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wanna-b-fanboy

Game of Thrones: Final Season Discussion: ==> MAJOR SPOILERS<==

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1 hour ago, bigg jay said:

I'm not sure modern sensibility applies to this series though since it's a medieval fantasy.  A lot of things in the show go against modern traditions.  Being usurped by a man also assumes Jon would win in the end which isn't a guarantee.

Martin has been pretty vocal about being puzzled by people who expect a happy ending for the story when the entire series has been filled with such shocking/jarring moments.  He could be setting the stage for an evil or crazy queen winning or he could just be full of **** too and wants to keep people guessing!

 

True.  But its a tough series to watch if you like happy endings already.  Be nice if the journey was a happy one.  Although I could see something like Dany winning (maybe Jon sacrifices himself for her).  We think its over and then she's killed by...someone who is then revealed to be Arya and we end it with Sansa revealing she was in on it.  And it ends that way.

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1 minute ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Sansa and Arya are a formidable pair.  I could see why Dany was so scared when she was begging Jon not to tell Sansa that he is her nephew.

I don't she was used to someone standing up to her.

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As Varys said to Tyrion, she doesn't like having her authority challenged.  Sansa would make a good queen but doesn't seem to want anything to do with the south these days (with good reason).

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6 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

As Varys said to Tyrion, she doesn't like having her authority challenged.  Sansa would make a good queen but doesn't seem to want anything to do with the south these days (with good reason).

now that she knows the truth, she could marry Jon Snow!  At least it's only a cousin (just rename Winterfell "Regina") and not his aunt.

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I really hate the dumbing down they've done to Tyrion. Danny is soo unrelatable now too. Can't even see her side, and it's like they aren't trying.  This second to the last episode also felt like it could have been half an hour without losing anything of substance. 

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I get all the foreshadowing that Dany is a mad queen.  I get that she believes she'll never be loved and that terror will have to be the thing that keeps her on the throne. What I don't get is why, at that moment, she turned.  What was going through her mind when she was perched on the wall, staring at the red keep?

So I buy her heel turn, in a way, but also I don't really buy it, it didn't feel ... earned.

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9 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Great episode.  I really don’t know where the negativity comes from. Dany has hinted at this for awhile.  Maybe because I just watched the entire series but it makes sense on the bigger picture. 

She didn't even hint, at certain points, she flat out said she was capable of doing this.

5 hours ago, johnzo said:

I get all the foreshadowing that Dany is a mad queen.  I get that she believes she'll never be loved and that terror will have to be the thing that keeps her on the throne. What I don't get is why, at that moment, she turned.  What was going through her mind when she was perched on the wall, staring at the red keep?

So I buy her heel turn, in a way, but also I don't really buy it, it didn't feel ... earned.

If you re-watch the episode where her band of stragglers finally makes it to Qarth, she gives a quote that shows her mindset and how she sees things.  It makes sense when you pair the quote with her seeing the Red Keep:

"Thirteen, when my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who have wronged me! We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground! Turn us away, and we will burn you first."

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31 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

She didn't even hint, at certain points, she flat out said she was capable of doing this.

If you re-watch the episode where her band of stragglers finally makes it to Qarth, she gives a quote that shows her mindset and how she sees things.  It makes sense when you pair the quote with her seeing the Red Keep:

"Thirteen, when my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who have wronged me! We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground! Turn us away, and we will burn you first."

I’m actually glad they had the balls to go there. Plus Arya is a much more “earned” female hero. 

I sort of expect the series to end with Sansa in power (maybe not queen, but the seven kingdoms having their own autonomy).   Jon probably dies, sacrificing himself to take out dany (seems Arya would be the one to kill her though). 

Tyrion lives only to be taken out by Bronn (or we get a scene of bronn living the good life at high garden ). 

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I think they've hinted at the Mad Queen angle throughout, but it didn't feel genuine or earned, as they've kind of rushed the last couple of seasons and lost those gradual connections. You could tell she was unhinged by Jon's real bloodline, which was the clearest threat to her power. She compensated by going over the top with the fear and violence. Everyone around her betraying her, dying, or their capabilities being questioned (Tyrion). Normally that would have been built up more than just other characters mentioning they did not trust her.

