The Environment Thread

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, pigseye said:

It's not that it might be wrong, it's that it can debunked by any first year physics student:

The STUPIDITY of AGW.
 ----
 Trenberth's Energy Budget

 

 Incoming Solar Radiation = 342 w/m^2
Solar Radiation Absorbed by atmosphere = 67 w/m^2
 -------------------
 (342 - 67) Leaves 275 w/m^2 available.

 

 Reflected by Clouds etc. = 77 w/m^2
 Reflected by Surface = 30 w/m^2
 Total due to reflection = 107 w/m^2

 

 The percentage of reflected energy is 107/275 = 0.389 or 38.9%.

 

 Leaves 168 w/m^2 absorbed by the Surface of the Earth.

 

 168 w/m^2 and an emissivity of 1, gives a temperature of 233.31K or -39.69 deg C.
 --------------------
 Now what happens if the reflected energy was decreased by 1% to 37.9%?

 

 0.379 X 275 = 104.23 w/m^2 so an additional (107 - 104.23 = 2.77 w/m^2) is available to heat the Earth.

 

 168 + 2.77 = 170.77 w/m^2 is now absorbed by the Surface of the Earth.

 

 170.77 w/m^2 and an emissivity of 1, gives a temperature of 234.26K or -38.74 deg C.
 --------------

 

 The Earth just warmed by (39.69 - 38.74) 0.95 deg C !!

 

 That's just due to a ONE PERCENT change in reflected energy!!

 

 -----------------
 Why the Hell is anybody talking about CO2, positive feed-back loops, carbon taxes etc. to explain something so easily explained?

 

 Especially since the AGW'ers admit that their "computer models" can't and don't handle CLOUDS well and the SUN is the ONLY ENERGY SOURCE!
 -----------------
 AGW is UTTER STUPIDITY no matter how you look at it!

 

 

 

I don't understand why you are posting a specific reply (re: cherry pick) from a notorious troll on www.skepticalscience.com. You are being silly.

 

Seriously, it's all here: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php?p=10&t=1168&&a=18#3421

I mean Gord even gets schooled by another poster, Patrick 027- why would you even post the above when it was pretty much dismissed/disproven on the next page?

Anyways, not sure why you are so anti-science.

[Logan007]

Even if you put the science aside, all you need to do is use your eyes at how crappy some things are getting.  Our rivers look like brown sludge.  There's smog that pollutes the air in larger cities...including the entire country of China.  There's a giant plastic island forming in the Pacific ocean.  There are factories that blow big plumes of black smoke from their smoke stacks that can't really be good to breath in.

It shouldn't take much for us to say..."hey, maybe we should change the way we do things".  There are enough bad things out there that we can see with our eyes without even looking at climate change or scientific evidence.

[pigseye]

10 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

10 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I don't understand why you are posting a specific reply (re: cherry pick) from a notorious troll on www.skepticalscience.com. You are being silly.

 

Seriously, it's all here: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php?p=10&t=1168&&a=18#3421

I mean Gord even gets schooled by another poster, Patrick 027- why would you even post the above when it was pretty much dismissed/disproven on the next page?

Anyways, not sure why you are so anti-science.

I don't understand why you are posting a specific reply (re: cherry pick) from a notorious troll on www.skepticalscience.com. You are being silly.

 

Seriously, it's all here: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php?p=10&t=1168&&a=18#3421

I mean Gord even gets schooled by another poster, Patrick 027- why would you even post the above when it was pretty much dismissed/disproven on the next page?

Anyways, not sure why you are so anti-science.

Quote

These models must include all aspects of the atmosphere, surface and oceans which effect this balance in order to improve the accuracy of their predictions. Clouds are not well represented in these models due to a limited understanding of their energy characteristics (how well they absorb or reflect energy) and distribution (where and how many clouds there are).

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/outreach/education/science/clouds_and_climate.html

That's okay, you don't understand the energy balance but neither do the scientists creating the models. I would think that if we are going to base an entire political agenda on the 'science' them we should at least be sure we understand it before we do.

[pigseye]

Let's dispense with the hand waving.

This is about cheap labor and power in the developing world for the manufacturing industry and nothing more.

[basslicker]

On ‎2016‎-‎05‎-‎23 at 0:13 PM, pigseye said:

Let's dispense with the hand waving.

This is about cheap labor and power in the developing world for the manufacturing industry and nothing more.

'Going green' will mean the death of thousands in the poor and developing world.  They can't afford oil now, never mind alternative energy.  The world will be bankrupt and full of revolutions before we make any difference.  We are a rich country and even we're going bankrupt converting to this nonsense.  And now Notley here in Alberta is jumping on board with Wynne in destroying what's left of real industry in this country. 

