bb.king

Speedy, you can’t have it both ways.
You've advocated opening things up because you've had it with lockdowns. Understandable.
But, now you’re saying it’s irresponsible to have protests in what is probably a huge, potential turning point in American history. The biggest awareness by thousands and thousands of all races.
And yes, it does come with potential problems, but they’ve made their choices because they’ve had enough.
But why call the organizers socialists and communists and single them out for wanting change in a massive attempt to actually make a difference?
This shouldn’t be political. It goes beyond that.
Its about humankind and the attempt to right so many wrongs.
 

Collins is really concerned too. Really, really concerned. So much so, she keeps protecting him. Mukowski has done the same. 
 
It's all fake consternation, worried about their own re-election hoping to dupe the supporters again.

This is gold!
How Western media would cover Minneapolis if it happened in another country
By  Karen Attiah  Global Opinions editor May 29, 2020 at 3:57 p.m. CDT If we talked about what is happening in Minneapolis the same way we talk about events in a foreign country, here’s how the Western media would cover it. The quotes and those “quoted” in the piece below are fictional.
In recent years, the international community has sounded the alarm on the deteriorating political and human rights situation in the United States under the regime of Donald Trump. Now, as the country marks 100,000 deaths from the coronavirus pandemic, the former British colony finds itself in a downward spiral of ethnic violence. The fatigue and paralysis of the international community are evident in its silence, America experts say.
The country has been rocked by several viral videos depicting extrajudicial executions of black ethnic minorities by state security forces. Uprisings erupted in the northern city of Minneapolis after a video circulated online of the killing of a black man, George Floyd, after being attacked by a security force agent. Trump took to Twitter, calling black protesters “THUGS”’ and threatening to send in military force. “When the looting starts, the shooting starts!” he declared.
“Sure, we get it that black people are angry about decades of abuse and impunity,” said G. Scott Fitz, a Minnesotan and member of the white ethnic majority. “But going after a Target crosses the line. Can’t they find a more peaceful way, like kneeling in silence?”
Ethnic violence has plagued the country for generations, and decades ago it captured the attention of the world, but recently the news coverage and concern are waning as there seems to be no end in sight to the oppression. “These are ancient, inexplicable hatreds fueling these ethnic conflicts and inequality," said Andreja Dulic, a foreign correspondent whose knowledge of American English consists of a semester course in college and the occasional session on the Duolingo app. When told the United States is only several hundred years old, he shrugged and said, “In my country, we have structures still from the Roman empire. In their culture, Americans think that a 150-year-old building is ancient history.”
Britain usually takes an acute interest in the affairs of its former colony, but it has also been affected by the novel coronavirus. “We’ve seen some setbacks with the virus, but some Brits see the rising disease, staggering unemployment and violence in the States and feel as if America was never ready to govern itself properly, that it would resort to tribal politics,” said Andrew Darcy Morthington, a London-based America expert. During the interview, a news alert informed that out of the nearly 40,000 coronavirus deaths in the United Kingdom, 61 percent of the health-care workers who have died were black and or have Middle Eastern backgrounds. Morthington didn’t seem to notice. “Like I was saying, we don’t have those American racism issues here.”
Trump, a former reality-TV host, beauty pageant organizer and businessman, once called African nations “shithole countries." But he is now taking a page from African dictators who spread bogus health remedies, like Yahya Jammeh of Gambia, who claimed he could cure AIDS with bananas and herbal potions and pushed his treatments onto the population, resulting in deaths. Trump appeared to suggest injecting bleach and using sunlight to kill the coronavirus. He has also said he has taken hydroxycholoroquine, a drug derived from quinine, a long-known jungle remedy for malaria. Doctors have advised against using the treatment to prevent or treat the coronavirus.
Meanwhile, Americans desperate to flee will face steep challenges to cross borders, as mismanagement of the coronavirus and ethnic tensions in the country have made them undesirable visitors. But some struggling American retailers, like Neiman Marcus, are hoping to lure shoppers with traditional 19th-century colonial travel fantasies through neutral khakis and cargo shorts as part of a “Modern Safari” collection. “Utilitarian details & muted tones meet classic femininity,” reads a caption under the photograph of a white woman. Pith helmets were not included in the accessory lineup.
Some nations are considering offering black Americans special asylum. “Members of the white ethnic majority are forming armed militia groups, demanding their freedom to go back to work for the wealthy class who refer to workers as ‘human capital stock,’ despite the huge risk to workers,” said Mustapha Okango, a Nairobi-based anthropologist. “This is a throwback to the days when slavery was the backbone of the American economy. Black slaves were the original essential workers, and they were treated as non-human stock.”
 
