TBURGESS

Does O'Shea strike you as someone who doesn't understand the chain of command or someone who would ignore those above him?

We're not talking about Mike O'Shea the HC who finally got us back into the playoffs. We're talking Mike O'Shea, first time Head Coach, with 2 losing seasons under his belt, the second worse than the first, no playoff games, at 1-4 on the last year of his first contract. If fired, that guy gets a STC job again, but won't be interviewing for HC jobs for quite a while. When your boss or you bosses boss tells you to do something, most people just do it. It doesn't often come in the form of an ultimatum, do it or else you're fired. More like this is what I want done and/or this is the way I want it done.

O'Shea was saying it's day to day and he doesn't need to practice to start, so saying it's just a precaution to put him on the 6 game instead of the 1 game should be taken with a grain or two of salt.

Seeing as it's you, you easily assume that it was O'Shea who made the decision when he suddenly realized what had been right in front of him for at least 5 games. If your boss tells you to make a change that you don't want to and you make it, is it actually your decision? Do you get to take all the accolades when it works out?

Nope. Of course, it's never been proved that O'Shea made the decision either.

I like the new rule and that they didn't wait until the end of the season to make it. I like that they will review the entire process in the off season and hopefully make it better. I like that I won't have to wait for a review after most big plays. I like that the Ipad warriors have less influence on the game. I like that the C'Mon center has less influence on the game. It's fine with me that HC's have to 'waste' their challenge on missed calls. That's what it was put in for in the first place. I know the refs will get calls wrong. They always have. They always will, but lets face it, the C'Mon center get calls wrong too and they aren't doing it in real time with only one view. Most PI, RTP and illegal contact the don't get called aren't black and white anyway.

Jeremiah Johnson

I knew someone would try to drag me into this. I don't even know if there are a dozen different cameras or a dozen different angles to look at in a regular season CFL game. Certainly no one on these boards has seen so many angles, yet many know for sure that he was either in for a TD or he wasn't. That's bollocks.

The Refs seem to call everything that's close a TD these days. Is it because they know that it will be automatically reviewed if they call it a TD and it won't be if they don't? The byproduct of doing that is more TD's because there's rarely enough evidence to overturn calls, which is what the CFL wants in the first place. FTR and in hopes of not getting any more involved in this debate... I can't tell for sure if Harris was in before he touched the ground or not. I submit that anyone who says they can is fooling themselves.

I'm finding the black text on the grey background harder to read than the old version. Maybe a lighter grey?

What did you want them to do? Calgary put in their 2nd string QB, 2nd string RB to start the 2nd half and didn't have their top receiver in the game. The guys who don't get much chance to play or to show off their skills weren't going to just stop playing. Calgary ran the score up because Hamilton didn't stop them. That's just the way football goes sometimes.

I like the way Carter can play football. I wish he'd play the way he did last night all the time. I couldn't care less if he mouths off, lots of players do that. He's an idiot, but so are lots of football players. I don't like the stupid penalties or the way he disappears for games at a time or the way he pouts when he doesn't get the ball. If he could fix those things, he'd be in the NFL.

Thanks.

Cool. Personally, I don't use the twitter feed, so that's not a big deal to me. Just checked out the reactions. Assuming you can change what shows up there, how about an Agree and a Disagree Emoji. Didn't like the fluid view so I changed back to the old one. I only look at one forum so having the others there didn't help me.

I didn't think that the 'shove' deserved a penalty. An acting award maybe, but not a penalty. I didn't think the 'PI' in the end zone that Carmichale took deserved a penalty. An acting award maybe, but not a penalty. Maybe the CFL needs to put in a 'diving' penalty.

I didn't say all the variables are more or less the same or that the Bombers suck or that everyone else doesn't. I simply gave 5 examples (Trestman twice) of new HC's taking bad teams and turning them around. Calvillo was with Montreal, looking like he was done, before Trestman got there. Same holds true for Ray. Reilly was in Edmonton putting up a disappointing 4-14 season before Jones took over. You don't like Chapdelaine, so I'll throw in Austin who took a 6-12 team that already had Burris on it to the Grey Cup in his first year. There you have 4 examples of QB's winning way more under the new coach than they were under the old coach. Ottawa out bid us for their QB's party because O'Shea actually believed that Willy was the right answer.

You start off so well then you say comparing Trestman to O'Shea laughable. How 'bout the first time Trestman came to the CFL. Took a team that was 8-10 the year before to the Grey Cup. Jacques Chapdelaine went 4-2 after Popp went 3-9 last year as a rookie HC without a great QB (For 17). Chris Jones went 12-6 in 2014 as a rookie HC, after they went 4-14 the year before. Rick Campbell took a team that didn't exist to the Grey Cup in his second year and won it in his third year as a HC.

So you're admitting that a proven HC is better than a rookie?

Of course he inherited a bad team, but so did Trestman and he's turned Toronto around in the first third of his first season. I don't give O'Shea a mulligan for being a rookie HC. You ought to be able to do the job you get. I don't like the first round of coordinators at all and I don't much like the passive PLAP or Hall all that much better. There's a reason we constantly start slow and give up late drives. O'Shea hasn't steadily improved. In fact he had more wins in his first season than his second and we absolutely stunk in the first third of his third season. O'Shea's had two thirds of a good season so far and many of the changes that sparked our turn around were forced on him by injuries. IMHO 2/3's of one season don't erase 2 1/3 bad seasons. Being liked by your players is a horrible way to judge an HC. Jeff Freakin' Reinebolt was loved by his players too. It didn't make him any good at his job. Folks put way too much stock in what players say after they sign with any team. Would the players who say good things about O'Shea say good things bout any other HC they were playing for? Probably. Would they sign for more money on another team? Probably. Wins is the number 1 way to judge an HC. I wish I could be astounded that I have to point that out, but...

An interesting read: https://www.cfl.ca/2017/07/27/ferguson-trend-team-2017s-quarter-mark/ We're 4th in the league and above average in run %. And we grade out top in QB protection.

It's not that O'Shea has rubbed people the wrong way nor will it take an unblemished record and a GC to satisfy folks who don't consider O'Shea to be a great or even good HC. All you have to do is look at his current record to figure out why some folks don't love MOS. He's in his 4th year and still below .500. He had 1 winning year in his first 3. He hasn't won a playoff game yet or got us to a home playoff game. His choices of coordinators leaves a lot to be desired as does his in game decision making.

From: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/new-study-teaches-us-football-brain-disease/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=pbsofficial&utm_campaign=newshour

That's how you know you're right.

It's not that consistency creates winning teams, it's that winning teams create consistency. Being consistently bad is horrible. Being consistently mediocre is somewhat better. Being consistently good is what everyone wants.

It started with this statement, which is wrong IMO. Firstly, making the playoffs hasn't guaranteed the HC another year in the past, just ask Doug Berry. Secondly, there is a time limit on mediocrity. 8 or 9 wins gets you into the playoffs. O'Shea keeps his job with that record this year because they wouldn't want to pay the 2 years left on his contract nor would they want want to admit they were wrong. 8 or 9 wins again next year and you have to think about replacing O'Shea. Same thing if we don't win playoff games. Walters will give O'Shea the benefit of the doubt for this year, even if we don't make the playoffs, but would he continue to do so next year or the year after if we turn out to be a consistent .500 team instead of a contender? FTR: I'm not saying that we will be a .500 team going forward, that we won't make the playoffs this year or that we will only win 8 or 9 games each of the next two years. I am saying if these things happen, O'Shea should lose his job because you can't support continued mediocrity.