Beasts and Bums

[17to85]

I didn't mind Halls first half of the game and I'd give him another chance but I really don't know that he's any better than Goltz at this point. The mobility that Goltz brings seems to be something that this offense desperately needs otherwise teams are too easily able to just bring pressure and disrupt the whole thing. 

[do or die]

Beast:  Edwards

 

Bumbs: OC, DC, Dunn

 

Frankly, the only way to make this trainwreck of a season, somewhat worthwhile.........would be to keep chopping, and bring in some real coaches, moving forward..... 

[iso_55]

Nope...Goltz takes too long getting the ball out and is inaccurate when he does. This goes back awhile.

 

Noodle arm is a ridiculous comment.

Go easy on road griller. Any day now the Goltz poster on the ceiling will be coming down.

[iso_55]

Beast:  Edwards

 

Bumbs: OC, DC, Dunn

 

Frankly, the only way to make this trainwreck of a season, somewhat worthwhile.........would be to keep chopping, and bring in some real coaches, moving forward..... 

Giving Burke the rest of the season would be a mistake. Time to move forward even futher & can him& Crowton. It's clearly not working.

[do or die]

Giving Burke the rest of the season would be a mistake. Time to move forward even futher & can him& Crowton. It's clearly not working.

I meant moving forward.....from this week.

[iso_55]

I didn't mind Halls first half of the game and I'd give him another chance but I really don't know that he's any better than Goltz at this point. The mobility that Goltz brings seems to be something that this offense desperately needs otherwise teams are too easily able to just bring pressure and disrupt the whole thing. 

But he can't hit the broad side of a barn from 10 metres away so what good is that? Too inconsistent. A great throw followed by a one hopper or behind an open receiver.

[voodoochylde]

I didn't mind Halls first half of the game and I'd give him another chance but I really don't know that he's any better than Goltz at this point. The mobility that Goltz brings seems to be something that this offense desperately needs otherwise teams are too easily able to just bring pressure and disrupt the whole thing. 

 

 

But for all Goltz's mobility he still can't hit the broad side of a barn (overstating his accuracy issues I know).  He's also been run down (easily) more than once in read option situations and hasn't demonstrated the same level of athleticism of a Collaros or LeFevour.   I don't know if it's the offense that's handcuffing Goltz from not show casing more of his physical tools but, to date, his athleticism and mobility have been overrated.

[iso_55]

I meant moving forward.....from this week.

I think we're talking about the same thing. I'd be all for it today.

[road griller]

Go easy on road griller. Any day now the Goltz poster on the ceiling will be coming down.

Nope, Goltz is the best Q.B. we have.  Has been since TC.

 

What they did to him was a huge mistake, the season is now lost.  

[do or die]

At least Hall can make reads and make some reasonable decisions......he starts next week.

[iso_55]

His arm is suspect but accuracy is the least of his concerns. He needs to learn when to put some zip on the ball as he did on a couple crossers, and how to make better reads but that will come with time. Saw MUCH more out of him than we've ever seen out of Goltz. Unsure if there will be something there long term, but he showed enough to warrant at least some consideration.

He's the guy to go forward with, not Goltz. And in the second half, that chest injury had to affect his throws. He was in pain on the sidelines.

[road griller]

At least Hall can make reads and make some reasonable decisions......he starts next week.

Pretty sure he will start, and he does make good decisions.  Probably because of his experience.  Too bad he can't get the ball there....Against a bad D.

[17to85]

But he can't hit the broad side of a barn from 10 metres away so what good is that? Too inconsistent. A great throw followed by a one hopper or behind an open receiver.

yeah cause Hall never missed a throw at all... you gotta stop this thing you're doing where you make Goltz accuracy sound worse than it is. I'd give Hall more time too cause I do like the type of qb he seems to be, but let's not go overboard on anything here. 

[rebusrankin]

Who do you fo after next year in Free Agency: Glenn? Collaros?/ Burris?/

[Guest J5V]

Watching the secondary closely when the play was in front of me, most of the breakdowns appear to be on C Muamba.  He takes a very deep drop (essentially taking himself out of the play) and is always 3 or 4 yards late.  He's covering turf (a general problem for this secondary in zone) and not covering receivers or playing the ball because he's worried about getting beat deep.  He doesn't have a clue.  The most useful thing he's done this season is blitz.  We'd almost be better off dropping another guy in the box and sending extra rushers in a zone blitz to disrupt the QB's timing than having C Muamba playing DEEP safety.