Africa could be an ideal asylum destination, as several African countries have managed to contain the coronavirus outbreak through aggressive early measures and innovations in testing kits. Senegal, a nation of 16 million, has only seen 41 deaths. “Everyone predicted Africa would fall into chaos,” Okango said. “It is proof that being a black person in this world doesn’t kill you, but being a black person in America clearly can.” The African Union did not respond to requests for comment, but it released a statement that said “we believe in American solutions for American problems.”
Around the world, grass-roots organizations, celebrities, human rights activists and even students are doing what they can to raise money and awareness about the dire situation in America.
“It’s sad that the Americans don’t have a government that can get them coronavirus tests or even monthly checks to be able to feed their families,” said Charlotte Johnson, a 18-year-old Liberian student activist, who survived the Ebola pandemic. “100,000 people are dead, cities are burning, and the country hasn’t had a day of mourning? Lives don’t matter, especially not black lives. It’s like they’re living in a failing state.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/29/how-western-media-would-cover-minneapolis-if-it-happened-another-country/#comments-wrapper
 

It refreshing to see a company actually speak out against racism and white supremacy in such a forceful way. The statement was so direct, comprehensive and doesn't hold back. It also offers a history, explanation of systemic racism and also offers actual solutions.
 
https://www.benjerry.com/about-us/media-center/dismantle-white-supremacy
 
 

