You've probably all heard the story of Sandra Bland, stopped by a Texas Trooper for failing to signal.  The trooper and Bland end up having a tense verbal exchange and she is arrested even though the Trooper had decided to let her go with a warning.

 

She ended up dying in jail a few days later as the result of an apparent suicide.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/21/us/texas-sandra-bland-arrest/index.html

 

The video of the arrest is at that link.

 

I think one thing that surprises me, in the wake of the hyper-sensitivity to police actions, why the Trooper would be so discourteous and contribute to the escalation of the exchange.  There needs to be a lot of re-training across all police forces to stamp out the macho authority attitude.

I saw that and that's insane, all for failing to signal. There are rumors out there that suicide was BS and they actually ended up strangling her to death in her cell, they released video footage and conveniently there is nothing on the tape ( as in just basically static)at the time in question, It's pretty obvious they killed her. Lots wrong with this one here, it's pretty crazy actually.  Some talk that her mug shot is actually of her dead, lying on the floor instead of up against the wall. Lots wrong with this one here for sure, man it would suck to be black in america.  That's for sure. 

I saw that and that's insane, all for failing to signal. There are rumors out there that suicide was BS and they actually ended up strangling her to death in her cell, they released video footage and conveniently there is nothing on the tape ( as in just basically static)at the time in question, It's pretty obvious they killed her. Lots wrong with this one here, it's pretty crazy actually.  Some talk that her mug shot is actually of her dead, lying on the floor instead of up against the wall. Lots wrong with this one here for sure, man it would suck to be black in america.  That's for sure. 

Hmmm, Im not sure it's obvious they killed her.  But if they did, it will come out.  The FBI is investigating.  Supposedly the video of the cell shows her going in and then no one coming and going until the time she is discovered.  if true, that would pretty much confirm it.

 

Some of the info coming forward might shed some light on her as being a bit troubled.  Supposedly she said she had been suicidal in the past, had cut marks and wrote on Facebook that she thought she had PTSD. 

 

It might come to be that the police did nothing legally wrong at all.  But the decision to escalate a minor traffic stop into an arrest eventually, if indirectly, led to her death.

yeah, this stinks from every angle.

Compare how Sandra Bland and Clive Bundy got treated during their run-ins with American law enforcement.

All I can say is that I hope it gets investigated properly.

Jesse Williams has an epic rant on this:

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/23/jesse_williams_brilliant_twitter_epic_on_race_and_police_a_select_segment_of_americans_are_granted_the_privilege_of_being_able_to_resist_said_tyranny_scream_at_it_punch_shove_or_elude_it/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

yeah, this stinks from every angle.

Compare how Sandra Bland and Clive Bundy got treated during their run-ins with American law enforcement.

All I can say is that I hope it gets investigated properly.

Jesse Williams has an epic rant on this:

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/23/jesse_williams_brilliant_twitter_epic_on_race_and_police_a_select_segment_of_americans_are_granted_the_privilege_of_being_able_to_resist_said_tyranny_scream_at_it_punch_shove_or_elude_it/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

CNN headline now that she had pot in her system.  Im not sure why that is relevant.  Unless its meant to counter the family's assertion that she was a wonderful perfect person who never did anything...not that smoking pot makes you none of those things.  But in cases like this families often have a hard time accepting their family member might have done it.

 

Im not sure its a racial thing.  Remember, the Trooper was giving her a warning and letting her go before things escalated.  I think its a matter of a citizen pulling the "I know my rights" routine with a cop that a complex about being the big man. 

Love how most of you guys who have never been in a situation like that, and take your information from the traditionally untrustworthy news reports, and parts of videos, sit in judgement and proclaim who is right and wrong, and all that is required is more training for the police officers, that the police killed her, etc. etc. What a joke! Funny how most of the controversial threads seem to be started by the Unknown Poster.

I have very little doubt there is a racial element, but I suppose it's hard to know for sure. I don't think the evidence supports it's absence.

 

With more certainty I can say that this is a clear example of individuals, and a system, that are incapable of dealing with mental health issues. 

I have very little doubt there is a racial element, but I suppose it's hard to know for sure. I don't think the evidence supports it's absence.

