17to85

You are also a negative nancy far too often.

I tried to explain to you how you needed to focus your complaints, but you just kept on with the scatter shot complain about everything mentality. That's why people are giving you grief. I explained why taking guys at non OL positions early isn't that bad IF you use the ratio flexibility properly and you should focus your complaining on that, but instead you kept on complaining about that, and the other thing, and something else. You really are a curmudgeon.

Marve offered hope after Brohm. Now we seem to know what he's about. Dominique Davis, next? So the Mike Kelly school of handling qbs? Leave a trail of broken qbs behind you and nothing in the system be rushing players hoping for a miracle? Outside of Ricky Ray quarterbacks take time to develop. You rush them in a bad situation you have destroyed whatever potential they might have. You think it's a coincidence that the teams that have been able to actually develop qbs have had a stable situation like Calgary with some former qbs/offensive gurus and veterans to bring along youngsters or Toronto with Ray as the established starter and Milanovich as a bit of a guru? Really who else has developed a qb? Sask with Durant and Willy who learned behind him.... Reilly developed behind Lulay... Hamilton didn't develop ****, they had to get a qb from Toronto, Montreal has tried a bunch of guys and they've all been found wanting. Edmonton has had a lot of guys go through and none of them have turned into much. Maybe Franklin is different, maybe he just had the good first game and will come back to reality? Remains to be seen. You know how you get a good quarterbacking situation? Stability from the GM to the coaches to the players. We have not had stability in GMs or coaches or players in an eternity. It's not that we bring in useless players, it's that they never get a chance to develop properly. They're always tossed into the deep end and expected to swim.

I don't think they quit, I think they were just in over their heads. Hey if you get offended being compared to Nasty Nate don't offend O'Shea comparing him to Burke. He is a way better coach than Burke could ever hope to be. I don't see the evidence that O'Shea is better than Burke. They were both good coordinators with bad head coaching records. Other than style, what's the difference? I don't see the players quitting on O'Shea. They gave up on Burke entirely. Yeah the team right now has a hard time rebounding from a couple poor plays, but it's different than a team that just packs it in entirely. I mean just looking at that Calgary game, the defense fought tooth and nail in the first half to try and give the offense all the chances they needed to win but the execution simply wasn't there on offence. With Burke the team visibly checked out about 5 minutes into a game. 4 blow outs says otherwise Blow outs aren't the only story. Sometimes a blow out just happens because you're over matched. With Burke the team quit on him and as I said, I don't see the team quitting on O'Shea. I see them getting overwhelmed by negative plays and it takes them a while to recover, at which point the other team has generally opened up an insurmountable lead. This teams problem is it can't shake off poor plays quick enough and can't capitalize well enough on the big plays they do get. Let's look at this past game as an example. Calgary turns the ball over in the endzone, what do the Bombers do? They turn it right back over and Calgary immediately puts it in the endzone. Bombers block a punt and come away with only a field goal. Calgary gets an INT to start the 2nd half and it's in the endzone. See what I mean? Gotta be able to capitalize on the big plays and recover quickly when you make a bad play.

Hey if you get offended being compared to Nasty Nate don't offend O'Shea comparing him to Burke. He is a way better coach than Burke could ever hope to be. I don't see the evidence that O'Shea is better than Burke. They were both good coordinators with bad head coaching records. Other than style, what's the difference? I don't see the players quitting on O'Shea. They gave up on Burke entirely. Yeah the team right now has a hard time rebounding from a couple poor plays, but it's different than a team that just packs it in entirely. I mean just looking at that Calgary game, the defense fought tooth and nail in the first half to try and give the offense all the chances they needed to win but the execution simply wasn't there on offence. With Burke the team visibly checked out about 5 minutes into a game. I agree the players haven't given up on O'Shea yet, he is much more of a leader than Tim B. however I do have many issues with O'Shea's style I think he is too easy on the players in practice and he gives then too much "rest" IMO , Cal Murphy wasn't too working about keeping his players fresh he wanted them to work in practice and lots of them... I think for a team that has gone 4-14 over its past 18 games ( and only 3 without Willy ) we are not a very good team and its not from a lack of talent IMO its poor coaching especially our OC , ST and OL Coaches... Coaching has changed and evolved since Cal Murphy was coaching. The task master doesn't work anymore.