Alberta has an MLA who loves Hugo Chavez, and we can all see what great good his plans have done to Venezuela.  

Edited May 27, 2016 by basslicker

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, basslicker said:

'Going green' will mean the death of thousands in the poor and developing world.  They can't afford oil now, never mind alternative energy.  The world will be bankrupt and full of revolutions before we make any difference.  We are a rich country and even we're going bankrupt converting to this nonsense.  And now Notley here in Alberta is jumping on board with Wynne in destroying what's left of real industry in this country. 

Alberta has an MLA who loves Hugo Chavez, and we can all see what great good his plans have done to Venezuela.  

You are aware Chavez died in 2013 right? 

[17to85]

On 17/05/2016 at 8:28 AM, pigseye said:

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/outreach/education/science/clouds_and_climate.html

That's okay, you don't understand the energy balance but neither do the scientists creating the models. I would think that if we are going to base an entire political agenda on the 'science' them we should at least be sure we understand it before we do.

The science is actually quite well understood, the trouble is modelling has too many variables to be precise. Doesn't necessarily mean you have to go balls to the walls switching to non CO2 producing energy but the science behind the greenhouse effect is legit. 

[pigseye]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 1:18 PM, 17to85 said:

The science is actually quite well understood, the trouble is modelling has too many variables to be precise. Doesn't necessarily mean you have to go balls to the walls switching to non CO2 producing energy but the science behind the greenhouse effect is legit. 

Sure, double the CO2, get 1 degree rise in temp, which is well within tolerable levels. What they can't agree on and what the models cannot accurately predict are the effects of the feedbacks. Will they triple that 1 degree or cut it in half? The science is not even close to being settled on the most important part, the feedbacks. Yet some governments like Wynne in Ontario are selling out on renewables, despite living in a northern climate, what a bunch of loons.

[pigseye]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 11:26 AM, basslicker said:

'Going green' will mean the death of thousands in the poor and developing world.  They can't afford oil now, never mind alternative energy.  The world will be bankrupt and full of revolutions before we make any difference.  We are a rich country and even we're going bankrupt converting to this nonsense.  And now Notley here in Alberta is jumping on board with Wynne in destroying what's left of real industry in this country. 

Alberta has an MLA who loves Hugo Chavez, and we can all see what great good his plans have done to Venezuela.  

They are building coal plants with our money to fuel the development.

[pigseye]

Ka-boom

http://www.cato.org/blog/climate-alarm-death-knell-sounds-again?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

 

The third study now coming out (one co-authored by NASA for those who insist this is just denier propaganda and seem to believe they are the only organization who produce scientific research).

I have no skin in this game but would just like to see the actual energy balance grounded in reality for a change.

[The Unknown Poster]

So we need to go back to using aerosols. Will save the planet. 

Or just sit tight for the inevitable cooling trend that always comes with cyclical climate change which the earth has always experienced.  Everything will be okay. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

5 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

So we need to go back to using aerosols. Will save the planet. 

Or just sit tight for the inevitable cooling trend that always comes with cyclical climate change which the earth has always experienced.  Everything will be okay. 

I Think #58 & #173 below would be of interest to you.

Below is a pretty comprehensive list of arguments and links to some really good information. Honestly, give it a shot- if you have a reason for an argument- just ctrl + F and enter in a key word or two and look up the argument and check what the counter argument is. 

 

Global Warming & Climate Change Arguments

Here is a summary of global warming and climate change arguments, sorted by recent popularity vs what science says. Click the response for a more detailed response. You can also view them sorted by taxonomy, by popularity, in a print-friendly version, with short URLs or with fixed numbers you can use for permanent references.