 

With more certainty I can say that this is a clear example of individuals, an a system, that are incapable of dealing with mental health issues. 

Very little doubt? based on what? The evidence should also support for you that there is no evidence of racism. You

actually believe that every person with mental health issues can be capably dealt with in any system? I have a

bridge to sell you.

 

I have very little doubt there is a racial element, but I suppose it's hard to know for sure. I don't think the evidence supports it's absence.

 

With more certainty I can say that this is a clear example of individuals, an a system, that are incapable of dealing with mental health issues. 

Very little doubt? based on what? The evidence should also support for you that there is no evidence of racism. You

actually believe that every person with mental health issues can be capably dealt with in any system? I have a

bridge to sell you.

 

 

I suppose I feel like the long and storied history of racism in the USA, including recent events, that others have articulated better than I have provides a large stack of evidence. I've already articulated a lot of my thoughts on this topic in another thread and I don't particularly feel like responding to that extent again but I certainly can.

 

As for the second part of your response: ugh, I hope it's ok to to ask that if you're going to respond to me then at least respond to what I said, which is not what you wrote. Since you brought it up, yes, I agree with what you wrote too. I do think that it is a fair expectation that every person with mental health issues can be capably dealt with. I'll go even further and say that when they aren't capably responded to then an effort should be made to understand why so it doesn't happen again. I don't think it's unfair to expect people to do their jobs capably, and I also know that sometimes **** happens and mistakes are made. Clearly in this case a mistake was made.

Love how most of you guys who have never been in a situation like that, and take your information from the traditionally untrustworthy news reports, and parts of videos, sit in judgement and proclaim who is right and wrong, and all that is required is more training for the police officers, that the police killed her, etc. etc. What a joke! Funny how most of the controversial threads seem to be started by the Unknown Poster.

I'm not sure what your post is about. Difficult to determine what your position is other then some angry General response.

Yes I start many of the controversial threads. It's news. It's interesting. I like this forum. I asked for the NHL forum and I contribute to this one too. Content is good.

I've been in many situations with the police both good and bad. Mostly good.

What are you trying to say about this specific situation?

 

Love how most of you guys who have never been in a situation like that, and take your information from the traditionally untrustworthy news reports, and parts of videos, sit in judgement and proclaim who is right and wrong, and all that is required is more training for the police officers, that the police killed her, etc. etc. What a joke! Funny how most of the controversial threads seem to be started by the Unknown Poster.

I'm not sure what your post is about. Difficult to determine what your position is other then some angry General response.

Yes I start many of the controversial threads. It's news. It's interesting. I like this forum. I asked for the NHL forum and I contribute to this one too. Content is good.

I've been in many situations with the police both good and bad. Mostly good.

What are you trying to say about this specific situation?

 

Thought it was pretty clear...many of you are passing judgement on a situation you really know little about, and are only getting information from a partial video, and news reports that are mostly unreliable. And yet comments are made like "the cops killed her" "With more certainty I can say that this is a clear example of individuals, and a system, that are incapable of dealing with mental health issues." or "I think its a matter of a citizen pulling the "I know my rights" routine with a cop that a complex about being the big man."

 

But seeing as you all know what happened exactly....carry on!

So you really have nothing to add about the story, just here to complain about people discussing the story? At what point are we allowed to discuss a major news item?

And I'm not disagreeing with some of what you're saying. I just think you clearly have a view about the story and would like to hear it.

No one was in that cell with her so we can never know the entire story. Maybe when the investigation results come out and likely show it was suicide. But we can judge the traffic stop exchange from the video. Very sad situation that obviously didn't need to happen.

So you really have nothing to add about the story, just here to complain about people discussing the story? At what point are we allowed to discuss a major news item?

And I'm not disagreeing with some of what you're saying. I just think you clearly have a view about the story and would like to hear it.

No one was in that cell with her so we can never know the entire story. Maybe when the investigation results come out and likely show it was suicide. But we can judge the traffic stop exchange from the video. Very sad situation that obviously didn't need to happen.

Why would I have something to add to a story that I have no facts on? I should just guess like the rest of you that weren't there and didn't have to deal with the situation, or make a comment like "the cops killed her" That's the one that really got me!

