Mike

a veteran CFL receiver? So in Burke terms, a guy who caught a couple passes in training camp.

you can tell he knows it by all the excuse making he's done since Mack was fired. The whole "crowton is picking qbs" to "doing the best with that I have" and all the rest. He's a dead man walking desperately trying to save his own hide while the team crumbles around him. How long until the players give up completely if they haven't already? How ugly is THAT going to be? Wait, you think they haven't?

Anything to get Burke out.

For everyone who says there's nobody to replace Burke ... I'd give the job to Walters for the rest of the year.

What's the point in auditioning players when the team is being coached by an absolute moron? It's not like they're going to be able to perform at a high level.

You have got to be kidding me.

Just out of curiosity, didn't you tell us earlier in the week that if Buck sucked, you'd be off the bandwagon?

Buck hurt. Color me surprised.

that's how i figure it... hopping my train soon... Mark H, see you there... my mobile# is in your PM box Somebody save this post as evidence if we never hear from Mark again. I can already see the headlines ... "Bomber fan beaten by entire Argonauts fanbase; one man arrested"

Aaron Maybin, you mean. I'm a huge Bengals fan, so I love it. PS ... Maybin is on Winnipeg's negotiation list.

In other news, Rene Stephan will actually dress for his second consecutive game without breaking several bones. Congratulations Rene!

Oh, and Pierce was already on the 46. He'll draw into the 42 but the guy coming on the roster for Gilmore is Harris.

I don't know why, but I expected more changes than this. Also worth pointing out ... Denmark at SB / Etienne at WR

It really is just logic. I'm not grabbing facts to fit into what I think happened, I'm letting the facts write the story for me and it's the only logical conclusion worth coming to when you stack ALL the information up. FACT - A bidding war for Reilly = more money for Reilly FACT - Reilly opted to not wait for a bidding war WHY? He wanted to go to Edmonton FACT - Buono let Edmonton talk to Reilly WHY? He knew if they reached a deal with him, the return on his side would be greater FACT - Buono negotiated with Winnipeg FACT - Buono did not let Winnipeg talk to Reilly WHY? He knew negotiating with more than one team would increase his return. He also knew if Winnipeg spoke to Reilly, they would no longer be interested in negotiating because Reilly appeared to have no interest in coming here. It's not difficult to see that this was just a brilliant move by Buono, awful move by Hervey and an intelligent, yet unfortunate move by Mack.

But is it worth that just for the chance to talk to him? 'Cause there's no guarantees that he'd sign. It was JUST the rights to talk to him... Can't argue with that. I guess you would need to make sure you've done your due dilegence (tampering) so that you knew he would be willing to sign with you. Now, somebody is going to jump in and say no way he was signing here no matter what. Which I don't believe but I'm not going to argue anymore because it's been argued to death and it's hypothetical anyway. Just out of curiosity ... In your opinion, how much diligence is due? I mean, to me, it's an obvious red flag when Wally says "Edmonton is allowed to talk to him, but Winnipeg isn't" Why isn't Winnipeg? The obvious answer to me is that Wally knew we wouldn't like what Reilly's agent had to say. See I don't see it quite that way. I think Edmonton said we want to trade for Reily and Wally said "ok but you can't talk to him" and Edmonton said, "Well then get stuffed" and then they negotiated and something got worked out. I think Winnipeg said we want to trade for Reily and Wally said ok but you can't talk to him and Winnipeg said "We can't get Reilly which is ok because we can find someone better ourselves anyway." It never made sense to me that Wally said Edmonton can talk to him and Winnipeg can't. And that Edmonton has to give us a 2nd and 3rd and Winnipeg has to give us a 1st and 3rd. I believe Wally opened negotiations with both teams at the same place and Winnipeg walked away and told everyone they couldn't get him and Edmonton kept at it and got him. For better or worse. Okay. Please explain why Wally would not let ANYBODY talk to him. All it could do is increase the return he could get in a trade.

But is it worth that just for the chance to talk to him? 'Cause there's no guarantees that he'd sign. It was JUST the rights to talk to him... Can't argue with that. I guess you would need to make sure you've done your due dilegence (tampering) so that you knew he would be willing to sign with you. Now, somebody is going to jump in and say no way he was signing here no matter what. Which I don't believe but I'm not going to argue anymore because it's been argued to death and it's hypothetical anyway. Just out of curiosity ... In your opinion, how much diligence is due? I mean, to me, it's an obvious red flag when Wally says "Edmonton is allowed to talk to him, but Winnipeg isn't" Why isn't Winnipeg? The obvious answer to me is that Wally knew we wouldn't like what Reilly's agent had to say.

