KptKrunch

Faaaaaaar more people have came and stayed then came, got butthurt then left.. No need to verbally martyr yourself (again) on the "be nice to others" topic... Again. Overall, I think I'm pretty respectful here to people. However, if someone comes after me I won't shy away as you know. I get into it sure but I'm a lot better than I used to be on other sites I was on in the past. I try not to be combative here like I was elsewhere. Not a martyr SPuDs. Just giving facts. if you were a regular on 13thman back a decade ago you know 2/3 of the mods there were power hungry dickheads led by a bully named Section W from Montreal. It deserved to crash. You always reference that board but what we have built here is nothing like that.. It won't become a boys club mentality and it won't become a power mad ran dictatorship.. Frankly, for the most part we self regulate better then any forums I've been a part of.. I'd argue that - been called stupid by a mod. Everything I've said and been called out for by that mod has pretty much been proven by what's happened on the football field. Swat that gum

I liked how the game turned out yesterday - showed how a lot of people's opinions are spot on regarding the QB play in Wpg of late. Also like how all the Willy supporters completely gloss over all the other things going on (Defensive TD's, kick return TD's / or big returns, forced turnovers setting up the bombers in prime real estate) that contributed greatly to that 5 -1 start. Nope - Willy gets all the credit for the 5 - 1, and none for the 8 losses in a row he was also a big part of. On one side, we got Nick Grigsby who falls down when a gust of wind hits him - yep get rid of him, start Cotton. On the other side, you got Willy who fumbles the ball away after the Defense puts him in a great spot - TWICE (Edmonton a few weeks back/ Calgary yesterday) but nope - not his fault. Probably mine. Then we got Mr. P - a so called 'mod' here, who gets his posse together to run me down (and to try and run me out of here - but only way is to ban me - Mr. P probably has the power and is tempted because I don't agree with his opinion - wrestling... really lol) all because I called it back in late September that Willy was struggling. Willy is our #1 guy going into next year. And I am so looking forward to it. Grey Cup in Winnipeg should be sweet. I hope We can be in it but I'm sure we'll be in the playoffs - as we have a QB who can lead us there. Problem is, I don't know which Qb it will be. But one of them will do it I'm positive.

You realize for the most part I agree with you right? I never said to 'hand the starting reigns over' to Marve. I have said, many times - that Willy is our future. All I said in my one thread that I started is enough of Grigsby this and oline that - Willy isn't exactly setting the house on fire. In fact - we could have won the Labour Day game, and the Banjo Bowl, if Willy was playing like he was in July. The REST of the team WAS good enough to win those games. Facts are Facts - and though last week is a 'who knows' I'm pretty sure if Marve goes in in the third quarter while we still have the lead we win that game. Edmonton kind of proved it as B.C. pretty much had a similar game here - only difference was Reilly (who was my first choice btw I settled for him signing here in Edmonton as they are my #2 team) showed a QB who's on his game can do. I have no doubt that Willy has injury problems, I have no doubt he's better than he showed the last two months and is still the incumbent #1 Qb. But, I have no doubt that a guy, with ZERO CFL experience, who spent the first part of 3 months, as I understand a third stringers role, - playing the role of the opposition QB and working with OUR D for the first 4 months of the year while Willy and Brohm took the lions share of snaps with the regular offense, has a future in this league the way he played. He made very tough throws, while being chased, on 'busted' plays, two weeks in a row (where he played). Albeit against the same team, and one in very poor conditions, but I liked what I saw. Drew Willy is our #1 guy I have no argument there. But next year, if he's hurt, or if he's struggling, we better be putting in Marve to 'change the pace'. I could care less about 3700 yards btw - in an 18 game passing league, 3700 yards isn't impessive. Add 1000 yards and 15 TD's to that total, then you can color me impressed. Marve impressed me - Willy impressed me early - he didn't impress me at all since mid - August.

He sure did with his 50 per cent completion percentage.... 6/12 in the game, 11/22 on the season and people are comparing him to one of the best QB's to play football for this organization. I can't even...There's a very good reason why coaches coach, scouts are scouts, and fans are fans. The quoted statement is a prime example. No - with his ability to scramble and make plays out of nothing, like that 40 yard strike to Denmark while being chased down - in a snow storm with slick footing to boot. If it's 'so easy' why can't your boy Willy do that - what was 4 for 10 for 22 yards and ZERO points in a half - and he played in the 'good half' (snow was worse when Marve was in). Just saying - facts are facts too

hmmmm, where did I hear that before.......?????

hmmmmm, really.........