Oh I agree that it's silly to say obviously the cops killed her.

But it's a major news story and fair game to discuss.

Very much agreed.

 

So you really have nothing to add about the story, just here to complain about people discussing the story? At what point are we allowed to discuss a major news item?

And I'm not disagreeing with some of what you're saying. I just think you clearly have a view about the story and would like to hear it.

No one was in that cell with her so we can never know the entire story. Maybe when the investigation results come out and likely show it was suicide. But we can judge the traffic stop exchange from the video. Very sad situation that obviously didn't need to happen.

Why would I have something to add to a story that I have no facts on? I should just guess like the rest of you that weren't there and didn't have to deal with the situation, or make a comment like "the cops killed her" That's the one that really got me!

 

 

Did you actually read the thread before you went off on your rant?  There was one, let me repeat, one post that said it was obvious that the cops killed her.  You called out TUP for starting controversial threads, yet his reply to that post was basically what you are saying, that the facts are not there to support a statement like that.

what was she doing  in a jail? this is the part I don't get. 

 

argue with a policeman, spend two nights in jail? 

 

and why didn't her family go and get her out?

 

 

strange and sad.

 

There is a very large amount of tension, stress, and ugliness down in the USA these days. 

 

they should stop "saving" the world, and start saving themselves.

Just another example of an encounter that was escalated by both parties for no good reason or result.  It's shouldn't be "News of the World" that nobody likes being stopped by the police but when it happens all one has to do is exactly what they ask and the encounter is over and done with in a flash.  In this case the woman decided to protest and traded a warning ticket for her life. 

Just another example of an encounter that was escalated by both parties for no good reason or result. It's shouldn't be "News of the World" that nobody likes being stopped by the police but when it happens all one has to do is exactly what they ask and the encounter is over and done with in a flash. In this case the woman decided to protest and traded a warning ticket for her life.

Sorry, but this is horseshit.

When you criticize Ms. Held's choices, you are deflecting blame from the cop who massively overescalated the situation. Let's set aside her suspicious death for now, because no one here has any idea what happened in her cell. Tell me, at what point does she do anything that warrants physical assault, a taser threat, an arrest, and jail time?

The blame belongs with the cop. Not with the victim. The cop shat the bed on this one. http://www.texasstandard.org/shows/current/10-things-about-the-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-every-texan-should-know/ dissects his mistakes in some detail.

 

Just another example of an encounter that was escalated by both parties for no good reason or result. It's shouldn't be "News of the World" that nobody likes being stopped by the police but when it happens all one has to do is exactly what they ask and the encounter is over and done with in a flash. In this case the woman decided to protest and traded a warning ticket for her life.

Sorry, but this is horseshit.

When you criticize Ms. Held's choices, you are deflecting blame from the cop who massively overescalated the situation. Let's set aside her suspicious death for now, because no one here has any idea what happened in her cell. Tell me, at what point does she do anything that warrants physical assault, a taser threat, an arrest, and jail time?

The blame belongs with the cop. Not with the victim. The cop shat the bed on this one. http://www.texasstandard.org/shows/current/10-things-about-the-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-every-texan-should-know/ dissects his mistakes in some detail.

 

 

Yes it looks excessive but sometimes looks can be deceiving. Maybe she was doing something when in her car that couldn't be seen on camera. There's a lot we don't know so to place blame on one person is premature imo. Both the police officer and Ms Held could have done things differently. 

"In October 2013, the incarceration rate of the United States of America was the highest in the world, at 716 per 100,000 of the national population. While the United States represents about 4.4 percent of the world's population, it houses around 22 percent of the world's prisoners"

 

something clearly gone wrong in the USA. They love putting people in jail. for anything at all.

 

The "liberal" Bill Clinton played a part with his "three strikes" law. 

 

"n July 15th, 1995, in the quiet Southern California city of Whittier, a 33-year-old black man named Curtis Wilkerson got up from a booth at McDonald's, walked into a nearby mall and, within the space of two hours, turned himself into the unluckiest man on Earth. "I was supposed to be waiting there while my girlfriend was at the beauty salon," he says.

