TDs against were not on “busted” coverage by the pass or run defence. Teams do not grind out touchdown drives against this defence. Of the 11 games played, the defence has given up 1 TD or less in 9 of them, including 5 with no TDs allowed. Of the 44 quarters the team has played, the defence has shut out the opposing offence in 23 of them. And finally, much has been made of the dominance of the Bombers in the 4th quarter this year, out scoring their opponents 106-6. In fact, in 4th quarters alone, Blue Bomber opponents have been outscored by the Bomber special teams returners (7-6 including converts), Nic Demski, Sean McGuire, Andrew Harris, Kenny Lawler, and Rasheed Bailey (12 points each), and even Marc Liegghio (14 points), Ali Mourtada (12 points), and Tyler Crapigna (8 points),

I prefer TP that isn’t already covered in s***.

And some others are mistakenly equating “not getting the reference” with “not thinking the reference is particularly clever or at all accurate”. 😉

So instead of the usual power rankings, now that the Blue Bombers are guaranteed the West Final at home, this week’s rankings will be based on who from least to most likely would give us the biggest challenge if we met in the playoffs. 8. Ottawa (eliminated from playoff contention) - non-issue, handled internally, next question. 7. BC - Michael Reilly can still be a game changer, is tough as nails, and if Lucky Whitehead comes back, gives them two big threats at receiver. But as long as they have no run game and that o-line, Bombers feast on them again. Outclassed in every way. 6. Saskatchewan - our defence has matched up really well with them this year, and Zach Collaros plays with an extra large chip on his shoulder whenever he plays his former team. Add a home crowd that will be jacked up against the Green and White more than any other team and their o-line woes, and the Bombers will have every tangible and intangible advantage for this opponent. Only fly in the ointment is that we have not faced Shaw Evans or Duke Williams this year 5. Edmonton - So they have actually given us 3 of our more sloppy match-ups, and their d-line has caused some problems for us. That said, we have beaten them by 10, 15, and 27 points. Might rank higher if I actually thought they might meet us, but that is a massive long shot. 4. Montreal - I have stopped trying to figure out what the Als are. They have been stomped by Hamilton, handled by BC and Calgary, and edged out by Toronto. They beat up what has turned out to be a bad Elk team, and had the good fortune of playing the RedBlacks thrice, and frankly should have lost one of those contests They also stole one against the Cats, but they also dominated the Argos and have new life with a new QB. The back-to-back with the Bombers should clear up their ranking fairly definitively. 3. Hamilton - So the “undefeated” team is a mere shell of itself, and we were in control of the last 57 minutes or our game against them. But still can throw a potential two-headed monster at QB out there, have the talent on paper, and would have home field advantage and a huge payback motivational card to play if we met them again this season. 2. Calgary - We might be luckier facing Bo Levi instead of Maier again, but if good Bo re-appears Calgary is as deadly as anyone And we know how tight they played us last time, and made our secondary look as ordinary as they have looked in any game this year. Having home field rather than a neutral site meeting if we meet them keeps them out of top spot. 1. Toronto - So you have to give the top spot to the one team that beat us this year. And even in their loss a week earlier, they ran the ball down our throats. Their lines on both sides played us tougher than any other opponent this year, and they figured out how to exploit our pressure with a quick pass game. Now, our best run stopper in Steve Richardson was not available then so that could change the whole story here, because without a balanced run game, and MBT instead of Arbuckle, our defence can pin its ears back and bring the heat.

The beauty of this team is how, especially on defence, we have played a rotational system, so going forward a platoon-style approach would (a) give everyone consistent reps so as not to get stale by sitting and not playing (b) get some extra rest and less chances to get dinged up to the usual starters, and (c) help our back-ups be ready to assimilate more seamlessly if (knock wood) a starter goes down. This is the luxury of clinching in week 11 that few teams ever get. I just remember Dave Ritchie always saying that the sitting of starters in 2001 was the worst thing he could have done and never again would he allow rust to set in. Even after losing Milt in 2002 in week 18 he stuck by that principle.

The all-time record is Calgary (15-3) in 1994 with a +343 when they scored a record 698 points for and 355 against. Just behind are the 1989 Edmonton “slurs” (16-2) with a +342 and hold the 18 game season record for fewest points allowed at 302 and scored 644 points. Joining the 1997 Argos (15-3) in 3rd spot at +333 is the 1957 Edmonton team (14-2) who outscored their opponents 475-148 in a 16 game season for a record +20.8 points per game differential. For context, this Bomber team is averaging a +16.2 point differential and pro-rated over 18 games would be on pace for a +291. The Bombers are out scoring opponents at a ratio of 2.41:1 right now. Notable teams from before 1958 (which is the starting point of the “modern” era when offences changed) are the 1948 Stampeders (12-0) who outscored their opponents 218-61 for a 3.57:1 ratio, the ‘49 Stamps (13-1) who outscored opponents 270-77 for a 3.51:1 ratio, and the aforementioned 1957 now-Elks with a 3:21:1 ratio. In the modern era, the only other teams I can find that outscored their opponents by a 2:1 ratio or better are the Edmonton dynasty teams of 1979 (12-2-2) who hold the modern day record at 2.26:1 (495-219 points for and against) and 1981 (14-1-1) at 2.08:1 (576-277 for and against), the 1989 Edmonton team noted earlier at 2.13:1, and the 1997 Argos who outscored opponents 660-327 for a 2.02:1 ratio. All of which to say, rare air indeed. We are witnessing a special team right now. Soak it in, these seasons come along once in a generation.

Third and not that close yet. At 66 wins, Cal had 86 and Bud had 90.