I can't believe I am even making this Thread... 

 

But, it seems to have taken over the politics Thread so I figured we can hash this out here (though the way the conversation was heading about AGW, maybe it should have stayed in the Politics thread...

 

 

So here we go, let's have at it!

 

 

I believe there is overwhelming evidence in AGW and it is a vocal, self-serving minority of the scientific community that derail and muddy up the issue so we can not act in a constructive manner to curtail this global thread.

Edited January 2, 20233 yr by Wanna-B-Fanboy

26 gigawatts green hydrogen is a massive project.

 

"Oil and gas supermajor BP has agreed to take a 40.5% equity stake in the Asian Renewable Energy Hub, a vast project planned for Australia set to span an area of 6,500 square kilometers.

In an announcement Wednesday, BP said it would become the operator of the development, adding that it had “the potential to be one of the largest renewables and green hydrogen hubs in the world.”

Located in the Pilbara region of Western Australia, it’s envisaged the project will develop up to 26 gigawatts of combined solar and wind generating capacity.

The idea is that the hub would provide power to local customers. The hydrogen and ammonia would be used in Australia and exported internationally.

“At full capacity, AREH is expected to be capable of producing around 1.6 million tonnes of green hydrogen or 9 million tonnes of green ammonia, per annum,” BP said."

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/15/bp-buys-40point5percent-stake-in-massive-renewables-and-green-hydrogen-project.html

Just a couple of first hand accounts on alfalfa , poplar, cows and trees.

I have grown alfalfa most of my life. As a feed when I had cattle,  as a crop when I sold bales and notably as a rotational crop in grain production. Alfalfa is a nitrogen fixer. It takes nitrogen from the air and converts it into a form that can be used by plants. It's root system also breaks through hard pan and mellows up soil for multiple years. It along with other legumes and beneficial plants can be part of a plow / graze down system for organic production. ( which we currently do )

On poplar. They are a pretty good firewood. No, not as good as oak or ash but properly cured and STACKED it's good wood. We currently burn almost exclusivly spruce as many  of the spruce planted by my father and uncle in the 30s or maybe even late 20s have timed out and are dieing. I'd much rather burn poplar but we need to clean up the dead spruce. One of the good things about planting poplar is I dont believe any of the host of diseases and bugs have attacked them yet. Dutch elm disease got our elms and now the Emerald Ash  bug will devastate the ash. ( including  all the ones plated as windbreaks ). Poplar are a resilient, fast growing , tree. There was a push to plant marginal land to trees for pulp and paper  a few years ago and it was poplar that was being planted.

On cows and trees : They certainly can clean out all the young trees out of a bush, depending on the number of cows and the size ( acres )  of the bush.. There was a study  done in our area a few years ago that showed the most environmentally  beneficial thing to do with our riparian zones was to fence the cattle out but allow them to come in and graze off the grasses a couple of times a year. That way there is less damage to trees, and soil  but less grasses on the clear spots that build up a thatch and send phosphates down stream.

Edit : Dammit all that cow/ poplar talk has dredged up a memory.  I can't stop myself from telling it .I had a cow, " Missy " that had a real talent for walking down poplar trees. She would take a poplar up to 3 inches in diameter ,maybe 15 ft tall , push on it then get it between her front legs on her brisket and walk it down till she got to leaves. The crazy part was no other cow could do it quite like her but they knew that she could and would gather around when she started doing it so they could join in the feast.  You wouldn't want a herd with her ability.

Edited June 19, 20223 yr by the watcher

2 hours ago, the watcher said:

On poplar.

very underrated species. 

tough  fast growing, provide food for birds, and bugs, and  cavities for woodpeckers, and other bug eating, cavity nesting birds.

I also like Manitoba maple, for the same reasons.

Edited June 19, 20223 yr by Mark F

25 minutes ago, Mark F said:

 

I also like Manitoba maple, for the same reasons.

Another underrated firewood. 

3 hours ago, the watcher said:

 

On poplar. They are a pretty good firewood. No, not as good as oak or ash but properly cured and STACKED it's good wood. We currently burn almost exclusivly spruce as many  of the spruce planted by my father and uncle in the 30s or maybe even late 20s have timed out and are dieing. I'd much rather burn poplar but we need to clean up the dead spruce. One of the good things about planting poplar is I dont believe any of the host of diseases and bugs have attacked them yet. Dutch elm disease got our elms and now the Emerald Ash  bug will devastate the ash. 

Oak, ash or elm are only needed for the very cold months. People will buy just a half cord of oak, and use poplar or jack pine for the rest. 

7 hours ago, the watcher said:

Edit : Dammit all that cow/ poplar talk has dredged up a memory.  I can't stop myself from telling it .I had a cow, " Missy " that had a real talent for walking down poplar trees. She would take a poplar up to 3 inches in diameter ,maybe 15 ft tall , push on it then get it between her front legs on her brisket and walk it down till she got to leaves. The crazy part was no other cow could do it quite like her but they knew that she could and would gather around when she started doing it so they could join in the feast.  You wouldn't want a herd with her ability.