Long rant coming. Ignore if you wish, just need to get this off my chest, not looking for any response necessarily.
Let's just sit back and remember that 62,000,000 Americans voted for him last time. I was in Arizona in February when he held a rally, and there was a buzz around the city when he came in. He has disgusted and divided his country in the eyes of many within and many outside the USA but he is still popular with a large segment of Americans, and those he is popular with find him very popular. I suspect there will be less fence-sitters this election than last, and I would like to think that even the Bernie Bros. who are ticked about their guy losing to Biden will take a step back and realize that this election is all about "do you want Trump or not?"
Yesterday he crossed a line by declaring war of some of his citizens and utilizing the military to take control. That speech could be seen as very frightening if you accept the narrative that he has been pushing for a fascist state. There was no veiled text in his call for law and order against Antifa and all the other agitators who he sees as threatening his America. But if you accept the narrative that the fake media has been out to get him and the deep state has tried to take him out and sabotage him despite a legitimate election victory, then that image of him walking to re-claim sacred holy ground that had been vandalized by thugs the night before is a powerful unifying image, and the willingness to stand up to and dominate the bullies who tried to destroy the country and harm innocent Americans sends a message of strength, guts, courage. (Forget that he tear-gassed peaceful protestors to clear the park and had armed guards escorting him, his state-owned media at FOX and AON will spin it as quelling an insurrection).
If you believe that your America is great again once those violent black people (who proved it once again that they want to destroy all peace-loving whites with their actions, and don't respect law and order as proven by their attacks on the police) are put in their place, then yesterday was another triumphant stand against them, just like the election in 2016 was. It is chilling to write this, but even more chilling to think that what I just laid out is the mindset of 10's of millions of Americans right now, and not just the fringe elements. And if you don't subscribe to this view, then are you not more than a little afraid of how readily the police and military were willing to do Trump's bidding and clear the streets? Images of media being shot at, peaceful protestors being maced and tear-gassed and beaten with shields and clubs, people standing on the porches of their homes being told "get inside now" by military soldiers parading down the street in their Humvees, and then hearing "light 'em up" and getting shot at when they were already off the street (but not inside, so not good enough) filled my screen, but I think they will be drowned out by the "law and order" crowd who see this as justifiable and proper action to "dominate" the rebellion. These remind me of the images of the army moving in to Tiananmem Square - at least it would not surprise me if that's where this is headed.
But Americans, Dem or Repub, do like to agree on one thing - that America is the best nation in the world. They have loved to be labelled as cowboys, those brave individualists who stand up to tyranny and play by their own rules. It's mirrored in the slogan "America First". So I think that a whole lot of them give Trump not just a pass but an A+ grade for his action, because it reinforces how tough he is (and, by transitive property for his supporters, they are). There was a line in Captain America where the Red Skull said "I'm not sure if arrogance is a purely American trait, but you certainly do it better than anyone else", and I fear that arrogance has blinded many Americans from seeing what is really going on.
The ironic thing is just how blindly hypocritical Americans who follow Trump are too. Government should not interfere, but use all the force of the Government to control the people (at least those who don't line up with my ideology). We demand the cities open up and we have the individual freedom to go get a haircut, and will storm a capitol building with my AR 15 for intimidation purposes to get what we want, and no Government can stop us, but how dare those unarmed protestors speak out in anger about racial injustice in the wrong way with vandalism (although peaceful resistance by taking a knee at a sporting event without violence was also "the wrong way" so maybe it's the message and not the means that's really irks those who complain), and the Government should step in and stop it. The COVID lockdown is unconstitutional and my safety is my own business and my choice if I go out and risk catching or spreading the virus, but hey let's impose a nationwide curfew because I am in danger from those thugs, looters, Antifa, etc. My rights are enshrined in the Constitution, and no Government can take those away, but hey let's violate the freedom of the press, freedom of speech, and freedom of lawful assembly if they stand for something other than what I stand for, and let the Government use the full power of the military to facilitate the taking away of those rights.
The next "funny" irony will be the 2nd Amendment. "Patriots" have always bastardized the meaning of the Amendment to justify an individual's right to own automatic weapons, armor-piercing bullets, Kevlar, and the like to ensure their personal safety and freedom, when the original intent was to keep a well-regulated civilian militia to protect the country, and act as a police force when necessary, especially against a tyrannical Government. Well, if there was ever a situation that mirrored the original intent of the Constitutional Amendment, would it not be arming oneself to defend against Government forces (be they police or military) attacking unarmed civilians to "dominate" citizens in the name of "one law"? You wonder how quickly Trump would try to revoke that right if he felt their was a threat of insurrection from the masses who were prepared to fight his firepower with their own? And would his followers jump on board with that infringement on their liberty if they suddenly felt that perceived threat and abdicated their power to him? "My right to guns does not extend to someone's else's equal right to guns, because they disagree with me, so yeah the government can take away their guns and put in restrictive laws, I agree with that restriction because it's in my best interest (until it isn't its the part they don't see). Other dictators have been able to suppress freedom by armed force when necessary, without fear of reprisal because their citizens did not have the same access to weaponry that the Government did. In the US it's a whole different ball game. Wonder how that will play out?

That is true but misleading.
The population of the USA is comprised of (as of 2016) 61.27% of White people, 17.79% of Latinos, and 13.31% Black people. So yeah, there should be more White people shot by cops. The ratio should be roughly 6:1 - it isn't. It's closer to 2:1. 
In 2017, 457 White people, 223 Black people and 179 Hispanic people were shot and killed by police officers. That does not reflect the  61.27%/13.31%/17.79% ratio at all... there is a HUGE discrepancy in police shootings.... 
 
