17to85

he wasn't good at any point and Darvin Adams is a better option. Kelly had no business being on the roster at all. Stop trying to make like he was good. He wasn't even better than Romby Bryant.

if the back is experienced but not good enough is it worth it? I'd rather try a rookie out. That's how we got Marshall. If you keep using retreads you'll never find any good rookies. At this time of year especially you should be bringing in rookies for a look see unless you're planning on going deep in the playoffs and want that veteran insurance policy.

Except that Kelly was a retread. He washed out of Hamilton and the league until the Bombers gave him another shot. I believe he was one of Bellefeuilles guys from Hamilton and he wasn't good enough there, why did we think he was going to be good enough here? We sure could use a big target on the sidelines, but more along the lines of Chris Matthews (who Mack dug up out of nowhere) as opposed to Aaron Kelly who was not good enough for the CFL once before the bombers went dumpster diving. Veltung is the only receiver this regime has actually recruited from the states that has even looked like he could play for us. I'd argue that Kelly is the exact opposite situation you describe. A case where the coach brought in someone he liked and stubbornly stuck with him despite the player not being good enough. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Kelly was worth keeping he was too slow I am just saying he was important to the Bombers last year and contributed greatly to at less 3 of the 6 wins he was involved in. He was benched for the last 4 or so games, what I am saying is the Bombers made a coaching mistake to put their Egos ahead of the team when they benched Kelly and they started playing rookies that have since been cut. My entire point is that I agree Walters needs to improve but when you give a good player to a bad coach what do you get ? I liked Marcel B. at first but I have grown to have no faith in anything he does, I think he is simply over his head and just a stubborn as MOS... So to me we should be focusing on the real problem not Walters but the Coaching in particular our OC , ST and OL coaches are simply not good enough...IMO... I think you missed the point, the entire point was Kelly was never good enough to be starting but he was cause he had a relationship with Bellefeuille. If Walters recruiting was up to par Kelly never would have been on the opening game roster and a few big catches here and there doesn't change that he was a pretty terrible player.

Did he really? He had the chance to pay a premium for an expiring contract without even the chance to talk to the guy first. Edmonton go the chance to talk to him I believe, and they signed him almost instantly after the trade was made. All signs point to Reilly wanting to go to Edmonton and Buono being Buono and trying to grift another GM into a bad trade.

Except that Kelly was a retread. He washed out of Hamilton and the league until the Bombers gave him another shot. I believe he was one of Bellefeuilles guys from Hamilton and he wasn't good enough there, why did we think he was going to be good enough here? We sure could use a big target on the sidelines, but more along the lines of Chris Matthews (who Mack dug up out of nowhere) as opposed to Aaron Kelly who was not good enough for the CFL once before the bombers went dumpster diving. Veltung is the only receiver this regime has actually recruited from the states that has even looked like he could play for us. I'd argue that Kelly is the exact opposite situation you describe. A case where the coach brought in someone he liked and stubbornly stuck with him despite the player not being good enough.

I seem to recall Brohm looking passable in his only start last year, but it got de-railed when he too got hurt. I really see Marve as a better change of pace guy so perhaps it makes sense to start with Brohm and if you need to shake it up put in Marve. Given that both qbs have their weaknesses and different styles perhaps it's time for a good old fashioned platoon.

Even in training camp this year there really weren't many rookies that jumped off the page. It seems like with the previous regime there was always at least one or two guys that jumped out at you. Whether it was Clarence Denmark or Ian Wild or whoever. We also seemed to have a better midseason pipeline as well, but maybe that's just me not remembering things well. Who was the last midseason addition who came in and made an impact? I can remember guys like Greg Carr coming in partway through and making an impact.

I think it's worth mentioning that when talking about qbs, when Mack first got here he signed Pierce and Jyles as qbs, they were the top 2 free agent guys and signing Pierce is easily comparable to signing Willy. Team looked OK when the guy was healthy but after that it was lacking. I'll say this though, I didn't like either of the picks Mack made at head coach and I quite like the choice of Mike O'Shea that Walters made. Basically it works out like this: Walters has done some good things but he hasn't done enough of them. Mack did some good things but again he didn't do enough of them.

Is Cam Marshall hurt? I don't get it. Walker is the Lightning to Marshall's Thunder. Yes but they're doing it backwards. They like to start with the small fast guy then use the big strong guy later, they should be pounding the big guy early and then when the D is tired burn em with the speed.

Did he? That was what, 15 years ago? Then what did he do in SK? There was a rumor that much of his highly regarded "birddogging" with the Bombers was simply following up leads (Ryland Wickman introduced him to Charles Roberts) and of course, Dave Ritchie. The guy is done. Yeah but every GM does that. No CFL team has that extensive a scouting network. That's why guys like Tillman do have success, they have big networks and lots of connections to follow up leads from. How do you think Joe Mack was able to bring in more talent from the states? Better connected.

Actually, there are no examples of the offense 'clicking' without involving the RB's so I don't think he has a case. Are there any examples of the offense clicking without the passing game working? You are still trying to argue that correlation = causation.

No one is giving Marve too much grief for his mistakes. Throwing across the body for the int didn't bother me that much because that's a rookie mistake, not being able to connect on long balls though that's something else entirely. You can watch his passes and see he's not close on them, that's the concern here. He's a professional quarterback in his 2nd year, surely to god he should be able to better place a ball than he has shown.