Another part that felt lost was Cersei. She didn't have much to do, and I expected her to have a trick or two up her sleeves, she's smarter than letting them roll right through Kings landing unabated. Wildfire, booby traps, using the confined spaces to their advantage. Even the plans she had like the scorpions were useless all of a sudden. All in the name of rushing through the final of the story, where excellent pacing used to be a hallmark of the show.

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2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I’m actually glad they had the balls to go there. Plus Arya is a much more “earned” female hero. 

I sort of expect the series to end with Sansa in power (maybe not queen, but the seven kingdoms having their own autonomy).   Jon probably dies, sacrificing himself to take out dany (seems Arya would be the one to kill her though). 

Tyrion lives only to be taken out by Bronn (or we get a scene of bronn living the good life at high garden ). 

I don't know who gets close enough to Dany to kill her, unless it's Arya with Grey Worm's face or something. She has zero trust in anyone around her. Maybe Jon has a connection with Drogon that could be exploited to get the opportunity.

I keep going back to Ramsey's line which was basically," if you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention". Also the concept of history and cyclical nature of history. She didn't break the wheel, she was just the next part of it, finishing what the Mad King didn't.

I don't think Tyrion can now pay his debt to Bronn, so either Bronn gets him or Dany does.

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5 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I’m actually glad they had the balls to go there. Plus Arya is a much more “earned” female hero. 

I sort of expect the series to end with Sansa in power (maybe not queen, but the seven kingdoms having their own autonomy).   Jon probably dies, sacrificing himself to take out dany (seems Arya would be the one to kill her though). 

Tyrion lives only to be taken out by Bronn (or we get a scene of bronn living the good life at high garden ). 

Tyrion will have to answer for letting his brother escape, so if he dies, I don't think it will come from Bronn.  His fate will most likely be decided by which Targaryen wins out next week.

I also think the 7 kingdoms having autonomy is a real possibility.  If Jon is able to take out Dany and still doesn't want the crown, I could see him abolishing the iron throne & leaving to live out his days beyond the wall with Tormund and Ghost.

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1 minute ago, itchy said:

I don't know who gets close enough to Dany to kill her, unless it's Arya with Grey Worm's face or something. She has zero trust in anyone around her. Maybe Jon has a connection with Drogon that could be exploited to get the opportunity.

I keep going back to Ramsey's line which was basically," if you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention". Also the concept of history and cyclical nature of history. She didn't break the wheel, she was just the next part of it, finishing what the Mad King didn't.

I don't think Tyrion can now pay his debt to Bronn, so either Bronn gets him or Dany does.

Martin has also expressed surprise that people are still expecting a happy ending.  Now whether or not that means a villain wins in the end or not is TBD.

Jon or Arya has to be the one... with my money on Jon since Arya taking out both Dany & the Nights King seems like overkill.  They do feature her prominently in the trailer for the last episode though so we'll see.

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13 minutes ago, itchy said:

I think they've hinted at the Mad Queen angle throughout, but it didn't feel genuine or earned, as they've kind of rushed the last couple of seasons and lost those gradual connections. You could tell she was unhinged by Jon's real bloodline, which was the clearest threat to her power. She compensated by going over the top with the fear and violence. Everyone around her betraying her, dying, or their capabilities being questioned (Tyrion). Normally that would have been built up more than just other characters mentioning they did not trust her.

Another part that felt lost was Cersei. She didn't have much to do, and I expected her to have a trick or two up her sleeves, she's smarter than letting them roll right through Kings landing unabated. Wildfire, booby traps, using the confined spaces to their advantage. Even the plans she had like the scorpions were useless all of a sudden. All in the name of rushing through the final of the story, where excellent pacing used to be a hallmark of the show.

Agreed, the pacing over the last couple seasons has not been very good.  The series on the whole hasn't been as good once they ran out of book material to use. 

Cersei was definitely underused and deserved a far better (more personal?) death than getting buried under rubble.  The bad guys (Joffrey/Ramsey) finally getting what they deserved were highlights of the series and it didn't feel anything close to that with her. 

It did look like there was some wildfire explosions happening though as there were some green flames appearing sporadically as Dany lit up King's Landing.