 

The same 7 yard pass to the inside slot on a hook was there every first down.  Hamilton must have run that play 15 times successfully.  If we're going to suck we could at least be a bit of a speed bump.  Hard to imagine the same guys were responsible for the 2011 defence, it is like they've lost 50 IQ points each since then.

 

On both sides of the ball, too. Hamilton played our D like a fiddle. When we blitzed, they dumped the ball over our aggressive D-line with screen plays and burned us for big gainers all day long. Then, when we only rushed four linemen, Burris had all day to throw the ball and completely carved up our secondary. If we only rush four then the secondary coverage has to be excellent. It isn't. If we're going to blitz, then we have to get to Burris or at least contain him and the backs and disrupt the play. We didn't. It was as if the Hamilton offense knew *exactly* what our D was going to do on every play. Why is that? On the other side of the ball, whenever Hamilton blitzed it seemed like we never picked it up and ran a screen play to burn their D-line. When they didn't blitz, it seems we were constantly throwing into double coverage. Why is that? I think it comes down to poor coaching on both sides of the ball. We're predictable and unimaginative. We don't disguise what we're going to do. We never seem to have the right play called. We are being out-coached on both sides of the ball every game.

 

Dear Wade: Crowton has to go. Creehan has to go. Let Burke take over the D. Bring in Marcel to coach the team and run the offence. Please.

[bluto]

On both sides of the ball, too. Hamilton played our D like a fiddle. When we blitzed, they dumped the ball over our aggressive D-line with screen plays and burned us for big gainers all day long. Then, when we only rushed four linemen, Burris had all day to throw the ball and completely carved up our secondary. If we only rush four then the secondary coverage has to be excellent. It isn't. If we're going to blitz, then we have to get to Burris or at least contain him and the backs and disrupt the play. We didn't. It was as if the Hamilton offense knew *exactly* what our D was going to do on every play. Why is that? On the other side of the ball, whenever Hamilton blitzed it seemed like we never picked it up and ran a screen play to burn their D-line. When they didn't blitz, it seems we were constantly throwing into double coverage. Why is that? I think it comes down to poor coaching on both sides of the ball. We're predictable and unimaginative. We don't disguise what we're going to do. We never seem to have the right play called. We are being out-coached on both sides of the ball every game.

 

Dear Wade: Crowton has to go. Creehan has to go. Let Burke take over the D. Bring in Marcel to coach the team and run the offence. Please.

 

i'd be shocked if that wasn't "the plan" when MB was brought in. seems like a natural.

[Captain Blue]

Both QBs have strengths and weaknesses.

 

Goltz is athletic and still very raw.  He's got good arm strength, allows us to run the zone-read, and makes good decisions.  His accuracy issues are overstated here, in my opinion.  For all the talk about it, he's two percentage points below Pierce and Hall.  That is about about 1 completion difference per game if your QB throws the ball 30 times.  I could go on and on about not relying on anecdotes like "Goltz one-hops the ball!"  Dude made some bad throws.  Overall the percentage still isn't that bad.

 

Hall played well for a rookie.  Very composed, definitely a fit for a traditional offense.  Compared to Goltz his arm is weaker and doesn't allow us to run zone-read (at least not well).  His decision making was solid in the first half, not so great in the second.  He chalked the INTs up to miscommunication with the receivers so maybe I'll pick up on it more when I re-watch the game.  The benefit I see in Hall is that he pushes the ball down field.  That was probably the most aggressive our offense has been with any of the three QBs.  Accuracy was good, not great.  Goltz at 57.7%, Hall at 60%, and Pierce at 60.4% means that the difference right now between any of the three is negligible.

 

I think there are building blocks for success in Goltz and Hall.  Personally I'm a fan of the different things we can do with Goltz and for that reason I favour him, but I am really on team AnyoneButBuck.  Both theses two QBs have positives and negatives.  The only way to find out if either has long term staying power will be to play them and let them play even when their weaknesses appear.

[iso_55]

yeah cause Hall never missed a throw at all... you gotta stop this thing you're doing where you make Goltz accuracy sound worse than it is. I'd give Hall more time too cause I do like the type of qb he seems to be, but let's not go overboard on anything here. 

