Darrin Bauming ‏@DarrinBauming40s

#Bombers name Jeff Martin to their Board, replacing the retiring Chrys Pappas who has held a seat since 2002.

There was a clause in the original deal that Asper had first right to purchase the club if it ever became available............did that change?

With what buttons? I don't think the 5 million the Club had to pay him when his deal fell thru will cover the purchase....not even the cost over runs.

With what buttons? I don't think the 5 million the Club had to pay him when his deal fell thru will cover the purchase....not even the cost over runs.

Asper isn't responsible for the cost overrruns on the stadium though.  It was never clear if the money given to Asper was over and above the amount of money spent designing the stadium.  Wouldn't be surprised if it was.

Asper hired the architect that had no clue how to design a stadium. Hence some significant redesign requirements were needed....hence some huge additional cost.... Does that let him off still?

Asper hired the architect that had no clue how to design a stadium. Hence some significant redesign requirements were needed....hence some huge additional cost.... Does that let him off still?

And you have no clue whether the architect was capable of designing the stadium or not. There are ALWAYS redesign requirements and additional costs with all major projects.

Asper "do you know how to design a football stadium?"

Architect: "not a clue."

Asper: "you're hired".

Come on. If Asper wanted to buy the team he could write a cheque tomorrow.

 

Asper hired the architect that had no clue how to design a stadium. Hence some significant redesign requirements were needed....hence some huge additional cost.... Does that let him off still?

And you have no clue whether the architect was capable of designing the stadium or not. There are ALWAYS redesign requirements and additional costs with all major projects.

 

Ray Wan had never designed a stadium before.  Instead of going through the proper process of taking submissions from the three firms with the most experience in stadium design and determine which one was the proper proposal, the Bombers (Asper) choose to go with Wan. 

 

The likelihood of having significant cost overruns due to redesign requirements (outdoor pressbox, not providing proper field access from the stands, improper venitlation) are much greater with a firm with minmal or no experience (Wan) than it would be with a firm with plenty of experience (HOK). 

The entire football operations department was redesigned by the Athletic Therapist, Equipment Manager and former AGM as it was not functional.

There was a clause in the original deal that Asper had first right to purchase the club if it ever became available............did that change?

 

Usually when you make a deal and your end of it completely bottoms out, you lose the benefits on the other end of that deal, but in this case, who the hell knows?

 

I second the motion regarding True North and I posited that on the old board ages ago.  The government would have to negate the debt load though.

 

The government is going to have to eat that debt or drive the Football Club right into the ground.  I have a feeling that True North will be handed the team and stadium once the Football Club defaults, which will basically be once they have to start making payments on the loan, they should make enough from the Grey Cup to make the first round of payments, so 2018-19.

 

 

Asper hired the architect that had no clue how to design a stadium. Hence some significant redesign requirements were needed....hence some huge additional cost.... Does that let him off still?

And you have no clue whether the architect was capable of designing the stadium or not. There are ALWAYS redesign requirements and additional costs with all major projects.

 

Ray Wan had never designed a stadium before.  Instead of going through the proper process of taking submissions from the three firms with the most experience in stadium design and determine which one was the proper proposal, the Bombers (Asper) choose to go with Wan. 

 

The likelihood of having significant cost overruns due to redesign requirements (outdoor pressbox, not providing proper field access from the stands, improper venitlation) are much greater with a firm with minmal or no experience (Wan) than it would be with a firm with plenty of experience (HOK). 

 

 

The biggest cause for overruns is that the stadium was designed to look nice on a postcard, not necessarily function.

 

 

 

 

 

There was a clause in the original deal that Asper had first right to purchase the club if it ever became available............did that change?

 

Usually when you make a deal and your end of it completely bottoms out, you lose the benefits on the other end of that deal, but in this case, who the hell knows?

 

I second the motion regarding True North and I posited that on the old board ages ago.  The government would have to negate the debt load though.

 

The government is going to have to eat that debt or drive the Football Club right into the ground.  I have a feeling that True North will be handed the team and stadium once the Football Club defaults, which will basically be once they have to start making payments on the loan, they should make enough from the Grey Cup to make the first round of payments, so 2018-19.

 

How do you hand a publicly owned team to a private enterprise?

How do you hand a publicly owned team to a private enterprise?

 

The Bombers aren't publicly owned, their a Non Profit Organization,  so the Board would have to approve any take over.

I went to 2 games this season & for the life of me I don't get all the bitching about how poorly designed the stadium was. I think it's a great stadium. I swear, I have no idea why people complain about the facility. Compare it to the old place. Compare it to any other CFL stadium in Canada.... We don't have anything to ***** about. Yeah, they screwed up the press box but that'll be fixed. I don't like Asper is doing the work & the Bombers have to pay him though. But the stadium itself? Nothing wrong at all.

 

 

There was a clause in the original deal that Asper had first right to purchase the club if it ever became available............did that change?