What I want to know is where all the Rah Rah Marve types have gone and whether they want to apologize for arguing with me when I tried to say calm down and that Marve needed to show he could pass from the pocket or he'd be easy to defend. Lo and behold teams are making him play from the pocket and begging him to throw up risky balls. He needs to be able to hit some deep throws to loosen things up, so far his deep attempts have been to be frank, awful.

Considering that we signed Sam Hurl to a big contract & have Bass & Randle as well on the outside I don't see Waggoner starting at MLB as some have suggested for a long time, if ever. He's a depth player for us right now. That's all he may ever be. As far as some saying here they trust Walters with this pick, what has he done the past 2 seasons to earn that trust? He's 9-18 career as a GM with the Bombers. There's nothing saying that Waggoner has to be a MLB. But, if he won the spot over Hurl, then I would call that upgrading our Canadian talent, which is a good thing, right? Again, you keep going on about the O line and how we're going to miss out on talent but you don't say who that talent actually is. Sounds to me like you're complaining for the sake of complaining. You don't like Walters, fine. I'm not sold on him either, but I think that Waggoner was a smart call. Is it guaranteed to work out? Of course not. But no pick ever is. ISO? nooooooo never..... half the time I don't think he even cares what it is as long as he's complaining about somethng.

I think you can pretty safely write this season off. The separation you mention is happening and it's leaving us clearly behind everyone else. Our offence has shown a fundamental lack of anything without Drew at the helm. What separation though? Still the same number of wins as BC and they have problems of their own, more wins than the riders, one less than Montreal, 2 less then Ottawa.... Sure Calgary and Edmonton and Hamilton and Toronto are pulling ahead but so what? We're talking about taking the 3rd playoff spot in the west here and they're only 1 win back of that right now and could find themselves sitting in that position if they take advantage of the Riders. BC is a bit of a gong show too, but they've played one less game, and Harris can drag the rest of them to a couple more wins. We're ahead of the Riders for now, but in their losses they've looked a hell of a lot more impressive than we have of late (their last game notwithstanding). Everyone in the East is ahead of us and I don't see our ability to overtake any of them. We need to finish ahead of three teams to make the play offs. We are only ahead of the Riders and our offence right now is unable to win us a game. I personally see us falling further back behind at least the six play off teams. We are tied with BC in wins and hold the tie breaker, I take issue with your assessment that we are only ahead of one team. You are dismissing the trouble the Lions have and over estimating the RIders. We lost to Toronto by 1 score the week before this, too much emphasis based on a blowout to what is probably the best team in the league. Our defence looked good until the back breaking pick 6 to start the 2nd half. Let's not completely write off what the Bombers have here. They are 1 win out of a playoff spot. Hardly time to be tossing the season out the window. Be an optimist prime not a negatron.

Hey if you get offended being compared to Nasty Nate don't offend O'Shea comparing him to Burke. He is a way better coach than Burke could ever hope to be. I don't see the evidence that O'Shea is better than Burke. They were both good coordinators with bad head coaching records. Other than style, what's the difference? I don't see the players quitting on O'Shea. They gave up on Burke entirely. Yeah the team right now has a hard time rebounding from a couple poor plays, but it's different than a team that just packs it in entirely. I mean just looking at that Calgary game, the defense fought tooth and nail in the first half to try and give the offense all the chances they needed to win but the execution simply wasn't there on offence. With Burke the team visibly checked out about 5 minutes into a game.

You want a proven head coach then your only option is Trestman. No not Higgins. Everyone else with experience who isn't 100 years old has been given a shot to be a head coach and failed. That's why it's always coordinators getting hired these days. You know what' better than firing a decent head coach in Mike O'Shea? Giving him enough depth on the roster so that a few injuries don't derail the entire thing. We need to stop blaming coaches here. Kyle Walters seems to be the teflon man but 2 years now he has simply not brought in enough talent from the States to this team and his drafting is fairly over rated as well. He's done some good work in signing CFL free agents but outside of that he is lacking and needs to be better before we think that a new coach will magically fix everything. Apart from the steaming mess in Montreal, Higgins has had success, and I believe would be better than O'Shea. Walters deserves his share of criticism as does McManus but good players look worse under bad coaches, so that has to be looked at, too. Higgins had success with Ricky Ray and prime Henry Burris forgive me for not thinking he's all that as a coach.

