The Unknown Poster Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Jets are sold out every game. Yeah the arena is the smallest but it's sold out every game. If your arena seats 18000 and you get 12 13000. That's drawing less than the Jets. Jets can only get 15 and a bit out to games at mts Centre. Just cuz mts is small it doesn't mean the jets are the worst draw in the league. If they had a 17 18000 seat arena they would sell out. Too bad this city not build for the future. How can anyone who seeks out a sports forum like this still be under the mistaken impression the MTSC is either too small or the city was short-sighted in building it that size? This has been talked about to death. The city actually insisted the arena be built to the current size. True North wanted a smaller one at a time when they had no desire to pursue the NHL. They wanted a "palace" for the Moose that was significantly cheaper than what they got but Glenn Murray held out city money to make sure it was built this size. Thats why its also very, very cramped. The negative on the city's part was they did not allow the the arena to build over-hanging the streets on either side, supposedly because they didnt want "tunnels" (even though they have allowed it now for the Convention Centre). Some people seem to think that the Jets generate the same revenue on 15,000 tickets as some of these giant arenas generate on 15,000 tickets and it's not so. I believe Jets are third highest ticket price in the NHL which means 15,000 tickets here is equal to 18,000 tickets in other places. But it also creates a huge demand. The Jets could sell out 18,000. But we have a 15,000 seater so they sell out every game and the price is higher and the demand is greater and we have a massive wait list of people who pay for the privilege of simply having their name on a list. I think we're fine. If you want to talk about planning for the future, talk about where the next arena will go in about 30 years. My vote is Portage Place in some sort of development/swap deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Pop Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Jets are sold out every game. Yeah the arena is the smallest but it's sold out every game. If your arena seats 18000 and you get 12 13000. That's drawing less than the Jets. Jets can only get 15 and a bit out to games at mts Centre. Just cuz mts is small it doesn't mean the jets are the worst draw in the league. If they had a 17 18000 seat arena they would sell out. Too bad this city not build for the future. I'm of the opinion that if we had an 18,000 seat building right now it would actually be worse off for the long term health of the Jets. Look at it this way, we're 5 seasons into the team being back and demand for tickets is still strong. Best evidence of this to me is the ST renewal rate. Now imagine 4+ seasons, 41 games per season and an extra few thousand tickets available for each game. That's easily 100,000 extra tickets that would have been sold by now. Sure, the revenue from those would be nice for the TNSE bottom line - but that's short term thinking. Long term thinking is "how do we ensure our building is sold out....forever." Also - why people (continually) focus on actual tickets sold is beyond me. Ticket revenue is what counts; and last I've heard the Jets are still right in the middle of the league in terms of how much $$$ they generate from ticket sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducky Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 It should have been built so that if they wanted to expand, it would be easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 It should have been built so that if they wanted to expand, it would be easy. It is easy to say that but the work to get the funding, the land, the buy in is very difficult and complex. Look at the outrage there was when they tore down Eatons. Many competing groups and diversified interests all play a part. They built the best arena they could at the time and had the foresight to make sure it would be big enough IF the NHL ever returned. It is a little cramped and small for total size, but it is part of the charm that has accompanied the return of the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 It should have been built so that if they wanted to expand, it would be easy. Were you going to pay for it? Where would you have put it? Because there were requirements for government funding. I have an idea, why doesnt True North just build a 50,000 person arena at Portage and Main. They can buy all those buildings and tear them down to make room. Then it will be future proof. Oh thats silly? So is any suggestion of what they "should" have done in 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducky Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I would have put it in the same spot with a design to expand easily. This is done daily only hospitals and sports arenas/stadiums. Why wasn't it done here? because of short sighted people like you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducky Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I would have put it in the same spot with a design to expand easily. This is done daily only hospitals and sports arenas/stadiums. Why wasn't it done here? because of short sighted people like you... I agree with you. Hold on, let me grab my pot of gold and money tree and Ill meet you to discuss an expansion plan. Ill meet you at Timmy's. Ill be the guy arriving on my unicorn. But seriously, where would you expand it? Up? Across Portage? It has a pretty defined foot-print. As I said, the builders wanted to have the second level hanging over the street but were denied by the city. Im not sure that would have allowed more seats or just wider seats or more amenities. No clue. But I do know this notion that they "should" have built it bigger rears its ugly head every so often by people that dont know any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustamente Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Smaller is better has also been proved in baseball, in the 70's everybody was building 60k and up, look at all the new baseball stadiums they are all under 50k. Only Coors field and Dodger stadium seat over 50k of all mlb stadiums. Even the older parks have been downsized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducky Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I didn't say they should have built