And yeah that is true- most people are swallowing the narrative that it is Anti Fa and angry leftist that are starting these riots.... that aint the case, no matter how much Barr is not willing to accept the truth that it is actually white nationalists being subverted by russian propaganda. I wish I was being sarcastic- but I'm not.
 

Michael Gallagher - infectious disease physician - Part 2
I think I can speak for a lot of medical professionals when I say, we don’t mean to be arrogant, we don’t mean to be jerks, but damn it, this bullshit is frustrating and yes, we’re going to clap back to ignorance. Ignorance is not something to be flaunted and there is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Ignorance is being uninformed. Stop being willfully ignorant and even reveling in it because it doesn’t fit your preconceived narrative or opinion. Even worse, stop pretending you’re not ignorant because you watched some damn YouTube video or read some op-ed piece. That’s someone’s opinion, normally based on nothing. NOTHING. No research. That’s not information. That’s not factual. That’s not based in science. It’s click-bait with the sole intention of riling you up and getting you to let your guard down. And instead of being pissed at the virus that’s causing all this, it’s to direct your anger at the government or doctors or anywhere else their agenda wants it directed.

Medical people are fired up for a couple reasons. 1 month ago, we were all heroes and putting our lives on the line because this was dangerous stuff. Well, I think I can speak for most of us when I say we aren’t heroic, we’re just doing our job. But guess what, we’re still doing the same damn thing we were doing a month ago and this crap still hasn’t gone away but now we’re “just trying to scare people” because “it’s really no big deal.” We aren’t looking for a pat on the back or even a thank you, we just want you to do what we all need to do to stop this thing and avoid the spread. Listen, if you think that my big fat ass enjoys sweating like a ***** in church in an isolation gown, walking around like Mr Magoo because my glasses are fogged up because of my mask, and wearing goggles that dig into the backs of my ears because I’m “just a sheep,” you are mistaken. It’s because I don’t want this virus and I don’t want to take it home to my family and I don’t want to infect my co-workers and other patients. We’re fired up because we’ve seen and even performed intubations. We don’t intubate for funsies. Outside of the surgical setting, an intubation is basically throwing a Hail Mary to save someone’s life. And when the mortality rate once that plastic tube slides between your vocal cords with COVID-19 is 85-89%, yeah, that’s terrifying. This virus is dangerous.

Lastly, stop being spoiled children about public health advisories. Stop bitching about wearing a mask when you’re in public places. Stop pretending that that is somehow infringing on your rights. Get over yourself. I wish all businesses would grow a pair and refuse service to people who refuse to wear a mask “out of principle.”
 
Police aren’t inclined to enforce it and that’s fine but, spoiler alert, private businesses have and reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. Don’t tell me it’s ok for a bakery to refuse service to a gay couple for a wedding cake on religious grounds but not ok for a convenience store to refuse service because they don’t want the outbreak monkey strolling through their place coughing all over other patrons and their staff. Stay outside the 6ft bubble, wear a damn mask, and wash your hands. It’s that easy. Stop pretending they’re asking for a kidney. It’s as much to protect yourself as it is everyone else. People wonder why we have things like stay-at-home orders and closing of non-essential businesses. It’s because of you, jackass, you’re the problem. It’s your lack of ability to exercise common sense and your refusal to follow simple, insanely simple advice that forces the government to exercise it for you. And even then, you still thumb your nose at it in all your ignorant glory. Sorry that you feel like they’re infringing on your right to be an irresponsible child. 

Look, all I’m saying is I get that it’s frustrating and I get that it’s irritating, and inconvenient and all the other bad things that it is, but please, continue to take this seriously, continue to do the little things that make a big difference. Stop denying facts, science, and the advice from people who have spent a lifetime doing what they do in the medical and research fields to ultimately make everyone’s lives healthier, safer, and better.