Willy cost us both of the games here against you guys with terrible game crushing interceptions. My biggest concern with Willy is the fact that he regressed as the season went on. Isn't that what rookies do to a certain extent. Once there is more game film on them other teams clamp down on some of the early success. Drew stood in there and tried to win. The int's where the qb just panics and floats the ball out there up for grabs are the ones that scare me. Drew didn't appear to be doing that, just forcing some balls maybe that he shouldn't have thrown. He clearly is very talented, I've been following him in his time here as well and have watched practice. You can't coach a qb to throw the ball, drew has a great arm IMO. The hope with experience is he stops forcing those balls and knows when to hold em and when to fold em. Durant threw a lot of picks earlier in his career, but watching him now he is picking his spots better and the turnovers have gone down immensely. It doesn't necessarily make Durant a better qb but more so a better game manager. The game will slow down next year for drew and the turnovers will go down as well with that. At least that is the hope going forward. You should watch some early video of Anthony Cavillo - talk about bad decisions. But - he learned. I'm sure Willy will too given time, he does have the natural talent. Only point I've ever tried to make is Willy is just as responsible for losing these last 8 games as anyone else. He's not the 'sole' reason, but he's 'a' reason. He's learning and will hopefully rebound next year and be better for it.

The max protect schemes worked for Montreal because: a) They had a QB who could throw into tight coverage effectively The running game was effective enough to keep the D off balance Well just to add, and I mentioned this in another thread, Cavillo was known for having a very quick release. Drew has to learn that as he doesn't have that yet. I've argued it before, and will do so again, an offensive line never gives up 10 sacks in a game. Their job is to give their QB time to throw the ball. On 8 of those sacks (or was it 7) Willy had over four steamboats to throw the ball and he didn't do it. If you want to 'blame' the line - you have to see a guy beat his block right at the start and put immediate pressure on the QB. That happened on B.C's first sack where Willy didn't get a chance to even plant his feet. That's how Cavillo was sacked - very rarely, when he got a chance to plant his feet, did he ever get sacked? No, he got rid of the ball. Drew will learn, and I do agree with what January is saying. It can be proved. Look at Justin Sorenson, remember him, our much maligned center from last year? He's doing just fine here in Edmonton since Ramsey went down with an injury about 7 games ago. What, did he 'just learn' his position, or is he put in a 'better' position (in terms of the schemes used here in Edmonton)? I'd bet on the latter.

That's the thing, it's a test for Mike O'Shea to show he can make an intelligent decision and if Willy needs to be replaced, JUST DO IT!!! Though not much of a 'test'. IMO his test was last Saturday, if any QB ever needed to be pulled in a game with the outcome undecided, it was Willy in the third quarter. Even, as one poster noted, for just a few series. Maybe Marve is able to move the team a bit, get some first downs, maybe some points (TD would have been nice but even a field goal) just to show Willy that 'hey, there are plays out there than can be made'. Then send Willy back in. Maybe Willy has more confidence at that point (or maybe he plays just as bad and gets shown up which has to be the only reason why MOS didn't do that to begin with) and we win a very winable game. For now, it's easy - MOS plays Marve, maybe Portis too, in the second half, regardless of how Willy does. If Willy is playing OK to good, he says he wanted Willy out on a 'positive' note. If Willy has a miserable first half - he says that was the plan all along and no shot to Willy's ego. The real 'test' will come next year when, if Willy is struggling and needs to be sat for a series or two (or the rest of the game) then MOS does it then he passes.

There is definitely truth to the fact Willy does not have near enough talent surrounding him. But as I said in the tough love thread I started, regardless of the reason why, his play has slipped big time since July. He is definitely not the same guy he was then. He couldn't make a decision to save his life on Saturday (well, to save a sack anyway) and should be sat for the remainder of the year because he is our future. Cavillo, in Vegas and later in Hamilton, was awful. He looked like Willy does now (not July, now). Maybe even worse. But once he 'got it' - well, the rest is history. I'm not saying Willy is going to be the next Cavillo, but he has potential to be like him. Willy needs to learn how to use the tools he has, personally and those around him. He needs to learn to get rid of the ball quickly if he's going to be a pocket passer. Cavillo, many times, only had 3 or 4 seconds to throw, but he did throw. Sometimes he was picked off, sometimes it was incomplete, but he got rid of the ball. Willy had that early, but lost it. I'm sure he'll start next game though, and Marve will most likely come in in the second half (regardless of how Willy plays). But MOS is very much to blame as Willy for this last game, Willy was frozen back there and should have been pulled. Big mistake by a rookie coach who I hope never does that again, unless he want's his star player maimed.