 

Usually when you make a deal and your end of it completely bottoms out, you lose the benefits on the other end of that deal, but in this case, who the hell knows?

 

I second the motion regarding True North and I posited that on the old board ages ago.  The government would have to negate the debt load though.

 

The government is going to have to eat that debt or drive the Football Club right into the ground.  I have a feeling that True North will be handed the team and stadium once the Football Club defaults, which will basically be once they have to start making payments on the loan, they should make enough from the Grey Cup to make the first round of payments, so 2018-19.

 

How do you hand a publicly owned team to a private enterprise?

 

 

Because the province doesn't want to operate a football team or stadium.  My guess is that there would be some kind of leasing deal for the stadium that would kick some money to the province, but really it'll just be a way to wash their hands of responsibility for the Football Club, which has been a thorn in the side of both the city and province for a couple decades.  It's not as much a publicly owned team as a publicly owned liability.  The team operates at breakeven in a good year, then they come around asking for loans every decade or so, then they ask for those loans to be forgived a few years down the line, or paid through taxes that would be collected either way.  The Football Club doesn't put any money into general revenue of the province or city outside of tax revenue that would be collected whether it was operated publicly or privately.

 

A team that's worth $10 million (generous valuation) carrying a $80+ million debt is essentially worthless.

 

How do you hand a publicly owned team to a private enterprise?

 

The Bombers aren't publicly owned, their a Non Profit Organization,  so the Board would have to approve any take over.

 

 

That means nothing when the provincial and municipal governments are involved.  See Osborne House.  They ultimately control the team.

What the government did to OH has been reprehensible. But don't even get me started.

I would assume a payment of $6 million to $10 million and some sort of ticket surcharge to the government for the team Would be thrilled to see TN take it. But the location doesn't serve TN's real estate development business very well

What the government did to OH has been reprehensible. But don't even get me started.

I would assume a payment of $6 million to $10 million and some sort of ticket surcharge to the government for the team Would be thrilled to see TN take it. But the location doesn't serve TN's real estate development business very well

 

The team has no value.  The only value is in operating the facility.

 

How do you hand a publicly owned team to a private enterprise?

 

The Bombers aren't publicly owned, their a Non Profit Organization,  so the Board would have to approve any take over.

 

To be accurate they are "community-owned team"

Ofcourse the team has value.

Ofcourse the team has value.

 

I'll sell you my car for $10,000, but you'll owe the bank $100,000 as part of the deal.

 

The Bombers have no value.  The only way a private entity takes them on is if the government eats the debt and leases the stadium operations to that private entity, True North would be perfect because they have all the infrastructure in place to both operate a professional sports team and a facility.  I guess you could count the lease price as a sale price, the NHL sure has more than a few times, but it really wouldn't indicate the value of the Football Club.  There is no way to service that debt through operations, that's what completely cripples the organization.

How do you hand a publicly owned team to a private enterprise?

The Bombers aren't publicly owned, their a Non Profit Organization,  so the Board would have to approve any take over.

To be accurate they are "community-owned team"

No they themselves says they are a non profit organization.

Perhaps the bank and government might have some say if they default on an agreement.

How do you hand a publicly owned team to a private enterprise?

The Bombers aren't publicly owned, their a Non Profit Organization,  so the Board would have to approve any take over.

To be accurate they are "community-owned team"

No they themselves says they are a non profit organization.

community owned non profit organization?

The team has value. The debt on me stadium is not the team. The obligation the team has to pay for the stadium is a problem. Your $10,000 car with a $100,000 lien against it doesn't change the fact your car is worth $10,000.

But yes as long as the debt repayment obligations are apart of the deal, no one will buy the team.

A prospective entity would have to determine how much income is derived from the stadium alone. Are there enough extra events to generate a million dollars a year? If so maybe a deal where owner pays $10 million for team and $500,000 a year in "rent" for 50 years plus a a $3 surcharge on tickets for 50 years. You can get pretty close to paying off most of the debt.

The team has value. The debt on me stadium is not the team. The obligation the team has to pay for the stadium is a problem. Your $10,000 car with a $100,000 lien against it doesn't change the fact your car is worth $10,000.

But yes as long as the debt repayment obligations are apart of the deal, no one will buy the team.

A prospective entity would have to determine how much income is derived from the stadium alone. Are there enough extra events to generate a million dollars a year? If so maybe a deal where owner pays $10 million for team and $500,000 a year in "rent" for 50 years plus a a $3 surcharge on tickets for 50 years. You can get pretty close to paying off most of the debt.

 

Nobody with two brain cells to rub together would pay $10 million to take that debt obligation (Football Club) and then pay to lease the stadium.  If the Bombers could operate at a $5 million profit every year there would be no problems, but they can't, even in the new stadium.  They can't service the debt on the operations of the Football Club (even if Jon Bon Jovi made IGF into a karaoke bar for the month of May every year), which is why the Football Club is worthless as a business.  It's unlikely that a private operator would take on the Bombers for free with the debt obligation and no way to pay it back.