I’m done with my soap box now. ✌🏻

#washyourhands #wearamask
 

Just take your hydroxychloroquine and you'll be fine for when the second wave hits. We have all seen how well you grasp science.

Facts never get in the way of a good alt-right argument. 

Top 5 Presidential Job creators:
1.  Bill Clinton (1993-2001): Most number of jobs created of all Presidents (18.6 million jobs) 15.6% increase, the third-largest percentage increase
2.  Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945): Largest Percentage Increase. 21.5%, of all Presidents
3. Ronald Reagan (1981-1989): Second-Largest Job Creator, 16.5 million jobs during his eight-year term, a 16.5% increase. Reagan was the second-largest job creator both number-wise and percentage-wise.
4.  Jimmy Carter (1977-1981): Fourth-Largest Job Increase 9.8 million jobs, a 10.9% increase.
5. Harry Truman (1945-1953): Fourth-Largest Percentage Increase 6.9 million jobs. The 13% increase was the fourth-largest among modern presidents.

You look at Brazil and you look at the States, and then STILL think our government OVER reacted? 

My experience has been that some get a real sense of joy with confrontation and feel they are winning when they think they are triggering others with aggressive and/or passive aggressive tactics. It’s how they are wired and how they have been conditioned over time. Self awareness is not their friend.

Bear with me 'cause this is a long one but Frum always does a good job of summarizing Trump's many illegal activities and his patterns but, unlike the MAGAts posts, these have receipts:
 
 

Be careful on that descent from Mt. Stupid. Dunning-Kruger Land is unforgiving territory and very few can traverse the Valley of Despair. Best of luck. I hope you didn't pack too much tinfoil.

WE ARE TAKING UNPRECENDETEND STEPS TO CURB THE INFECTION! YOU CAN NOT USE THE NUMBERS AFTER TAKING STEPS AND THEN SAY IT WAS NO BIG DEAL!!!