W Who was the guy here who said what if Grigsby rushes for 200 yards in his first game with the Ti Cats, then what? No worries there. That was me - I should have said what happens if Cotton does it.... he was a lot closer

oooo that hurts.

Whoa whoa whoa there. You mean..... nah iso, goalie, Mr P and the rest can't be wrong about Drew freaking Willy can they? .... Ummmm, nope, it's me, I'm the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. Its the water boy (right Willy boys) -he's the culprit. Not Drew Willy, He had the time to go to his fourth reads, no one was open. That's why he was sacked. Willy is God, he can do no wrong. Now Willy is Jesus Christ, and he's shouldering the burden of the whole team You'd probably get a lot more credit for your opinion if you didn't sound like such a clown while you convey it. "look at me look at me look at me look at me" Actually, it all started on my 'tough love' thread about Willy in the end of September. But you're right I definitely can come on too strong (and way too wordy) on a lot of these threads.

iso iso iso - NO ONE is open on a Hail Mary. Since when do you see an 'open receiver'? You know that for crissakes. Take your fingers out of your ears and stop going LALALALALALALALA. In a Hail Mary you send everyone down the short side, you roll that way, you get about 4 seconds or 5 (and he had that) and you heave it up there and hope for a miracle catch or a PI call. That's why the play is called a "Hail Mary". The chance of success on that play is about 0.01% but the chance is zero if you don't throw the ball. I know you know better, you just can't wrap your head around it. And again Willy himself says he blew it. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF SAND How could Willy throw the ball when he didn't have time & his pass blocking broke down? But we know you think Robert Marve would have completed that pass, right? Just because you say so. Of course, you'll love the guy until he fucks up then **** all over him. That's what fans like you do. Fans like me? What the heck are you talking about? Why are you pissed at me? What did I do, other than point out the obvious? Now you're putting words in my mouth. First off, Zack Collaros (no one has said this yet either, really??) Did the same fricken thing earlier in the Toronto game (that's the guy I wanted) and I said (not here) that was a bonehead play. He had 4 seconds ISO - watch the game again, He had enough time. Are you mad because the bombers have lost EIGHT games in a row, and 9 of 10, and you think I have something to do with it. You also realize I'm not the only one who thinks like this. You also realise it's a 'team' game right? You have any idea what a 'team' game is. Here let me explain - in a team game like football, for the offense to be succesful, you have to #1 - pass block. An offensive line, on average will give the QB about 4 to 5 seconds (sometimes less) to make his reads and throw the ball. During that time, the receivers have to run their routes. Also, during that time the QB has to make the right decision and throw the ball during that time frame. When one of those things fail, the QB gets sacked. Watch the game again iso when TSN repeats. Get a stop watch and time him. First sack, Willy had no chance. There were a couple of other sacks he did not get his 5 seconds. Now tell me, have you ever seen a game, where a QB throws the ball to a receiver, and he either A) has to fight through the defender to make the catch, or seen a receiver make a catch and then get hit almost immediately after? Or in your dream world, the receiver has to wide open - as in no defender in sight or 20 yards before you throw him the ball? Describe open. You know, I really really hope you are just trying to get under my skin. You are right? And read my posts from July - I was like you guys, I loved Willy. But week after week after week he was getting worse and worse and worse. This past game was beyond horrible and why he wasn't pulled is beyond me. He was like a goalie in Hockey who couldn't stop a floater - if a goalie was getting scored on left and right, from all angles, would you not pull him? I tell ya - you really take the cake on this one. But yeah, blame 'fans like me' that's why we lost. Fans like me. edit; just to add on Marve - I have no idea if he would have 'completed' the pass, most likely not as they are such low percentage throws. But, I'd bet you 100 bucks he would have thrown the ball.. if he even would have needed to As I said in another thread - if Marve came in in the 3rd quarter - we probably win going away (as b.c. kept killing themselves with penalties) and he wouldn't have had been in a position to throw a hail mary to begin with.

iso iso iso - NO ONE is open on a Hail Mary. Since when do you see an 'open receiver'? You know that for crissakes. Take your fingers out of your ears and stop going LALALALALALALALA. In a Hail Mary you send everyone down the short side, you roll that way, you get about 4 seconds or 5 (and he had that) and you heave it up there and hope for a miracle catch or a PI call. That's why the play is called a "Hail Mary". The chance of success on that play is about 0.01% but the chance is zero if you don't throw the ball. I know you know better, you just can't wrap your head around it. And again Willy himself says he blew it. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF SAND