	Climate Argument	vs	What the Science Says
1	"Climate's changed before"		Climate reacts to whatever forces it to change at the time; humans are now the dominant forcing.
2	"It's the sun"		In the last 35 years of global warming, sun andclimate have been going in opposite directions
3	"It's not bad"		Negative impacts of global warming on agriculture, health & environment far outweigh any positives.
4	"There is no consensus"		97% of climate experts agree humans are causing global warming.
5	"It's cooling"		The last decade 2000-2009 was the hottest on record.
6	"Models are unreliable"		Models successfully reproduce temperatures since 1900 globally, by land, in the air and the ocean.
7	"Temp record is unreliable"		The warming trend is the same in rural and urban areas, measured by thermometers and satellites.
8	"Animals and plants can adapt"		Global warming will cause mass extinctions of species that cannot adapt on short time scales.
9	"It hasn't warmed since 1998"		Every part of the Earth's climate system has continued warming since 1998, with 2015 shattering temperature records.
10	"Antarctica is gaining ice"		Satellites measure Antarctica losing land ice at an accelerating rate.
11	"Ice age predicted in the 70s"		The vast majority of climate papers in the 1970s predicted warming.
12	"CO2 lags temperature"		CO2 didn't initiate warming from past ice ages but it did amplify the warming.
13	"Climate sensitivity is low"		Net positive feedback is confirmed by many different lines of evidence.
14	"We're heading into an ice age"		Worry about global warming impacts in the next 100 years, not an ice age in over 10,000 years.
15	"Ocean acidificationisn't serious"		Ocean acidification threatens entire marine food chains.
16	"Hockey stick is broken"		Recent studies agree that recent global temperatures are unprecedented in the last 1000 years.
17	"Climategate CRU emails suggest conspiracy"		A number of investigations have cleared scientists of any wrongdoing in the media-hyped email incident.
18	"Hurricanes aren't linked to global warming"		There is increasing evidence that hurricanes are getting stronger due to global warming.
19	"Al Gore got it wrong"		Al Gore's book is quite accurate, and far more accurate than contrarian books.
20	"Glaciers are growing"		Most glaciers are retreating, posing a serious problem for millions who rely on glaciers for water.
21	"It's cosmic rays"		Cosmic rays show no trend over the last 30 years & have had little impact on recent global warming.
22	"1934 - hottest year on record"		1934 was one of the hottest years in the US, not globally.
23	"It's freaking cold!"		A local cold day has nothing to do with the long-termtrend of increasing global temperatures.
24	"Extreme weather isn't caused by global warming"		Extreme weather events are being made more frequent and worse by global warming.
25	"Sea level rise is exaggerated"		A variety of different measurements find steadily rising sea levels over the past century.
26	"It's Urban Heat Island effect"		Urban and rural regions show the same warmingtrend.
27	"Medieval Warm Period was warmer"		Globally averaged temperature now is higher than global temperature in medieval times.
28	"Mars is warming"		Mars is not warming globally.
29	"Arctic icemelt is a natural cycle"		Thick arctic sea ice is undergoing a rapid retreat.
30	"Increasing CO2 has little to no effect"		The strong CO2 effect has been observed by many different measurements.
31	"Oceans are cooling"		The most recent ocean measurements show consistent warming.
32	"It's a 1500 year cycle"		Ancient natural cycles are irrelevant for attributing recent global warming to humans.
33	"Human CO2 is a tiny % of CO2emissions"		The natural cycle adds and removes CO2 to keep a balance; humans add extra CO2 without removing any.
34	"IPCC is alarmist"		Numerous papers have documented how IPCC predictions are more likely to underestimate theclimate response.
35	"Water vapor is the most powerfulgreenhouse gas"		Rising CO2 increases atmospheric water vapor, which makes global warming much worse.
36	"Polar bear numbers are increasing"		Polar bears are in danger of extinction as well as many other species.
37	"CO2 limits will harm the economy"		The benefits of a price on carbon outweigh the costs several times over.
38	"It's not happening"		There are many lines of evidence indicating global warming is unequivocal.
39	"Greenland was green"		Other parts of the earth got colder when Greenland got warmer.
40	"Greenland is gaining ice"		Greenland on the whole is losing ice, as confirmed by satellite measurement.
41	"CO2 is not a pollutant"		Through its impacts on the climate, CO2 presents a danger to public health and welfare, and thus qualifies as an air pollutant
42	"CO2 is plant food"		The effects of enhanced CO2 on terrestrial plants are variable and complex and dependent on numerous factors
43	"Other planets are warming"		Mars and Jupiter are not warming, and anyway the sun has recently been cooling slightly.
44	"Arctic sea ice has recovered"		Thick arctic sea ice is in rapid retreat.
45	"There's no empirical evidence"		There are multiple lines of direct observations that humans are causing global warming.