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27 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Agreed, the pacing over the last couple seasons has not been very good.  The series on the whole hasn't been as good once they ran out of book material to use. 

Cersei was definitely underused and deserved a far better (more personal?) death than getting buried under rubble.  The bad guys (Joffrey/Ramsey) finally getting what they deserved were highlights of the series and it didn't feel anything close to that with her. 

It did look like there was some wildfire explosions happening though as there were some green flames appearing sporadically as Dany lit up King's Landing.

They seem to run out of time.  But it also could be a conscious decision to save big deaths til the end.  Pacing wise it might have made more sense to deal with Jamie, Hound, Mountain etc a few episodes ago...spread them out.  But as we get to the end, a lot of happening very fast,

I dont hate the Cersei/Jamie death but its not ideal.  Jamie is my favorite character so I wanted a more redemptive end for him.  I thought he'd kill Cersei and be totally emotionally devastated to have had to do it.  I guess he led her to her death in inadvertently.  And Cersie sobbing like a child is sort of an insulting way to go that she deserves but its not nearly satisfying enough.  It really should have been Arya or Jamie that took her out.  Maybe she'll crawl out of the rubble next week.

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1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

They seem to run out of time.  But it also could be a conscious decision to save big deaths til the end.  Pacing wise it might have made more sense to deal with Jamie, Hound, Mountain etc a few episodes ago...spread them out.  But as we get to the end, a lot of happening very fast,

I dont hate the Cersei/Jamie death but its not ideal.  Jamie is my favorite character so I wanted a more redemptive end for him.  I thought he'd kill Cersei and be totally emotionally devastated to have had to do it.  I guess he led her to her death in inadvertently.  And Cersie sobbing like a child is sort of an insulting way to go that she deserves but its not nearly satisfying enough.  It really should have been Arya or Jamie that took her out.  Maybe she'll crawl out of the rubble next week.

The decision to reduce the number of episodes didn't do them any favors.  I realize part of that was budgetary because of all the expensive battle scenes but I feel like an extra episode or two would have been much better for the show (and if it was more plot than action it wouldn't have been as expensive to make).

Yeah, no issues with them dying (I picked them both to die in the GOT pool I'm in), but definitely not satisfying enough.  Minor nitpick I suppose.

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1 hour ago, itchy said:

Another part that felt lost was Cersei. She didn't have much to do, and I expected her to have a trick or two up her sleeves, she's smarter than letting them roll right through Kings landing unabated. Wildfire, booby traps, using the confined spaces to their advantage. Even the plans she had like the scorpions were useless all of a sudden. All in the name of rushing through the final of the story, where excellent pacing used to be a hallmark of the show.

I think there were traps set all over King's landing - the puffs of green wild fire occasionally went off - i think those were there for when the forces went in on foot. I think she was undone when Drogon just torched EVERYTHING... not much you can do against that once the scorpions were taken out. I thought it was great to see that Cersi was unable to do ANYTHING... it lent to the narrative of Danny's brutality. 

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Am I the only one who feels I've already watched the finale?  There's not an interesting character left who's name isn't Arya and although Danny acted horribly (to put it mildly), this was a very reasonable end to the story.

Too harsh?

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23 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Am I the only one who feels I've already watched the finale?  There's not an interesting character left who's name isn't Arya and although Danny acted horribly (to put it mildly), this was a very reasonable end to the story.

Too harsh?

Tyrion?

Greyworm?

 

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22 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Am I the only one who feels I've already watched the finale?  There's not an interesting character left who's name isn't Arya and although Danny acted horribly (to put it mildly), this was a very reasonable end to the story.

Too harsh?

They could probably have extended last nights episode about 30 minutes and wrapped everything up.  The major fighting is done so it's down to politics and a couple more deaths.

There is still some intrigue left though so I wouldn't say Arya is the only interesting character left but it is getting to be slim pickings.

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18 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Tyrion?

Greyworm?

 

Fair enough.

Tyrion yes, but Greyworm's love story is over and I don't expect he'll have any significance (nor should he) in the finale.

And for those who might mention Jon Snow - all I can say is that Jon Snow is the Rick Grimes of GOT.

Edited by Wideleft

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