Yet another mass shooting in the states. This time. Orlando at a gay night club. 50 dead. 53 injured. Shooter apparently of Muslim descent. Uh oh. But... that's not why he shot those people. He shot them because he saw 2 men kissing. Media trying to make this about radical Islam when it's obvious it's not. When will America learn? 

3 minutes ago, Jimmy Pop said:

Don't hold your breath.

 

Hold your breath about what?  I was just repeating what Jacquie said.  So I'm supposed to not hold my breath that Jacquie is going to give us a citation?

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I do like how if a white guy who isn't Muslim shoots people in the US, he immediately is branded a "Christian", no matter what.

I don't speak for Jacquie but I don't think that's what she said at all.

Edited June 13, 20169 yr by johnzo

3 minutes ago, johnzo said:

I don't speak for Jacquie but I don't think that's what she said at all.

When a white Christian male goes on a shooting spree (which happens with a much, much greater frequency in the US)

I am waiting for a citation on this statement.  My hypothesis is that this statement is a giant crock of BS, but of course, it agrees with the leftist interpretation of the world and keeps propping up the PC fallacy that "all religions are equally bad", which is why it went unquestioned by you and the other guy, while I was immediately jumped on by you.  As has already been seen, some posters just lose their **** completely when this mindset is even remotely questioned.

Edited June 13, 20169 yr by kelownabomberfan

Radical Islam accounts for few recent mass shootings — but also some of the deadliest

1 hour ago, johnzo said:

yeah, I'm with Jimmy Pop -- my gay friends are terrified now and are looking over their shoulders, especially with Pride coming up in pretty much every city,

You are in Seattle right?  That city's gay population was already targeted two years ago by Muslim extremists.  I fear these attacks are only going to get worse.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Neighbours-arson-Cheap-whiskey-or-intolerable-5659983.php

Quote

The statistic shows the number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and 2015, by race and ethnicity of the shooter(s). Between 1982 and 2015, 44 out of 72 mass shootings were initiated by White shooters.

Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and 2015, by shooter's race and ethnicity

You're comparing about .9% (Islam) of the population to 70% (Christians). Funny how the Jews, Buddhists and Hindus don't make the list? 

What if we took the notion of religion out of this?  I've never seen any studies that really exhaustively break down shooters by religion (except for the radical Islam vs. non-radical Islam one that JP quotes above) so taking about religion of shooters is tough

That said, some people hold that white shooters get an easier ride in the media than non-white shooters. I haven't got time to dig in this right now, but my gut feel is that this is more true than not.

(I did go off half-cocked because I missed the context from Jacquie's post. So I'm cool with being called out on that. My bad.)

https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-by-the-numbers/#DailyDeaths

 

Edited June 13, 20169 yr by FrostyWinnipeg

Nearly two-thirds (64 percent) of firearm deaths in the U.S. are suicides.

good lord. That's six 9/11s a year.

And it's not even counting all the people who try and fail.

21 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I do like how if a white guy who isn't Muslim shoots people in the US, he immediately is branded a "Christian", no matter what, purely so that the Politically Correct crowd can keep their head in the sand about the rise of Islamic extremism and spout the same propaganda that you are spouting above.  Just because a white guy shoots people doesn't make him a Christian, while a guy screaming "allah Akbar" while he mows down 50 people in a night club does tend to make you think he was probably doing it thanks to his religion. 

There have been no substantiated reports that the shooter yelled that while shooting. Other than Donald Trump (and the author whose tweet he copied), do you have any citation for that?

There are reports coming out that the shooter's motives may not have been religious. ABC New has reported he was a patron of gay clubs for years. There are numerous reports that he was mentally unstable. 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/witnesses-orlando-shooter-regular-gay-clubs/story?id=39839464

The US media doesn't initially identify white shooters as being Christian nor do they use the word terrorism when talking about mass shootings by white males. And I wasn't saying the shootings done by white men were for religious reason. I can't provide stats for religion since the US media doesn't include that information but considering a recent ABC News poll found that 83% of Americans identify themselves as being Christian it would be statistically improbable for most of the shooters to be non-Christian. I will keep looking to see if I can find something however. 

Edited June 14, 20169 yr by Jacquie

34 minutes ago, Jacquie said:

. I will keep looking to see if I can find something however. 

OK Jacquie, whatever helps you sleep at night.  While you are combing the internet looking for stats proving that white male Christians are the true enemy of western society, could you also research why ultra-leftists are obsessed with ignoring the rise of Islamic fundamentalism?  I'd be curious as to that answer too.

5 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

OK Jacquie, whatever helps you sleep at night.  While you are combing the internet looking for stats proving that white male Christians are the true enemy of western society, could you also research why ultra-leftists are obsessed with ignoring the rise of Islamic fundamentalism?  I'd be curious as to that answer too.