46	"There's no correlation betweenCO2 and temperature"		There is long-term correlation between CO2 and global temperature; other effects are short-term.
47	"We're coming out of the Little Ice Age"		Scientists have determined that the factors which caused the Little Ice Age cooling are not currently causing global warming
48	"It cooled mid-century"		Mid-century cooling involved aerosols and is irrelevant for recent global warming.
49	"Global warming stopped in 1998,1995, 2002, 2007,2010, ????"		Global temperature is still rising and 2010 was the hottest recorded.
50	"CO2 was higher in the past"		When CO2 was higher in the past, the sun was cooler.
51	"It warmed before 1940 when CO2 was low"		Early 20th century warming is due to several causes, including rising CO2.
52	"Satellites show no warming in thetroposphere"		The most recent satellite data show that the earth as a whole is warming.
53	"It's aerosols"		Aerosols have been masking global warming, which would be worse otherwise.
54	"2009-2010 winter saw record cold spells"		A cold day in Chicago in winter has nothing to do with the trend of global warming.
55	"It's El Niño"		El Nino has no trend and so is not responsible for the trend of global warming.
56	"Mt. Kilimanjaro's ice loss is due to land use"		Most glaciers are in rapid retreat worldwide, notwithstanding a few complicated cases.
57	"It's not us"		Multiple sets of independent observations find a human fingerprint on climate change.
58	"It's a natural cycle"		No known natural forcing fits the fingerprints of observed warming except anthropogenicgreenhouse gases.
59	"There's no tropospheric hot spot"		We see a clear "short-term hot spot" - there's various evidence for a "long-term hot spot".
60	"It's Pacific Decadal Oscillation"		The PDO shows no trend, and therefore the PDO is not responsible for the trend of global warming.
61	"Scientists can't even predict weather"		Weather and climate are different; climate predictions do not need weather detail.
62	"IPCC were wrong about Himalayanglaciers"		Glaciers are in rapid retreat worldwide, despite 1 error in 1 paragraph in a 1000 page IPCC report.
63	"Greenhouse effecthas been falsified"		The greenhouse effect is standard physics and confirmed by observations.
64	"2nd law of thermodynamics contradicts greenhouse theory"		The 2nd law of thermodynamics is consistent with the greenhouse effect which is directly observed.
65	"CO2 limits will hurt the poor"		Those who contribute the least greenhouse gases will be most impacted by climate change.
66	"Clouds provide negative feedback"		Evidence is building that net cloud feedback is likely positive and unlikely to be strongly negative.
67	"The science isn't settled"		That human CO2 is causing global warming is known with high certainty & confirmed by observations.
68	"Sea level rise predictions are exaggerated"		Sea level rise is now increasing faster than predicted due to unexpectedly rapid ice melting.
69	"It's the ocean"		The oceans are warming and moreover are becoming more acidic, threatening the food chain.
70	"IPCC were wrong about Amazon rainforests"		The IPCC statement on Amazon rainforests was correct, and was incorrectly reported in some media.
71	"Corals are resilient to bleaching"		Globally about 1% of coral is dying out each year.
72	"CO2 effect is saturated"		Direct measurements find that rising CO2 is trapping more heat.
73	"Volcanoes emit more CO2 than humans"		Humans emit 100 times more CO2 than volcanoes.
74	"Greenland ice sheet won't collapse"		When Greenland was 3 to 5 degrees C warmer than today, a large portion of the Ice Sheet melted.
75	"CO2 is just a trace gas"		Many substances are dangerous even in trace amounts; what really matters is the total amount ofCO2 in the atmosphere.
76	"It's methane"		Methane plays a minor role in global warming but could get much worse if permafrost starts to melt.
77	"500 scientists refute the consensus"		Around 97% of climate experts agree that humans are causing global warming.
78	"CO2 has a short residence time"		Excess CO2 from human emissions has a long residence time of over 100 years
79	"CO2measurements are suspect"		CO2 levels are measured by hundreds of stations across the globe, all reporting the same trend.
80	"Humidity is falling"		Multiple lines of independent evidence indicate humidity is rising and provides positive feedback.
81	"Neptune is warming"		And the sun is cooling.
82	"Springs aren't advancing"		Hundreds of flowers across the UK are flowering earlier now than any time in 250 years.
83	"Jupiter is warming"		Jupiter is not warming, and anyway the sun is cooling.
84	"It's land use"		Land use plays a minor role in climate change, although carbon sequestration may help to mitigate.
85	"Scientists tried to 'hide the decline' in global temperature"		The 'decline' refers to a decline in northern tree-rings, not global temperature, and is openly discussed in papers and the IPCC reports.
86	"CO2 is not increasing"		CO2 is increasing rapidly, and is reaching levels not seen on the earth for millions of years.
87	"Record snowfall disproves global warming"		Warming leads to increased evaporation and precipitation, which falls as increased snow in winter.
88	"They changed the name from 'global warming' to 'climate change'"		'Global warming' and 'climate change' mean different things and have both been used for decades.