Damn you for making me think of this. We had a dairy cow (#44) that would crap all over the walls, every time she walked out of the milking parlour - she'd give you a 'gotcha look' every time.

3 hours ago, Mark H. said:

Damn you for making me think of this. We had a dairy cow (#44) that would crap all over the walls, every time she walked out of the milking parlour - she'd give you a 'gotcha look' every time.

Cows really can have distinct personalities. I had a cow  I bought from a neighbor and when she had a calf she was loaded with milk so I tried milking her. And we came to an agreement . I'd feed her some prime 2nd cut alfalfa and she would let me milk her 2 front teats.  If I tried the back 2 she would fidget and fuss. They were reserved for her calf. One day when I wasn't in a pleasant mood I went to milk her and her mood matched mine.She kept moving around and finally knocked over the pail of milk. I stood up firing off expletives and kicked her on her back shin. She looked back at me with a " oh, yeah " look and cracked me right back with her back hoof on my shin. We looked at each other for a minute , I gave her some more feed, sat down quietly and milked her accepting that I had been put in my place.

9 hours ago, Mark F said:

very underrated species. 

tough  fast growing, provide food for birds, and bugs, and  cavities for woodpeckers, and other bug eating, cavity nesting birds.

I also like Manitoba maple, for the same reasons.

Now MB Maple is something I can get behind. In addition to all the other things you listed, we make our entire syrup supply for the season as well as some for friends. Also grows like a weed and has good value for turning or carving.

11 minutes ago, WildPath said:

Now MB Maple is something I can get behind. In addition to all the other things you listed, we make our entire syrup supply for the season as well as some for friends. Also grows like a weed and has good value for turning or carving.

You just need more education about poplar. 😀

But oh yes - Netley Creek maple syrup - maybe we should gift some to whoever wins the pick 'ems. 

34 minutes ago, the watcher said:

Cows really can have distinct personalities. I had a cow  I bought from a neighbor and when she had a calf she was loaded with milk so I tried milking her. And we came to an agreement . I'd feed her some prime 2nd cut alfalfa and she would let me milk her 2 front teats.  If I tried the back 2 she would fidget and fuss. They were reserved for her calf. One day when I wasn't in a pleasant mood I went to milk her and her mood matched mine.She kept moving around and finally knocked over the pail of milk. I stood up firing off expletives and kicked her on her back shin. She looked back at me with a " oh, yeah " look and cracked me right back with her back hoof on my shin. We looked at each other for a minute , I gave her some more feed, sat down quietly and milked her accepting that I had been put in my place.

The cows wanted to hear QX 104 during morning milking. If I dared to check CJOB sports at 25 after the hour, one or two of them would kick their milking machines off.  But they did like afternoon baseball and football games. 

10 hours ago, WildPath said:

value for turning or carving.

I carve.... both are good for carving.... maple has red streaks. poplar pretty easy to carve, really nice grain. both are  underrated carving woods

I have planted and brought along many of both... used to live on 20 acres east of wpg.

I planted , watered, mulched, fertilized hundreds of trees. 

Edited June 20, 20223 yr by Mark F

12 hours ago, the watcher said:

Cows really can have distinct personalities

in the bedroom we have a beautiful original  painting by a selkirk area artist, of three cows resting in the paddock. 

I havent eaten beef for twenty five years, cause I like those critters.

10 hours ago, Mark F said:

in the bedroom we have a beautiful original  painting by a selkirk area artist, of three cows resting in the paddock. 

I havent eaten beef for twenty five years, cause I like those critters.

Those cows are dead by now, anyway.  There's no need to further torture and deprive  yourself.

4 hours ago, Mark H. said:

There's no need to further  torture and deprive yourself.

no deprivation at all. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/what-on-earth-bc-heat-dome-marine-life-1.6499171

Quote

A new study in the journal Ecology suggests that last year's heat dome over the west coast of B.C. and Washington state may have "far-reaching" effects on the ecology of beaches, bluffs, inlets and river deltas, in addition to the impact on fisheries and cultural connections that the land, sea and sea life provide.

The heat that descended on the West Coast last June not only killed 619 people, but also roughly a billion sea creatures, which baked to death as temperatures soared.

Organized by researchers at the University of Washington, the study said the heat dome "would have been virtually impossible without human-caused climate change." The authors hope it will serve as a "bellwether for future extreme temperature events, which are predicted to become more frequent and more severe in a warmer climate."

In the days that followed the extreme temperatures, a network of local scientists from First Nations, universities, federal and U.S. state agencies fanned out to 108 sites spanning the inner and outer coasts to observe the impact on marine life, according to the study.

FWIW: the dead cattle count in Nebraska is nearing 10,000. Gonna be a lot of sales on hamburger.

14 hours ago, Tracker said:

FWIW: the dead cattle count in Nebraska is nearing 10,000. Gonna be a lot of sales on hamburger.