Gotta be careful about what we read into other people's posts. So far I haven't seen anyone disagreeing that Willy did the wrong thing, everyone's posts I've seen at least for the most part are acknowledging Willy did not get the ball to available reads. But that being said, I think you gotta give Willy props here for acknowledging he didn't. He knows he should've been smarter and I expect if the coaching staff gives him another shot to get it right he will. 1. He didn't throw his teammates under the bus in this one, he took responsibility which is something you like to see out of a guy who does that. 2. Things can change from game to game. 10 sacks is unacceptable, but Willy knows he can avoid those next time, so before we get too Marve crazy, let's not boot him out the door just yet. I'm not booting him out the door, just to the sidelines. I want to win our last game of the year (and last nights game for that matter too) and Willy does not give us a chance to win

No no no - no one was open. Aren't you reading the posts in all these thread? LMAO. Hey - know what I want to know - and I want You Tube links not some 'willy boy' just spouting off. How many times this year as Willy 'looked off' the defense? Cause that's what I hate - the man plays like a 20 year old high school kid. He targets ONE guy, and stays locked on him, Been doing that all year. He admitted it too (for last nights game anyway). I don't ever recall him though, not once this year, looking left when right or center was his target his whole time, then turning and throwing it there (as an example). My fav part of that 'hail mary' play was when he ran to his left. He can't throw ball like that anyway. As soon as he went that way I knew he'd be sacked. And that isn't coaching, - NO ONE told him to do that - that's allllll on Drew Willy.

Yup.. Threats of violence always make your point more valid.. Smh. No - thats more frustration I get what he's saying. It can be infuriating when a 'fan' only see's what they want to see. Willy had all kinds of time to throw, he had receivers open. It was hilarious, on the telecast, Suitor tried to make a point that all the receivers were covered. The 'short' receiver was about 6 yards underneath the coverage, but of course Suits was on a roll so he said he was 'covered'. About 10 minutes of game time after that, Beck got the snap, turned, and fired a dart to Gore I believe it was, who was 'wide open' just like the bomber receiver was above, only the bomber defender was about 3 yards off him. It's amazing all the apologists there are for Drew 'freakin' Willy. At least more fans are finally starting to see what I've been seeing since mid-August. He hasn't nearly been good enough, and tonight was his worst start yet (but low an behold he finally threw another TD pass). But yeah, I get his frustration. Unless you know what the read progression is on the play that is called, it is impossible to say "he had receivers open." Probably the biggest fallacy in football from a fans point of view, when everyone goes "hey, that guy is open!" Ya, but it's the QB's 6th read, and the by the time the ball gets to him the DB or LB is going to completely fill in the "opening" most of the time. About as dumb as the people who yell "shoot" all the time on the powerplay at a hockey game. Perfectly explained. It's really not that difficult of a concept for people to grasp. So why do Brohm and Marve seem capable of moving the SAME offense with the SAME receivers and the SAME oline and the SAME coaching? I've asked this a few times now .... no answers. You can't see for looking can you? Oh, and boys - just to add. Willy HIMSELF said he wasn't going to his second and third reads (which Suitor showed a couple of times on TV where there - were WIDE open). So now you two are in a real dilemma aren't you? Your boy "Willy" actually agrees with ME, not YOU two, so now if you want to agree with Willy, then you have to agree with me, but if you agree with me, then you have to admit I'm right and of course I'm stupid (right Mr.P) so I can't be right, therefore Mr. Drew Willy can't be right, but in your eyes he can't be wrong, and if you two were computers you would melt your micro processors by now trying to figure out your way out of this problem LMAO

I agree 17 - that's why Marve needs to start next week. Willy needs to be sat. I said this three weeks ago. Last thing we need is him getting hit on his shoulder again and it turning chronic like what happened to Khari Jones (and now Lulay it seems). I do believe Willy is our future, but he is definitely not our present. Willy is , by far, the worst starting QB in the league. He's been trending that way since late July when the defenses started figuring out what he was doing. He (Willy) hasn't adjusted his game at all. It's a learning experience for him. I'm sure he'll be better next year. He has to be. If he's not, he won't be a bomber come August, and MOS won't be the HC here either (cause MOS is going to live or die on his arm - that's pretty obvious)

I think you're going to be disappointed. O'Shea said on the coaches show that he is firmly in the camp for having a QB who is a pocket passer. That would explain why Marve ended up as #3, not necessarily because this is his first year and he is inexperienced. It would seem they just aren't enamored by his style, and don't think they can win with him being #1 He wants Ricky Ray / Anthony Cavillo. Can't blame him, those are two of the best for sure. And I do realize that AC was a lot more, even worse, than Drew Willy, when he first came into the league.