89	"Solar Cycle Length proves its the sun"		The sun has not warmed since 1970 and so cannot be driving global warming.
90	"CO2 is coming from the ocean"		The ocean is absorbing massive amounts of CO2, and is becoming more acidic as a result.
91	"IPCC overestimate temperature rise"		Monckton used the IPCC equation in an inappropriate manner.
92	"Pluto is warming"		And the sun has been recently cooling.
93	"CO2 is not the only driver of climate"		Theory, models and direct measurement confirmCO2 is currently the main driver of climate change.
94	"Peer review process was corrupted"		An Independent Review concluded that CRU's actions were normal and didn't threaten the integrity of peer review.
95	"Arctic was warmer in 1940"		The actual data show high northern latitudes are warmer today than in 1940.
96	"Renewable energy is too expensive"		When you account for all of the costs associated with burning coal and other fossil fuels, like air pollution and health effects, in reality they are significantly more expensive than most renewable energysources.
97	"Southern sea ice is increasing"		Antarctic sea ice has grown in recent decades despite the Southern Ocean warming at the same time.
98	"Sea level rise is decelerating"		Global sea level data shows that sea level rise has been increasing since 1880 while future sea level rise predictions are based on physics, not statistics.
99	"CO2 limits will make little difference"		If every nation agrees to limit CO2 emissions, we can achieve significant cuts on a global scale.
100	"It's microsite influences"		Microsite influences on temperature changes are minimal; good and bad sites show the same trend.
101	"Lindzen and Choi find low climate sensitivity"		Lindzen and Choi’s paper is viewed as unacceptably flawed by other climate scientists.
102	"Phil Jones says no global warming since 1995"		Phil Jones was misquoted.
103	"Humans are too insignificant to affect global climate"		Humans are small but powerful, and human CO2emissions are causing global warming.
104	"Infrared Iris will reduce global warming"		The iris hypothesis has not withstood the test of time - subsequent research has found that if it exists, the effect is much smaller than originally hypothesized, and may even slightly amplify rather than reducing global warming.
105	"Dropped stations introduce warming bias"		If the dropped stations had been kept, the temperature would actually be slightly higher.
106	"It's too hard"		Scientific studies have determined that current technology is sufficient to reduce greenhouse gasemissions enough to avoid dangerous climate change.
107	"It's not urgent"		A large amount of warming is delayed, and if we don’t act now we could pass tipping points.
108	"It's albedo"		Albedo change in the Arctic, due to receding ice, is increasing global warming.
109	"Tree-rings diverge from temperature after 1960"		This is a detail that is complex, local, and irrelevant to the observed global warming trend.
110	"It's soot"		Soot stays in the atmosphere for days to weeks;carbon dioxide causes warming for centuries.
111	"Roy Spencer finds negative feedback"		Spencer's model is too simple, excluding important factors like ocean dynamics and treats cloud feedbacks as forcings.
112	"Hansen's 1988 prediction was wrong"		Jim Hansen had several possible scenarios; his mid-level scenario B was right.
113	"It's global brightening"		This is a complex aerosol effect with unclear temperature significance.
114	"Earth hasn't warmed as much as expected"		This argument ignores the cooling effect of aerosolsand the planet's thermal inertia.
115	"Arctic sea ice loss is matched by Antarctic sea icegain"		Arctic sea ice loss is three times greater than Antarctic sea ice gain.
116	"It's a climate regimeshift"		There is no evidence that climate has chaotic “regimes” on a long-term basis.
117	"Solar cycles cause global warming"		Over recent decades, the sun has been slightly cooling & is irrelevant to recent global warming.
118	"Less than half of published scientists endorse global warming"		Around 97% of climate experts agree that humans are causing global warming.
119	"Plant stomata show higher and more variable CO2 levels"		Stomatal data is not as direct as ice coremeasurements and hence not as precise.
120	"Over 31,000 scientists signed the OISM Petition Project"		The 'OISM petition' was signed by only a few climatologists.
121	"Ice isn't melting"		Arctic sea ice has shrunk by an area equal to Western Australia, and summer or multi-year sea icemight be all gone within a decade.
122	"A drop in volcanic activity caused warming"		Volcanoes have had no warming effect in recent global warming - if anything, a cooling effect.
123	"IPCC ‘disappeared’ the Medieval Warm Period"		The IPCC simply updated their temperature history graphs to show the best data available at the time.
124	"Climate is chaotic and cannot be predicted"		Weather is chaotic but climate is driven by Earth's energy imbalance, which is more predictable.
125	"Sea level is not rising"		The claim sea level isn’t rising is based on blatantly doctored graphs contradicted by observations.
126	"It's ozone"		Ozone has only a small effect.