So he waited. And waited. After a while, he paged her. "She was like, 'I need another hour,'" he says. "So I was like, 'Baby, I'm going to the mall.'"

Having grown up with no father and a mother hooked on barbiturates, Wilkerson, who says he still boasts a Reggie Miller jumper, began to spend more time on the streets. After his mother died when he was 16, he fell in with a bad crowd, and in 1981 he served as a lookout in a series of robberies. He was quickly caught and sentenced to six years in prison. After he got out, he found work as a forklift operator, and distanced himself from his old life.

But that day in the mall, something came over him. He wandered from store to store, bought a few things, still shaking his head about his girlfriend's hair appointment. After a while, he drifted into a department store called Mervyn's. Your typical chain store, full of mannequins and dress racks; they're out of business today. Suddenly, a pair of socks caught his eye. He grabbed them and slipped them into a shopping bag.

What kind of socks were they, that they were worth taking the risk?

"They were million-dollar socks with gold on 'em," he says now, laughing almost uncontrollably, as he tells the story 18 years later, from a telephone in a correctional facility in Soledad, California.

Really, they were that special?

"No, they were ordinary white socks," he says, not knowing whether to laugh or cry. "Didn't even have any stripes."

Wilkerson never made it out of the store. At the exit, he was, shall we say, over­enthusiastically apprehended by two security officers. They took him to the store security office, where the guards started to argue with each other over whether or not to call the police. One guard wanted to let him pay for the socks and go, but the other guard was more of a hardass and called the cops, having no idea he was about to write himself a part in one of the most absurd scripts to ever hit Southern California.

 

Thanks to a brand-new, get-tough-on-crime state law, Wilkerson would soon be sentenced to life in prison for stealing a pair of plain white tube socks worth $2.50.

 

Have you heard the one about the guy who got life for stealing a slice of pizza? Or the guy who went away forever for lifting a pair of baby shoes? Or the one who got 50 to life for helping himself to five children's videotapes from Kmart? How about the guy who got life for possessing 0.14 grams of meth? That last offender was a criminal mastermind by Three Strikes standards, as many others have been sentenced to life for holding even smaller amounts of drugs, including one poor sap who got the max for 0.09 grams of black-tar heroin.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/cruel-and-unusual-punishment-the-shame-of-three-strikes-laws-20130327#ixzz3gqot0coY 
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook
 

 

My opinion is that The USA is going nuts.

Under Texas law she was resisting arrest the moment she refused his order to get out of the car. The question is did he have the right to issue that order? Most of us wokld say no. But the cop will say he considered the lit cigarette a threat to his safety. We can say that is nonsense. But the cop will always win that.

Both parties were wrong. In my opinion the cop more so. He was very discourteous and wanted to "show" the citizen who was no doubt annoying with her "I have the right" stuff. I'm sure the cops meet citizens who think they are constitutional lawyers all the time but they need to have more patience

Officer should have said fine. Here's your warning. Have a wonderful day.

Here's an interesting one which, again, shows a major lack of training in my opinion.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/28/us/massachusetts-detective-dashcam/index.html

 

A driver in Mass made the wrong turn (on a round-about I believe).  This was observed by an OFF-DUTY detective in his street clothes in an unmarked (I believe his civilian) vehicle.  The detective motions for the driver to pull over but as the detective gets out, the driver begins backing away because he has no idea this is a cop.

 

The detective screams at him to stop, draws his weapon and threatens to shoot him in the head.  He further says the driver is lucky he's a cop or he'd beat him up.

 

Now, Ive seen MANY instances where police had told drivers if they are being pulled over and have any question as to the validity or identity of the person pulling them over, they can call 911 to confirm.  Ive seen people told they do not have to open their windows all the way until they are shown proper ID and sure its a legitimate officer.

 

I think this detective is lucky he wasnt driven over by a driver afraid for his life. 

 

And again, this is a minor traffic infraction.  I'd love to know if police forces across North America look for the macho Alpha male types or if its just a by-product of the profession?  I do agree with the article where its said this particular detective is very good at his job and in his line of work, that abrasive, edgy style can elicit results.  But is this officer so stupid to not see the difference here?