This is hopeful, but Walker has a long history of being a terrible receiver in this league.Where's the "Fire Walters" thread? Start it up and I'll be there. Is it a case of the guy having no faith in his scouting or rookies in general or do the scouts just suck that much? Getting real tired of seeing other teams pluck unknown players out of nowhere but Walters is on every guy who's had a cup of coffee in the CFL like a fat kid on a smartie. He is the complete anti-thesis to Joe Mack which is not what this team needed, you need someone who does everything well. O'Shea will be gone before Walters. GMs usually have a shelf life of at least one HC they hired before they're fired themselves. So, if the Bombers keep sucking this season Walters will still have a job in 2016. yeah which is unfortunate because oshea is better at his job then walters is. We had a decent season going until injuries hit and the total lack of depth was exposed and it all fell apart.

Do we really though? I think so. Look at our Canadian depth compared to the Mack and even the Taman regimes and you'll see its much improved. Sure we don't have any superstars anymore like Doug or Henoc, but we have a lot more guys who are capable and can contribute as starters or at least as rotational players. I don't know that the depth really is that much better and the best Canadian player we have was signed as a free agent out of the NFL not even a drafted guy... Walters has done a pretty good job in free agency but other than that I still find him wanting.

Do we really though?

Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton Yeah but isn't Hamilton like 3 or more deep on the depth chart already? I don't think the other two are all that lacking either.

60% because of the short throws, how's that translate into an effective offence? If you can't complete deeper throws all you're doing is shrinking the amount of field a team has to defend when playing you and you get games like the Calgary game where there's under 200 yards offence and multiple interceptions. Marve sucks throwing deep, that shouldn't be something a multiple year profession has that much trouble with period. He needs to come back next week and show that he can be a quarterback and not just a glorified running back.

This is hopeful, but Walker has a long history of being a terrible receiver in this league. Where's the "Fire Walters" thread? Start it up and I'll be there. Is it a case of the guy having no faith in his scouting or rookies in general or do the scouts just suck that much? Getting real tired of seeing other teams pluck unknown players out of nowhere but Walters is on every guy who's had a cup of coffee in the CFL like a fat kid on a smartie. He is the complete anti-thesis to Joe Mack which is not what this team needed, you need someone who does everything well.

2 other teams have already decided they don't need the guy he's a runningback, those guys don't get 3 chances to fail I know that. I don't necessarily like the move myself, but really, what the hell harm can it do? It can prevent some new face that might be an actual good player from coming here and potentially helping in the future.

I'm just pointing what worked in our 3 wins, not saying the offense doesn't have it warts, because it does. But involving your RB's more, especially with a green qb, is never a bad idea. And I'm pointing out that correlation does not always equal causation. You say more touches for rbs means the offense work better, I'm saying that it's the offence working better that gives the runningbacks more touches.

but his lack of accuracy is alarming. I don't care how raw a guy is throwing the ball to the right spot should be a requirement to even get a look at this level.

2 other teams have already decided they don't need the guy he's a runningback, those guys don't get 3 chances to fail

I think that is more evidence to the fact that they ARE dime a dozen.... Americans are always being replaced because there's so damned many of them. Only the Canadians get a chance to really establish themselves over multiple years. Is there any team that really lacks a capable effective running back or 3?

This is pretty much exactly what I thought was happening. He looked like he'd panic and run directly into trouble. Sure he may have a suitable amount of time but was his receiver open? He's trying to make something happen at that stage in the game, throwing into the stands wasn't an option. Single coverage was further downfield - I'm sure guys like Denmark and Moore can get open one on one. Denmark has stunk this year, even said so himself in the paper and Moore, if he plays is going up against the defences best cover man, the rest of our receivers probably don't even belong on a professional field of play. Here's an example, against Toronto Marve had Denmark open deep and missed the throw by 10 yards. It's not that there's no options to throw it deep, it's that when Marve does throw it deep he is not throwing a catchable ball. I know people love to hate on the coaches, I dislike Bellefeuille as a coach too and I argued for him to be fired before Etchevary was fired, but come on, Marve hasn't done anything to make teams respect his arm. They bait him to throw deep and he buys it, they don't believe he can throw over the top accurately so they sit and wait for him to try and run and make him make a mistake by waiting for it. He's predictable and until he can open up the coverage by actually passing the ball well it's going to be more of the same. Yes, first series of the game, he was jacked up and over threw him no doubt. He's a rookie, those things happen, I'll wait to have more data than just one over throw to say the guy' can't pass or throw' as some seem to think. That's not the only deep ball he's thrown poorly just an obvious example that came to mind instantly. What about the one against Calgary he underthrew to I think Denmark when he was double covered? MAybe you were at the game but you know what Matt Dunigan said on that one? Said it was a terrible decision, the db was baiting him and he threw it anyway, lucky he wasn't picked off. If he looked to the other side of the field he had an option. Look I want Marve to do well but the guy isn't ready to play quarterback. Doesn't read the field quick enough and his arm might be strong but he hasn't connected on one deep attempt yet. That is basic stuff. Even if you can't read a defence you should be able to throw a deep ball to a place the receiver can catch it.

Doesn't address the two slugs we have on the D-line. What saying we need to improve the DL doesn't address that?