127	"Freedom of Information (FOI) requests were ignored"		An independent inquiry found CRU is a small research unit with limited resources and their rigour and honesty are not in doubt.
128	"Climate 'Skeptics' are like Galileo"		Modern scientists, not anti-science skeptics, follow in Galileo’s footsteps.
129	"The IPCC consensus is phoney"		113 nations signed onto the 2007 IPCC report, which is simply a summary of the current body of climatescience evidence
130	"Tuvalu sea level isn't rising"		Tuvalu sea level is rising 3 times larger than the global average.
131	"Naomi Oreskes' study on consensus was flawed"		Benny Peiser, the Oreskes critic, retracted his criticism.
132	"Renewables can't provide baseload power"		A number of renewable sources already do provide baseload power, and we don't need renewables to provide a large percentage of baseload power immediately.
133	"Trenberth can't account for the lack of warming"		Trenberth is talking about the details of energy flow, not whether global warming is happening.
134	"Ice Sheet losses are overestimated"		A number of independent measurements find extensive ice loss from Antarctica and Greenland.
135	"CRU tampered with temperature data"		An independent inquiry went back to primary datasources and were able to replicate CRU's results.
136	"Melting ice isn't warming the Arctic"		Melting ice leads to more sunlight being absorbed by water, thus heating the Arctic.
137	"Breathing contributes to CO2buildup"		By breathing out, we are simply returning to the air the same CO2 that was there to begin with.
138	"Satellite error inflated Great Lakes temperatures"		Temperature errors in the Great Lakes region are not used in any global temperature records.
139	"Soares finds lack of correlation betweenCO2 and temperature"		Soares looks at short-term trends which are swamped by natural variations while ignoring the long-term correlation.
140	"We're heading into cooling"		There is no scientific basis for claims that the planet will begin to cool in the near future.
141	"Murry Salby findsCO2 rise is natural"		Multiple lines of evidence make it very clear that the rise in atmospheric CO2 is due to human emissions.
142	"Most of the last 10,000 years were warmer"		This argument uses regional temperature data that ends in 1855, long before modern global warming began.
143	"CO2 emissions do not correlate withCO2 concentration"		That humans are causing the rise in atmosphericCO2 is confirmed by multiple isotopic analyses.
144	"The sun is getting hotter"		The sun has just had the deepest solar minimum in 100 years.
145	"It's waste heat"		Greenhouse warming is adding 100 times more heatto the climate than waste heat.
146	"Water vapor in thestratospherestopped global warming"		This possibility just means that future global warming could be even worse.
147	"It warmed just as fast in 1860-1880 and 1910-1940"		The warming trend over 1970 to 2001 is greater than warming from both 1860 to 1880 and 1910 to 1940.
148	"An exponential increase in CO2 will result in a linear increase in temperature"		CO2 levels are rising so fast that unless we decrease emissions, global warming will accelerate this century.
149	"Record high snow cover was set in winter 2008/2009"		Winter snow cover in 2008/2009 was average while the long-term trend in spring, summer, and annual snow cover is rapid decline.
150	"Mauna Loa is a volcano"		The global trend is calculated from hundreds of CO2measuring stations and confirmed by satellites.
151	"CERN CLOUD experiment proved cosmic rays are causing global warming"		The CERN CLOUD experiment only tested one-third of one out of four requirements necessary to blame global warming on cosmic rays, and two of the other requirements have already failed.
152	"Venus doesn't have a runawaygreenhouse effect"		Venus very likely underwent a runaway or ‘moist’ greenhouse phase earlier in its history, and today is kept hot by a dense CO2 atmosphere.
153	"Deniers are part of the 97%"		If anyone claims to be part of the 97 percent, it means they disagree with the contrarian argument that humans are having a minimal impact on global warming.
154	"Water levels correlate withsunspots"		This detail is irrelevant to the observation of global warming caused by humans.
155	"It's planetary movements"		Blaming global warming on the movements of other planets is little more than 'climastrology' and curve fitting without a physical basis.
156	"Antarctica is too cold to lose ice"		Glaciers are sliding faster into the ocean because ice shelves are thinning due to warming oceans.
157	"Positive feedbackmeans runaway warming"		Positive feedback won't lead to runaway warming; diminishing returns on feedback cycles limit the amplification.
158	"Skeptics were kept out of the IPCC?"		Official records, Editors and emails suggest CRU scientists acted in the spirit if not the letter of IPCC rules.
159	"CO2 was higher in the late Ordovician"		The sun was much cooler during the Ordovician.
160	"Coral atolls grow as sea levels rise"		Thousands of coral atolls have "drowned" when unable to grow fast enough to survive at sea level.
161	"It's internal variability"		Internal variability can only account for small amounts of warming and cooling over periods of decades, and scientific studies have consistently shown that it cannot account for the global warming over the past century.