Don’t fall for conspiracy about Dr. Anthony Fauci, hydroxychloroquine
IF YOUR TIME IS SHORT
An article published by a website run by an anti-LGBTQ political organization claims Dr. Anthony Fauci knew in 2005 that hydroxychloroquine was effective against human coronaviruses.
The article cites a 2005 study that found a related drug, chloroquine, could inhibit the spread of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome.
There is no known treatment, cure or vaccine for the novel coronavirus or SARS. While some early research suggests hydroxychloroquine could treat COVID-19 symptoms, other studies have found no discernible effect
See the sources for this fact-check   A widely shared conspiracy theory on Facebook alleges that Dr. Anthony Fauci is knowingly advocating against a treatment for the novel coronavirus. 
An April 27 article says the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases has known since 2005 that hydroxychloroquine, a drug used to treat conditions like lupus and arthritis, is effective against coronaviruses like the one that causes COVID-19.  
"Dr. Anthony Fauci, whose ‘expert’ advice to President Trump has resulted in the complete shutdown of the greatest economic engine in world history, has known since 2005 that chloroquine is an effective inhibitor of coronaviruses," reads the article. "How did he know this? Because of research done by the National Institutes of Health, of which he is the director."
The source of the article is One News Now, a website operated by the American Family Association, a Christian fundamentalist nonprofit founded by Mississippi pastor Donald Wildmon. The Southern Poverty Law Center has classified the political organization as an anti-LGBTQ hate group.
One News Now’s article was flagged as part of Facebook’s efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed. (Read more about our partnership with Facebook.) It has been shared more than 27,000 times.
(Screenshot from One News Now)
Despite being one of the most trusted coronavirus experts in the United States, Fauci has been the target of several conspiracy theories about his handling of the pandemic — particularly since he tempered expectations for hydroxychloroquine during a March press conference. So we wanted to check out this article, too.
There are several things wrong with the One News Now story. 
First: The article relies on a 2005 study about the effect of chloroquine on Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, more commonly called SARS. Chloroquine is chemically similar to hydroxychloroquine, but it is a different drug and is primarily used to treat malaria. Both drugs pose risks for people with heart problems.
The One News Now story claims the journal that published the study is "the official publication of Dr. Fauci’s National Institutes of Health." That’s inaccurate.
While the 2005 study has been indexed by the NIH’s National Library of Medicine, it was published in the peer-reviewed Virology Journal. The journal is produced by BioMed Central, a United Kingdom-based for-profit publisher. The study’s authors worked for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Clinical Research Institute of Montreal, and the study was funded by grants from the Canadian Institutes of Health Research.
We reached out to the NIH for more context, but we haven’t heard back. 
FEATURED FACT-CHECK
Facebook posts stated on April 12, 2020 in a Facebook post Says Michigan COVID-19 order bans gardening and the sale of vegetable seeds and fruit. By Tom Kertscher • April 15, 2020 Second: The study does not suggest that hydroxychloroquine could be effective at treating or preventing COVID-19, as One News Now claims.
"HCQ functions as both a cure and a vaccine," the website wrote. "In other words, it’s a wonder drug for coronavirus."
This is inaccurate — there is no cure or vaccine for SARS or the novel coronavirus. While some studies have found that hydroxychloroquine could mitigate some of the symptoms associated with COVID-19, other research has found no such effect. With more than 50 studies in the works, as well as an NIH clinical trial, it’s too soon to say whether the drug is a viable treatment for the coronavirus.
The 2005 study found that chloroquine — not hydroxychloroquine — was "effective in inhibiting the infection and spread of SARS CoV," the official name for SARS. The research was conducted in "cell culture conditions," meaning the drug was not administered to actual SARS patients. The authors wrote that more research was needed on how the drug interacts with SARS in animal test subjects.
"Cell culture testing of an antiviral drug against the virus is only the first step, of many steps, necessary to develop an antiviral drug," said Kate Fowlie, a press officer for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in an email. "It is important to realize that most antivirals that pass this cell culture test hurdle fail at later steps in the development process."
RELATED: Hydroxychloroquine and coronavirus: what you need to know
Finally: Fauci could not have known in 2005 that hydroxychloroquine was a potential treatment for COVID-19. Available evidence shows that the novel coronavirus first emerged in Hubei Province, China, in November.
While the novel coronavirus is similar to SARS in some respects — both are human coronaviruses that originated in bats, cause respiratory illness and spread through coughs and sneezes — they are different diseases. COVID-19 has infected more than 3.5 million people worldwide compared to the 8,000 who were sickened during the 2003 SARS outbreak. While SARS cases are generally more severe, scientists believe that COVID-19 is more transmissible.
As One News Now notes, the novel coronavirus and SARS have a 79% genetic similarity and use the same "host cell receptor," meaning they infect people in similar ways. But that doesn’t mean the findings of the 2005 study apply to COVID-19.
"Whether chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine are of value for treating infections with the different, but related, SARS-CoV-2 virus cannot be answered by the data in the 2005 study," Fowlie said.
Our ruling One News Now wrote that Fauci "has known for 15 years that chloroquine and … hydroxychloroquine will not only treat a current case of coronavirus but prevent future cases."
The website cited a study that has to do with SARS, not the novel coronavirus. It was published in 2005 in Virology Journal, which is not the "official publication" of the NIH. 
While the study found that chloroquine helped inhibit the spread of SARS in cell cultures, those results do not suggest that the drug is an effective treatment for SARS or COVID-19. As of now, there is no approved treatment or vaccine for either coronavirus.
The One News Now article is inaccurate. We rate it False.
          Our Sources
Business Insider, "Dr. Anthony Fauci and Andrew Cuomo remain the most trusted leaders on coronavirus, while Donald Trump and Jared Kushner are the least trusted," April 30, 2020
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Information for Clinicians on Investigational Therapeutics for Patients with COVID-19, April 25, 2020
C-SPAN, President Trump with Coronavirus Task Force Briefing, March 20, 2020
Email from Kate Fowlie, press officer for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, May 6, 2020
Healthline, "COVID-19 vs. SARS: How Do They Differ?" accessed May 5, 2020
National Institutes of Health, "NIH clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine, a potential therapy for COVID-19, begins," April 9, 2020
One News Now, "Fauci knew about HCQ in 2005 -- nobody needed to die," April 27, 2020
PolitiFact, "What early research actually says about hydroxychloroquine and the coronavirus," April 7, 2020
PolitiFact, "What we know about the source of the coronavirus pandemic," April 17, 2020
Southern Poverty Law Center, American Family Association, accessed May 5, 2020
Virology Journal, "Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread," Aug. 22, 2005
World Health Organization, Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Situation Report– 106, May 5, 2020