it bigger....where did I say that. You are reading what is not there. I said they should have built it with a design that would have allowed expansion more easily if needed. Lots of people on waiting list....maybe they would have looked at putting in another 1500-2000 seats if warranted. |I| think you should show up at Timmy's on your Dodo bird to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyWinnipeg Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'm old enough to have been granted ranting ability about this city. It's an old argument...Winnipeg does not build for the future. Other cities do. Smaller cities then us. Saskatoon, Hamilton, QC, Fargo, Wichita, Omaha, etc. If they had to close one lane of Hargrave well then you know it's too small even without talking about expansion. The 90s idea of the lots between Edmonton and Hargraves was doable for a location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I didn't say they should have built it bigger....where did I say that. You are reading what is not there. I said they should have built it with a design that would have allowed expansion more easily if needed. Lots of people on waiting list....maybe they would have looked at putting in another 1500-2000 seats if warranted. |I| think you should show up at Timmy's on your Dodo bird to be honest. Expandable in what way? I have a feeling I know what your answer is and I will gladly retort. Expandable in what way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I didn't say they should have built it bigger....where did I say that. You are reading what is not there. I said they should have built it with a design that would have allowed expansion more easily if needed. Lots of people on waiting list....maybe they would have looked at putting in another 1500-2000 seats if warranted. |I| think you should show up at Timmy's on your Dodo bird to be honest. But again, based on the location, how are you going to expand? The allotted land doesn't really allow for the physical expansion. Fwiw, I'm very much in the boat of "Selling out a smaller barn and creating your own demand is better than a 3/4 full bigger rink where tix are always available..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducky Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'm neither an engineer nor an architect but I do know buildings are being built like this all over th world....just not in Winnipeg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'm neither an engineer nor an architect but I do know buildings are being built like this all over th world....just not in Winnipeg. What buildings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Yeah. What buildings exactly. And just for the record there is one in Winnipeg that's being built now... the convention center but... when MTS was built... it was a different time and Era. It's easy to say should have could have but... the reality at that time was they couldn't so they didn't. For real... go Google the mts center and articles from when it was built. .. so much opposition. Hell, they had to reuse some old Eaton bricks just so that Eatons group would shut up. The arena wasn't supposed to look like it does in its original concept. It was changed to shut up groups against it. Where's the fake northern lights above the arena. It was there in the original drawings bur so much had to change. So so much. Lol at thinking they could have blocked off Hargreaves. Not a chance. As is they had a pretty tough time getting it done. The Unknown Poster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducky Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 The Selkirk hospital is one I can think of off the top of my head. They are closing it due to other issues but it was built with an easy expansion in mind. Tell me how this is not a good idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 It simply was and is not applicable in this situation. To suggest it was is extremely liberal revisionist history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducky Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 you live in Winnipeg right? Winnipeg attitude. I am done with this debate....Winnipeg attitudes all around, surprising MTS Center has a roof on it! FrostyWinnipeg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 you live in Winnipeg right? Winnipeg attitude. I am done with this debate....Winnipeg attitudes all around, surprising MTS Center has a roof on it! Don't be that way. At least admit you were wrong. I agree with your sentiment but it doesn't apply here. You can't compare a square building to an arena. How on earth could mtsc have been built with expansion in mind? First there is no room around it. Even if there was it's not like you just another wing like at a hospital. I assumed you'd say add seats to the top, raise the roof. But that's spending the most money for the cheapest seats. Makes no sense. They expanded HSC by building on an empty lot next door. Not applicable to an arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Go back to when MTS Centre was built instead of pretending. It wasn't possible. Just curious but how big should it be and why. Cuz 15000 plus was pretty huge for a rink built for an ahl team. So say we built a 18000 seat arena... and there is no Jets? Arenas aren't and never will be built with expansion in mind. It's that simple. If in 20 years 15000 plus isn't enough a new one will be built. But... without mts and it's 15000 seats... the Jets aren't in Winnipeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 They should have built it near a University... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 There simply wasn't room for 18000 seats. There was barely room for 15000 seats. The only way would have been to add a third bowl and the cost is prohibitive to add 3000 cheap seats. It's a very moot discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyWinnipeg Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 They should have built it near a University... Only if that Uni has parking. Nice empty golf course north of the Uni though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 They should have built it near a University... Only if that Uni has parking. Nice empty golf course north of the Uni though. Wouldnt build on University property. True North would have no development opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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