Never thought of this angle before but isn't it a QB coach's job to not only prepare but also to protect the QB from this kind of mental and physical abuse? What we have witnessed this season is the deconstruction of a talented young QB with infinite promise into the shambles of a Buck Pierce look-a-like, all under the tutelage of Gene Dalquist. So what is Dalquist's role in all of this? In the least Dalquist should have communicated his concerns directly to O'Shea or Marcel but perhaps he has no real sway or like O'Shea saw nothing wrong in the game-plan last night. Either way, I award Dalquist with a Fail. I'll counter this.. how do we not know he hasn't been doing this? As a coach (or teacher) you can only do so much. You ever the expression that you can 'lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it'. Are you guys insinuating that these professional teachers/coaches are morons and don't know the meaning of the word 'checkdown'. How come Brohm can come in to a game cold (Edmonton) and on his first pass hit a 15 yard strike, something Willy couldn't do in an (almost) entire half. Enough of this. It's not coaching, it's not the water boy, it's not the assistant trainer, it's not the ushers, it's not security. Brohm/Marve play with the same players, same coaching, same offensive scheme. And though they don't have any wins (yet) either, they look a lot better back there running the offense than Willy does. I find it extremely improbable that our coaches are not talking to Willy and telling him about check downs, and reminding him what to do. Do you honestly believe that?

I was screaming at the TV (well MOS actually) mid way through the third quarter when that game was still very winnable (thanks to B.C. and our defense no thanks to Willy). I really believe that MOS was scared to put Marve in because he KNEW Marve would move the ball. I know, that seems very counter intuitive. But Willy is MOS's man - he puts in Marve and all of a sudden the sacks stop, Marve moves the ball, and/or worse wins the game... what happens then? Talk about QB controversy. So by leaving Willy in, we (all of us media, fans, even other teams) can only 'speculate' what would of happened (we would have won going away is what would have happened) instead of guessing. MOS - you better be careful, cause you're next on the hit list. Sooner or later you gotta go with a different QB when Willy is healthy.

Whoa whoa whoa there. You mean..... nah iso, goalie, Mr P and the rest can't be wrong about Drew freaking Willy can they? .... Ummmm, nope, it's me, I'm the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. Its the water boy (right Willy boys) -he's the culprit. Not Drew Willy, He had the time to go to his fourth reads, no one was open. That's why he was sacked. Willy is God, he can do no wrong. Now Willy is Jesus Christ, and he's shouldering the burden of the whole team

You know that's the first good argument I heard about that. That could very well be why he didn't throw the hail mary pass at the end, figured no one would catch it, and didn't want a 'third' interception, so lets just take a sack. I agree - I don't want to see him throw another interception or incomplete pass for the rest of the season - don't want his 'stats' ruined lol. So I say - start Marve, with Philpot (or whatever his name is) as the backup. Willy can sit upstairs with MB. You don't even know the name of qb#3 & you want to play him?? LOL! Clueless. Nope I don't and I'm as clueless as Willy is on the field about it for sure. And speaking about clueless........ wow, just wow iso.

Yup.. Threats of violence always make your point more valid.. Smh. No - thats more frustration I get what he's saying. It can be infuriating when a 'fan' only see's what they want to see. Willy had all kinds of time to throw, he had receivers open. It was hilarious, on the telecast, Suitor tried to make a point that all the receivers were covered. The 'short' receiver was about 6 yards underneath the coverage, but of course Suits was on a roll so he said he was 'covered'. About 10 minutes of game time after that, Beck got the snap, turned, and fired a dart to Gore I believe it was, who was 'wide open' just like the bomber receiver was above, only the bomber defender was about 3 yards off him. It's amazing all the apologists there are for Drew 'freakin' Willy. At least more fans are finally starting to see what I've been seeing since mid-August. He hasn't nearly been good enough, and tonight was his worst start yet (but low an behold he finally threw another TD pass). But yeah, I get his frustration. Unless you know what the read progression is on the play that is called, it is impossible to say "he had receivers open." Probably the biggest fallacy in football from a fans point of view, when everyone goes "hey, that guy is open!" Ya, but it's the QB's 6th read, and the by the time the ball gets to him the DB or LB is going to completely fill in the "opening" most of the time. About as dumb as the people who yell "shoot" all the time on the powerplay at a hockey game. Are you a pro Qb? Juran, I'll ask you then you seem to 'know your stuff'. Explain to me how our second stringer, Brian Brohm, and our third stringers, Robert Marve, can, with the same receivers, same oline, and same OC, and same play calling, make plays, and Willy can't? This is a legit question 'cause I definitely don't have a clue. Thanks in advance