It is rather interesting.  Is it "white guilt"?  The question of how a guy who had to have been vetted for a gun-carrying security position while being questioned by the FBI for remarks about suicide bombers is something that needs to be answered. 

Just now, The Unknown Poster said:

It is rather interesting.  Is it "white guilt"?  The question of how a guy who had to have been vetted for a gun-carrying security position while being questioned by the FBI for remarks about suicide bombers is something that needs to be answered. 

I agree.

 

http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/shooter-used-to-visit-orlando-gay-club-use-gay-dating-apps/

Interesting if true.  Considering his fathers remarks about God punishing gays, it certainly wouldnt surprise me if he, being gay, had huge issues as a result.  Also interesting is the claim the FBI asked the ex wife not to tell American media this...

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

WTF!?!?  Why would we need assault rifles?  What are we mowing down all the attacking bears?  What idiot MP came up with this stupid idea?

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

OK Jacquie, whatever helps you sleep at night.  While you are combing the internet looking for stats proving that white male Christians are the true enemy of western society, could you also research why ultra-leftists are obsessed with ignoring the rise of Islamic fundamentalism?  I'd be curious as to that answer too.

I don't know how you interpreted what I said to mean that. Every religion has its share of fundamentalist nut cases. The problem is judging an entire religion based on those nut cases. 

Since you only quoted a small part of my post I guess that means you don't have any non-Trump source for your claim about the shooter yelling Allahu Akbar.

9 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

WTF!?!?  Why would we need assault rifles?  What are we mowing down all the attacking bears?  What idiot MP came up with this stupid idea?

PC MP from BC - Bob Zimmer.

12 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

WTF!?!?  Why would we need assault rifles?  What are we mowing down all the attacking bears?  What idiot MP came up with this stupid idea?

Yup.  I have never heard a reasonable argument from anyone, NRA included, about these types of weapons.  It generally comes down to "well, if you take that away, when will it stop", which is a silly argument to begin with.  And holding up the Constitution and claiming that it must be adhered to as if something written hundreds of years ago somehow included issues pertaining to the modern world...and forgetting that it has been amended many times.

Anyway, I'd like to hear this MP explain his need for an assault rifle.

The NRA has defended their position in the wake or Orlando and blamed the attack on political correctness.  They have said terrorist wont respect fun control laws.  Which has to be the silliest argument since "if trans people can choose their bathroom, the country will be overrun by straight guys dressing up as chicks to assault children".

On 6/13/2016 at 10:54 AM, The Unknown Poster said:

Comments from the shooters father (from rolling stone):

The father also addressed his son's actions in a video posted on Facebook. "I don't know what cause this," he said, according to a translation from The New York Times. "I did not know and did not understand that he has anger in his heart." In addition, The Washington Post reports that the elder Mateen declared, "God himself will punish those involved in homosexuality. This is not for the servants [of God]."
 

Yup, sure is a mystery where the shooter learned his beliefs. 

Which beliefs are those?

6 minutes ago, Jacquie said:

PC MP from BC - Bob Zimmer.

I hope everyone remembers his name come election time.

11 minutes ago, Jacquie said:

I don't know how you interpreted what I said to mean that. Every religion has its share of fundamentalist nut cases. The problem is judging an entire religion based on those nut cases. 

Since you only quoted a small part of my post I guess that means you don't have any non-Trump source for your claim about the shooter yelling Allahu Akbar.

Just to wade in here but like KBF said, I read & heard on CNN yesterday that the shooter did shout that Allah Akbar **** when he was killing people. Either survivors said that or when he dialed 911 3 times...

10 minutes ago, Jacquie said:

PC MP from BC - Bob Zimmer.

How stupid. Great timing. What a moron.

3 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

Just to wade in here but like KBF said, I read & heard on CNN yesterday that the shooter did shout that Allah Akbar **** when he was killing people. Either survivors said that or when he dialed 911 3 times...

The whole "dont blame an entire religion" thing is interesting.  While there will always be some that blame all of Islam or all of Christianity when these things happen, I think generally people get it.  But Bernie Sanders today said "this was the act of one man, not a religion".  Well actually, if what we hear is true, that he WAS at least partly inspired by his religion devotion then religion was a big part of it. Islam?  Okay, we can say no.  Radical Islam?  Absolutely. 

But for so many lefts its so hard to say that.  There are issues in both Christianity and Islam.  Let's not pretend that there isn't.  Let's not pretend that moderate Muslim's arent ignoring or passively interpreting certain aspects of their religion.  This issue wont be overcome by declaring war on Islam, especially be predominantly white Christians.  It really requires more Muslims to stand up and educate their young people away from radicalization.  But burying our heads in the sand doesnt help either.

I think we can separate Islam from Radical Islam.  We can blame Radical islam and that IS a religious movement.