Hall was placing the ball very nicely all night into a tight window. We all saw it & it was great to actually see a Blue Bomber qb do that. Some of those throws Hall made to his receivers for the catch Goltz can't make because he doesn't have the accuracy & Buck, well... he can't because he just doesn't have it anymore. First time we saw it from any of our qbs this season & was very encouraging. Every qb will throw interceptions. The only way to learn is by making mistakes. I'd normally say that Hall should improve every time out but this is a Gary Crowton offense we're talking about here. If anything, it'll hold him back.

[TBURGESS]

Obviously the first time I've seen Hall play.  Like most rookie's there was lots of good and lots of bad, but based on very limited looks, I'd go Hall, Goltz, NewGuyWithCFLExperienceWhoIsntBuck

[17to85]

Hall was placing the ball very nicely all night into a tight window. We all saw it & it was great to actually see a Blue Bomber qb do that. Some of those throws Hall made to his receivers for the catch Goltz can't make because he doesn't have the accuracy & Buck, well... he can't because he just doesn't have it anymore. First time we saw it from any of our qbs this season & was very encouraging. Every qb will throw interceptions. The only way to learn is by making mistakes. I'd normally say that Hall should improve every time out but this is a Gary Crowton offense we're talking about here. If anything, it'll hold him back.

 

 

applicable to Hall but not Goltz? come on, you are very anti-Goltz for whatever reason, you are making him sound a lot worse than he actually was. Is it cause Mack brought in Goltz and in your mind everything Mack has ever done has been the worst thing in the world? 

[OldSchoolBlue]

Sorry, Hall isn't the guy. He may get another start or two, but it's not going to take long for him to become an interception machine.  His throws are weak and often off target, and he made some piss-poor decisions (yes he made some good ones as well). Not a fan.  

 

Unfortunately we don't have a qb worth starting at this point. Goltz wins by default I guess, simply because I don't want to see Buck killed on the field.

[iso_55]

applicable to Hall but not Goltz? come on, you are very anti-Goltz for whatever reason, you are making him sound a lot worse than he actually was. Is it cause Mack brought in Goltz and in your mind everything Mack has ever done has been the worst thing in the world? 

Nope. I just know that I never saw Goltz make some of the throws Hall made. Is he our long term qb? No clue. But then from what I saw I doubt neither is Goltz. I just believe he is capable of doing things passing wise that Goltz can't do. But I'm all for bringing in other qbs as well as signing a young CFL FA  qb. Anything to get this thing going. The one thing I'm hopeful for now that Mack is gone is that we actually sign a CFL FA qb. And not hear the song & dance that our players are always better than any free agent on another team.

[17to85]

but there are things Goltz can do passing that Hall can't. I've seen Goltz thread some passes into tight spaces that Hall just doesn't have the arm strength to do. They're different qbs for sure and I dunno if Goltz is going to develop into something good or not, but you are entirely too hard on the kid and too easy on Hall. Hall did some good things and some bad things, same as Goltz. There isn't a lot to choose between the two in my mind and it comes down to what kind of qb you want out there. 

[iso_55]

i know what is going to happen. Burke gets fired & the new HC brings back Buck. Burke is kept on & the new OC brings back Buck. And the Buck issue finally gets dealt with in the off season for good this time. That is what I see occurring.

[JuranBoldenRules]

Hall was placing the ball very nicely all night into a tight window. We all saw it & it was great to actually see a Blue Bomber qb do that. Some of those throws Hall made to his receivers for the catch Goltz can't make because he doesn't have the accuracy & Buck, well... he can't because he just doesn't have it anymore. First time we saw it from any of our qbs this season & was very encouraging. Every qb will throw interceptions. The only way to learn is by making mistakes. I'd normally say that Hall should improve every time out but this is a Gary Crowton offense we're talking about here. If anything, it'll hold him back.

 

I didn't see Hall hitting a lot of windows.  He hit one nicely on a slant to Matthews.  His release isn't particularly quick, and his feet don't stop moving (which might explain the flutter in his throws).  Most of his completions were lobs to guys wide-open, or great catches by Edwards, he didn't throw anyone open.  He made a nice pass to Edwards down the seam, but any QB with pro potential can make that throw.  It was nice to see the ball go downfield a bit more, but I feel like Hall is going to have problems the more he plays because he puts the ball up for grabs all the way down the field.