162	"CO2 increase is natural, not human-caused"		Many lines of evidence, including simple accounting, demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that the increase in atmospheric CO2 is due to human fossil fuel burning.
163	"It's CFCs"		CFCs contribute at a small level.
164	"Scientists retracted claim that sea levels are rising"		The Siddall 2009 paper was retracted because its predicted sea level rise was too low.
165	"Warming causesCO2 rise"		Recent warming is due to rising CO2.
166	"Renewable energy investment kills jobs"		Investment in renewable energy creates more jobs than investment in fossil fuel energy.
167	"Schmittner finds lowclimate sensitivity"		The Schmittner et al. study finds low probability of both very low and very high climate sensitivities, and its lower estimate (as compared to the IPCC) is based on a new temperature reconstruction of theLast Glacial Maximum that may or may not withstand the test of time.
168	"No warming in 16 years"		Global surface temperatures have continued to rise steadily beneath short-term natural cooling effects, and the rise in global heat content has not slowed at all.
169	"Greenland has only lost a tiny fraction of its ice mass"		Greenland's ice loss is accelerating & will add metres of sea level rise in upcoming centuries.
170	"DMI show cooling Arctic"		While summer maximums have showed little trend, the annual average Arctic temperature has risen sharply in recent decades.
171	"Ben Santer and the 1995 IPCC report"
172	"CO2 limits won't cool the planet"		CO2 limits won't cool the planet, but they can make the difference between continued accelerating global warming to catastrophic levels vs. slowing and eventually stopping the warming at hopefully safe levels
173	"It's a climate shift step function caused by natural cycles"		Natural cycles superimposed on a linear warmingtrend can be mistaken for step changes, but the underlying warming is caused by the externalradiative forcing.
174	"Royal Society embraces skepticism"		The Royal Society still strongly state that human activity is the dominant cause of global warming.
175	"It's only a few degrees"		A few degrees of global warming has a huge impact on ice sheets, sea levels and other aspects ofclimate.
176	"97% consensus on human-caused global warming has been disproven"		The 97% consensus has been independently confirmed by a number of different approaches and lines of evidence.
177	"It's satellite microwave transmissions"		Satellite transmissions are extremely small and irrelevant.
178	"CO2 only causes 35% of global warming"		CO2 and corresponding water vapor feedback are the biggest cause of global warming.
179	"IPCC graph showing accelerating trends is misleading"		All of the statements made in the IPCC report regarding the figure in question are correct and supported.
180	"Sea level fell in 2010"		The temporary drop in sea level in 2010 was due to intense land flooding caused by a strong La Nina.
181	"Arctic sea ice extent was lower in the past"		Current Arctic sea ice extent is the lowest in the past several thousand years.
182	"A grand solar minimum could trigger another ice age"		Peer-reviewed research, physics, and math all tell us that a grand solar minimum would have no more than a 0.3°C cooling effect, barely enough to put a dent in human-caused global warming.
183	"UAH atmospheric temperatures proveclimate models and/or surface temperature data sets are wrong"		The most likely explanation for UAH data warming less than expected is that the UAH data set is biased low.
184	"We didn't have global warming during the Industrial Revolution"		CO2 emissions were much smaller 100 years ago.
185	"Ljungqvist broke the hockey stick"		Ljungqvist's temperature reconstruction is very similar to other reconstructions by Moberg and Mann.
186	"Hansen predicted the West Side Highway would be underwater"		Hansen was speculating on changes that might happen if CO2 doubled.
187	"Removing all CO2would make little difference"		Removing CO2 would cause most water in the air to rain out and cancel most of the greenhouse effect.
188	"Loehle and Scafetta find a 60 year cycle causing global warming"		Loehle and Scafetta's paper is nothing more than a curve fitting exercise with no physical basis using an overly simplistic model.
189	"Postma disproved the greenhouse effect"		Postma's model contains many simple errors; in no way does Postma undermine the existence or necessity of the greenhouse effect.
190	"Underground temperatures controlclimate"		The amount of heat energy coming out of the Earth is too small to even be worth considering.
191	"Humans survived past climate changes"		Humans have been through climate changes before- but mostly cold ones and mostly in our far distant past.
192	"Heatwaves have happened before"		Global warming is increasing the frequency, duration and intensity of heatwaves.
193	"Adapting to global warming is cheaper than preventing it"		Preventing global warming is relatively cheap; business-as-usual will cause accelerating climatedamage costs that economists struggle to even estimate.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by wanna-b-fanboy