What kind of socks were they, that they were worth taking the risk?

"They were million-dollar socks with gold on 'em," he says now, laughing almost uncontrollably, as he tells the story 18 years later, from a telephone in a correctional facility in Soledad, California.

Really, they were that special?

"No, they were ordinary white socks," he says, not knowing whether to laugh or cry. "Didn't even have any stripes."

Wilkerson never made it out of the store. At the exit, he was, shall we say, over­enthusiastically apprehended by two security officers. They took him to the store security office, where the guards started to argue with each other over whether or not to call the police. One guard wanted to let him pay for the socks and go, but the other guard was more of a hardass and called the cops, having no idea he was about to write himself a part in one of the most absurd scripts to ever hit Southern California.

 

Thanks to a brand-new, get-tough-on-crime state law, Wilkerson would soon be sentenced to life in prison for stealing a pair of plain white tube socks worth $2.50.

 

Have you heard the one about the guy who got life for stealing a slice of pizza? Or the guy who went away forever for lifting a pair of baby shoes? Or the one who got 50 to life for helping himself to five children's videotapes from Kmart? How about the guy who got life for possessing 0.14 grams of meth? That last offender was a criminal mastermind by Three Strikes standards, as many others have been sentenced to life for holding even smaller amounts of drugs, including one poor sap who got the max for 0.09 grams of black-tar heroin.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/cruel-and-unusual-punishment-the-shame-of-three-strikes-laws-20130327#ixzz3gqot0coY 

Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

 

 

My opinion is that The USA is going nuts.

 

It does seem that way but unfortunately once you start digging into U.S. history you soon come to realize the strands of insanity go back a long, long way.  The idea that the U.S. is a beacon of democracy and equality is an absolute myth as it is specifically orientated to prevent these qualities from flourishing.  Their political system although full of good intentions was grown from a rancid seed right from the beginning.

 

The U.S.'s system of competitive capitalism was mainly built on unmoderated exploitation of resources and cheap labour, with a "king of the hill" mentality for the winners and mere crumbs for the losers.  The winners immediately seized this advantage to perpetuate their power and control by entrenching this advantage in the cloak of political corruption that steers their government to this day.

 

Nothing tepid about their soup as the U.S. has been a crucible of creativity and innovation that has revolutionized life on this planet for better and for worse.  Love it or lump it the U.S. is what it is because it got that way.

what was she doing  in a jail? this is the part I don't get. 

 

argue with a policeman, spend two nights in jail? 

 

and why didn't her family go and get her out?

 

 

strange and sad.

 

There is a very large amount of tension, stress, and ugliness down in the USA these days. 

 

they should stop "saving" the world, and start saving themselves.

 

Mark, she was in jail for resisting arrest.  She stayed in jail because no one came forward to post a $5,000 bond for her release.  In the end this probably played a bigger role in her decision to commit suicide than the actual arrest.  If someone would have posted bail she could have been out within the day.

This Sandra Bland case is sort of smaller than its being made out to be.  Yes, someone died.  Tragic and senseless.  But it was suicide.  The issue is the arrest and was it lawful.  She resisted arrest by refusing to get out of the car when ordered to do so.  The question is, was the order to get out of the car lawful?  And most legal analysts say no.

 

The other silly thing is, she was held in jail for days on a $5000 bond for "resisting arrest" and, I believe, assaulting an officer....(is that correct)? When in reality, the core issue was failure to signal.  its a shame no one at some point said gee what a waste of time and resources here.  Give her a ticket, tell her to lose the attitude next time and send her on her way.  Case closed.

 

The problem with cases like this is the family *always* claims the victim was a perfect angel.  They claim she would never commit suicide even though she reportedly had suicide attempts or thoughts previously.  She was a cutter and alleged heavy pot smoker.  She killed herself. 

 

Ready for the next big one?

 

Try this:

 

http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/ray-tensing-sam-dubose-video-body-cam-police-shooting-killing-watch-university-cincinnati-cop-kills-unarmed-black-man-charges-indictment/

 

Video at the link.  This just came down today.  Cop was indicted for murder by a grand jury this morning.  Absolutely ridiculous murder of a citizen.