The opposite. You can't use a previously dead animal for human consumption so there are 10,000 less animals in the system for breeding/ slaughter. The packers will use this as an excuse to up the price of beef.

Edited June 25, 20223 yr by the watcher

1 hour ago, the watcher said:

The opposite. You can't use a previously dead animal for human consumption so there are 10,000 less animals in the system for breeding/ slaughter. The packers will use this as an excuse to up the price of beef.

"Previously dead"? As far as I know, you can be dead only once, unless you believe in reincarnation. Just kidding, but if they died of the heat, wouldn't they be already partially cooked?

3 hours ago, Tracker said:

"Previously dead"? As far as I know, you can be dead only once, unless you believe in reincarnation. Just kidding, but if they died of the heat, wouldn't they be already partially cooked?

Lol. I guess I worded that poorly. They need to be alive and healthy going into the slaughter plant. I presume the US laws are the same

4 hours ago, the watcher said:

Lol. I guess I worded that poorly. They need to be alive and healthy going into the slaughter plant. I presume the US laws are the same

Alive and healthy before being killed?  Sounds like condemned inmates having their arms swabbed before the fatal injection. BTW: My summer job was at Canada Packers.

On 2022-06-25 at 4:44 PM, Tracker said:

Alive and healthy before being killed?  Sounds like condemned inmates having their arms swabbed before the fatal injection. BTW: My summer job was at Canada Packers.

Me too!  I worked on the ham line with Cal Murphy's son and on the kill floor vacuuming carcasses beside an older man with grey skin who never spoke.  I did not realize zombies held day jobs back then, but they did.

US supreme court delivers another piece of wreckage.

EPA can not regulate power plants.

this wrecking ball court, together with congress that does nothing. means big trouble.

 

"Justice Elena Kagan wrote a dissent, which was joined by the court’s two other liberals. “Today, the Court strips the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) of the power Congress gave it to respond to ’the most pressing environmental challenge of our time, ” Kagan wrote in the dissent.

“The Court appoints itself — instead of Congress or the expert agency—the decisionmaker on climate policy. I cannot think of many things more frightening,” Kagan wrote. She also said, “The majority claims it is just following precedent, but that is not so. The Court has never even used the term ‘major questions doctrine’ before.”

A White House spokesperson on Thursday said the EPA ruling was “another devastating decision from the Court that aims to take our country backwards.”"

cnbc.

 

no idea where the World is headed.

emissions continue to rise, and I am thinking its basically over for the planet.

thankful that I am old, and will not be around twenty years from now to see the hellscape we have created.

worth noting, half of  democrats voted FOR scjudge John Roberts, who delivered this monstrous decision.

 

Edited June 30, 20223 yr by Mark F

The planet will be okay. It's life on the planet that will suffer the consequences of our shortsighted and reckless ways, though.

3 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

The planet will be okay. It's life on the planet that will suffer the consequences of our shortsighted and reckless ways, though.

a planet without life is not ok.

we are reportedly going through a mass extinction process. thanks to us.

"Globally, up to 1 million species are at risk of extinction because of human activities, according to a United Nations report released in May. Many experts say a “mass extinction event” – only the sixth in the past half-billion years – is already underway. "

Edited June 30, 20223 yr by Mark F

10 minutes ago, Mark F said:

a planet without life is not ok.

we are reportedly going through a mass extinction process. thanks to us.

"Globally, up to 1 million species are at risk of extinction because of human activities, according to a United Nations report released in May. Many experts say a “mass extinction event” – only the sixth in the past half-billion years – is already underway. "

I'm not sure what you mean by okay. Human activity has harmed and continues to harm life on this planet, which is inexcusable. We can and should be collectively better stewards of this planet. But I simply meant this planet will continue to exist even if the life on it in its current format does not.

And as with other extinction events in the history of Planet Earth, I'd have to think life will likely find a way to re-emerge after this one in some way or another.

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

US supreme court delivers another piece of wreckage.

EPA can not regulate power plants.

this wrecking ball court, together with congress that does nothing. means big trouble.

 

"Justice Elena Kagan wrote a dissent, which was joined by the court’s two other liberals. “Today, the Court strips the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) of the power Congress gave it to respond to ’the most pressing environmental challenge of our time, ” Kagan wrote in the dissent.

“The Court appoints itself — instead of Congress or the expert agency—the decisionmaker on climate policy. I cannot think of many things more frightening,” Kagan wrote. She also said, “The majority claims it is just following precedent, but that is not so. The Court has never even used the term ‘major questions doctrine’ before.”

A White House spokesperson on Thursday said the EPA ruling was “another devastating decision from the Court that aims to take our country backwards.”"

no idea where the World is headed.  Emissions continue to rise, and I am thinking its basically over for the planet.  thankful that I am old, and will not be around twenty years from now to see the hellscape we have created.

worth noting, half of  democrats voted FOR sc judge John Roberts, who delivered this monstrous decision.

 

There is a term that describes this: "Ruling like an occupying army".