I think it's pretty clear cut why Reilly would take the deal and run... he was only ever going to have an opportunity to start here or in EDM. That's exactly the point...Reilly wasn't going anywhere but Edmonton. He had made up his mind. Way to cherry pick my posts to make your point. If Reilly got to free agency, he was going to the highest bidder with the best starting opportunity. Wally Buono is not in the business of making sweetheart deals... he could give a f*** less where Reilly wanted to go. Wally's only interested in getting a return for something that 2 days later would bring him nothing... and if WPG and EDM were equal, he was dealing the negotiating rights to WPG, because he'd be dealing Reilly out of his division. He just got the best deal from EDM. There's nothing more to it than that. Supply and command, Ricky. If Reilly got to Free Agency, I would agree with your point. But he didn't, and Buono made the best deal for Buono... you can guarantee that Reilly's preference played exactly 0% into where Buono would have dealt him. I don't agree.

Must be nice comparing one half against two.

well except that PIerce wasn't good enough... They won the east final on the strength of the defense and running game. What did Pierce do in the Grey Cup game other than suck balls until garbage time? The thing that no one backing Pierce seems to want to address is that his struggles are not a new thing, he's been going downhill every since 2010 at the earliest and partway through 2011 at the latest. Good lord, he was good enough to beat Glenn that day 19 - 3, now you're just looking foolish. Who exactly looks foolish? Glenn was 13-18 in that game, much better than Buck's 16-28 with 1 INT. Or I suppose we should blame Glenn for having his ankle rolled on the first play of the second half.

Oh and just so everyone is aware ... we were never giving up a first rounder to get Reilly. We were swapping firsts and giving up a third.

Right, because I guess we just never really wanted Reilly, we just negotiated with BC and then leaked the story that Buono didn't give us a fair shake at negotiating with Reilly in order to save face. What is that? Conspiracy theory #800 on this board? I don't recall Mack ever saying we would be aggressively pursuing Reilly, perhaps you can show me that? By negotiate, what do you mean, what was actually negotiated, what did Mack offer to talk to him or did he, again please show me those 'negotiations'. Please show me proof of anything you speculate on under the guise of an insider around here.

The Lions didn't offer Reilly to anyone. They offered the rights to Reilly with the ability to negotiate prior to a deal to Edmonton. They offered the rights to Reilly with no ability to negotiate prior to a deal to Winnipeg. There is a HUGE difference.

Close but by acquiring Reilly he could have turned around and traded him to Hervey for Nichols and his pick back or depending on how bad Hervey wanted him, made Reilly an offer he couldn't refuse to stay. In either case, the situation looks more like a half hearted attempt. Right, because that makes sense. Two horse race, one horse can't sign a deal and the other horse is just going to give up assets to get him.

Again, we really don't know that to be true. An offer was made by Wally to get Reilly to Joe Mack. Mack refused. So Reilly was traded to Edmonton. If he would have been traded to Winnipeg then he could have done the deal as Reilly wasn't a free agent yet & still under contract to the Bombers. Was it a risk? Yes, surely. A HUGE risk & making that trade would have been ballsy because of it but considering where our first round pick is now, I'd have done it. And made bloody sure I signed him. We absolutely do not know if Reilly preferred Edmonton over Winnipeg. They traded for him & got the deal done. We weren't privy & never will be to the discussions in Mack's office, so all total speculation about that. We don't know what was said. Bottom line, that Reilly was the best opportunity to try & fix the mess at qb we have now. Not doing anything has resulted in a losing team as well as a scorcehed Earth battlefield with Bomber managemnt & coaching.... So, maybe the risk Mack took was really standing pat. In the end, doing the deal or not doing the deal cost people their jobs. The repercussions are still going on. I'd like to believe that it was out of Joe's hands but c'mon.... Looking at how he's done business in the past, I find that hard to believe. So then please explain why the following two things occurred ... a ) Wally refused to let Winnipeg talk shop with Reilly prior to a trade, but allowed Edmonton to b ) Reilly did not opt to wait until free agency before signing a deal in order to maximize his earnings According to what we know it came down to two things... One, the Lions wanted a first rounder from us but a second rounder from Edmonton. And he signed with the Esks virtually minutes after he was obtained in a trade from the Lions. To me, it came down to Mack not believing that fixing the qb mess was worth a first rounder which I find unbelievable. He overvalued Buck & Goltz & undervalued Elliott & Brink which was a mistake. He also dod not want to pay & therefore take a risk on Reilly. According to the way it supposedly went down, Wally offered Mack Reilly & he said no. His choice. Look what has happened since. Are you turning a blind eye to the facts in this story on purpose or are you just doing it to frustrate me? The single biggest thing about the difference in negotiations between BC/WPG and BC/EDM is that Edmonton had permission to talk to Reilly and we didn't. But you keep ignoring that every single time. Why?