[The Unknown Poster]

Blah blah blah.  The planet warms. The planet cools. Before humans. During humans. After humans. 

[pigseye]

That's all folks.

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2016/160608/ncomms11719/abs/ncomms11719.html

Quote

Bombshell study: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate fluctuations for hundreds of years at a time’

Leave it to NASA and the U of Australia to tell it like it is.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

 

 

Edited June 14, 2016 by wanna-b-fanboy

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

"You cannot reason someone out of something he or she was not reasoned into."

 

-  Jonathan Swift

[basslicker]

On 27/05/2016 at 11:48 AM, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

You are aware Chavez died in 2013 right? 

yes, but their problems didn't magically start after his death 

[pigseye]

Quote

The environmental impacts of the modern infrastructure tsunami could easily dwarf climate change and many other human pressures, as thousands of projects penetrate into the world’s last surviving wild areas. Roughly 90% of the new projects are in developing nations, often in the tropics or subtropics which harbour the planet’s biologically richest and environmentally most critical ecosystems.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/development-banks-infrastructure-tsunami-environment.html

Hard to believe we can be so focused on AGW when the real crisis is starring them straight in the face.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

3 hours ago, pigseye said:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/development-banks-infrastructure-tsunami-environment.html

Hard to believe we can be so focused on AGW when the real crisis is starring them straight in the face.

Interesting that you would start to say "we", then switch onus to "them". not sure what to make of that...

 

Anyways- you're right: because tackling multiple problems, with multiple resources is totally unheard of and is a completely unimaginable concept.

[basslicker]

On ‎2016‎-‎06‎-‎11 at 10:26 PM, The Unknown Poster said:

Blah blah blah.  The planet warms. The planet cools. Before humans. During humans. After humans. 

And it will continue to do so, whether the government steals my money or not, because...feelings

[pigseye]

1 hour ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Interesting that you would start to say "we", then switch onus to "them". not sure what to make of that...

 

Anyways- you're right: because tackling multiple problems, with multiple resources is totally unheard of and is a completely unimaginable concept.

Here is what former United Nations climate official Ottmar Edenhofer, who co-chaired the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change working group on Mitigation of Climate Change from 2008 to 2015 said.

“One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with the environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole,” “We redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy,”

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

On 6/17/2016 at 4:28 PM, pigseye said:

Here is what former United Nations climate official Ottmar Edenhofer, who co-chaired the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change working group on Mitigation of Climate Change from 2008 to 2015 said.

“One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with the environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole,” “We redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy,”

Here is the full quote:

Quote

 

But one must say clearly: We distribute by the climate policy de facto the world assets to. That the owners of coal and oil which are not enthusiastic, is obvious. One has to free himself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has to do with environmental policy, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole, almost nothing.

Nevertheless, the environment suffers from climate change - especially in the South.

 

It was originally quoted in German here:

http://www.nzz.ch/klimapolitik-verteilt-das-weltvermoegen-neu-1.8373227

 

Once again- cherry-picking quotes is not helpful to the argument, much like cherry-picking data.

 

 

[Fatty Liver]

On 6/14/2016 at 3:58 PM, basslicker said:

yes, but their problems didn't magically start after his death 

Nor did many of Venezuela's problems begin with his landslide election victory, they are endemic of an economy relying too heavily on oil revenues, similar to AB.  You can easily blame the govt. of the moment if that fits your political belief in the boogieman.  Curious, are you really interested in S. American politics in general or just the regions that produce oil?

[kelownabomberfan]

18 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

.  You can easily blame the govt. of the moment if that fits your political belief in the boogieman. 

Oh man did I laugh at this one.  What a cop-out.  The Chavez socialists are brutally corrupt and they have managed to systemically destroy the entire country.  Calling them a "boogieman" is a grave disservice to a brutal and stupid regime.  Ridiculous.

[basslicker]

On ‎2016‎-‎06‎-‎22 at 3:17 PM, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Nor did many of Venezuela's problems begin with his landslide election victory, they are endemic of an economy relying too heavily on oil revenues, similar to AB.  You can easily blame the govt. of the moment if that fits your political belief in the boogieman.  Curious, are you really interested in S. American politics in general or just the regions that produce oil?

It wasn't their reliance on oil that was the problem but the wide-spread corruption and abuse of power and the all around cruminess that is socialism.  Have money? Socialism will waste it and leave you poor and raiding grocery stores for food.  Venezuela should be a warning of the dangers of socialism.....like the world needed ANOTHER one, but people just don't seem to learn.

 

And to answer your question, I'm interested in seeing what destroys a country, any country and to see what we can learn from others' mistakes.

Edited June 24, 2016 by basslicker