You truly are a dumb ****..... 
Here let me show you why this is pure idiocy. Humans and chimpanzees share 96% of their genome. Must be practically the same species! You want an example of something that shares about 80%? Cows. See why that is crap logic now?

God do all you right wing nutters have meetings to get your talking points straight? Cause I swear it's always the exact same arguments from every one of you.
 
Sweden is in no way shape or form an example that the USA could ever follow. Sweden is a small socialist country. They have a robust social safety net and well funded health care system... and they are still have issues no matter how much anyone wants to pretend they aren't.  The USA meanwhile has pay to play Healthcare and sweet **** all for a social safety net. If they just let er buck with this virus it would be devastating to them because such a large portion of their population lacks access to Healthcare to start with. In the States someone could go bankrupt having to go to the hospital as easily as they could "suffering" through a lockdown. 
 
It is high time people stop looking at things like this in terms of it just being about covid-19. All cover has done is peel back the layers and expose which countries have shitty governments and systems in place. 
It's why I don't like the "but unemployment will kill more people!!1!" Nonsense that gets tossed around. It's up to governments to support their people through this making the conclusions null and void unless the government does nothing. In which case it isn't the virus that is the problem,  it's uncaring government content to get rich off the plebs and if they die so be it, it was so a bunch of already rich people could get just a tiny bit richer. 
That is the real issue being exposed here. As a nation we can afford to take measures to slow the spread of this virus AND support people financially through it. It's not an either or choice. As I have said for ever, we aren't trying to stop this thing, only slow it down enough so that people don't have to die unnecessarily because too many people got sick at once. Herd immunity isn't something that only happens if everyone gets infected at once, it will happen as more people are exposed, which will naturally happen with a slow, phased re-opening of things. We take our time getting back to normal, we can care for the ones who get sick and still get that herd immunity (if it's something that lasts. These things mutate fast enough a new strain could show up in a few years that we don't have the resistance to. 
 

Aw, and we were doing so well just ignoring Pigseye's posts for a while.

Check your sources:
 
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New Zealand:  .4 deaths per 100,000
Sweden:  29.9 deaths per 100,000
I'm shocked!  Shocked that a Conservative politician would put business before lives.
Interesting how many New Zealanders have reacted to his response:
Simon Bridges' leadership questioned after missteps in response to coronavirus crisis
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/121237712/simon-bridges-leadership-questioned-after-missteps-in-response-to-coronavirus-crisis

It's way too early to make any kind of determination as to what is/was the best approach.  New Zealand pretty much kicked everyone else's ass by locking things right down immediately.

It's an opinion article from three years ago, written by James D. Agresti, founder and president of Just Facts. https://www.justfacts.com/james.d.agresti.asp (He's basically jerking himself off by trying to discredit the work MBFC does)
And would you look at that... He's also a policy advisor for the Heartland Institute: https://www.heartland.org/about-us/who-we-are/james-agresti 
If some born again bible thumper is your defense for the garbage you continue to post in this forum, you should just go and commit yourself already. That lightbulb in your echo chamber never did work.