Maybe Waggoner can throw the ball?Unbelievable. If you hold the first pick you can trade it for assets or make the pick. No offense to Waggoner but we're really handicapped here. We won't be rebuilding our OL with a second round pick.If Waggoner is truly a first round talent, I've got no problem with Walters using it this year in the supplemental draft.So, we grabbed Waggoner & say we finish last or second last. Then have nothing to show for it? We need offensive linemen not linebackers or defensive backs. How does that make us better? It doesn't. Not saying Waggoner isn't a good player but in the big picture with everything we need on offense, I don't believe he was worth a first round pick.I trust Walters assessment on Waggoner. For all we know he could be our starting MLB in a year or two. Or not. What do we need right now? What part of the team has been killing it for years? What do we need the most? A future middle linebacker or an offensive lineman that can block? Unless we are extremely lucky as in fluke we'll never find that player in the second round. I mean, hey... it's taken half a decade to get where we are now with the offensive line, why not stretch it out to a decade? Nothing says you have to use a bunch of Canadians on your offensive line. We're starting 8 Canadians now, there is no reason that we couldn't use 3 americans on the offensive line. I wish they would chose that option. Our other Canadian players can hold down the fort, but they are stuck in the old timey mindset that you just use Canadians on the offensive line and that's that. When Dave Ritchie was here they had no problems using an american on the interior of the offensive line, wish they'd give it a try now because I think it could really help. I absolutely agree & have been saying what you've just said but the mindset is there... So if you agree why get so bent out of shape when they take a linebacker with a high pick instead of an OL? Focus your energy on fighting for the ration flexibility to help the OL not on drafting OL high.

You want a proven head coach then your only option is Trestman. No not Higgins. Everyone else with experience who isn't 100 years old has been given a shot to be a head coach and failed. That's why it's always coordinators getting hired these days. You know what' better than firing a decent head coach in Mike O'Shea? Giving him enough depth on the roster so that a few injuries don't derail the entire thing. We need to stop blaming coaches here. Kyle Walters seems to be the teflon man but 2 years now he has simply not brought in enough talent from the States to this team and his drafting is fairly over rated as well. He's done some good work in signing CFL free agents but outside of that he is lacking and needs to be better before we think that a new coach will magically fix everything.

Hey if you get offended being compared to Nasty Nate don't offend O'Shea comparing him to Burke. He is a way better coach than Burke could ever hope to be.

Maybe Waggoner can throw the ball?Unbelievable. If you hold the first pick you can trade it for assets or make the pick. No offense to Waggoner but we're really handicapped here. We won't be rebuilding our OL with a second round pick.If Waggoner is truly a first round talent, I've got no problem with Walters using it this year in the supplemental draft.So, we grabbed Waggoner & say we finish last or second last. Then have nothing to show for it? We need offensive linemen not linebackers or defensive backs. How does that make us better? It doesn't. Not saying Waggoner isn't a good player but in the big picture with everything we need on offense, I don't believe he was worth a first round pick.I trust Walters assessment on Waggoner. For all we know he could be our starting MLB in a year or two. Or not. What do we need right now? What part of the team has been killing it for years? What do we need the most? A future middle linebacker or an offensive lineman that can block? Unless we are extremely lucky as in fluke we'll never find that player in the second round. I mean, hey... it's taken half a decade to get where we are now with the offensive line, why not stretch it out to a decade? Nothing says you have to use a bunch of Canadians on your offensive line. We're starting 8 Canadians now, there is no reason that we couldn't use 3 americans on the offensive line. I wish they would chose that option. Our other Canadian players can hold down the fort, but they are stuck in the old timey mindset that you just use Canadians on the offensive line and that's that. When Dave Ritchie was here they had no problems using an american on the interior of the offensive line, wish they'd give it a try now because I think it could really help.

I think you can pretty safely write this season off. The separation you mention is happening and it's leaving us clearly behind everyone else. Our offence has shown a fundamental lack of anything without Drew at the helm. What separation though? Still the same number of wins as BC and they have problems of their own, more wins than the riders, one less than Montreal, 2 less then Ottawa.... Sure Calgary and Edmonton and Hamilton and Toronto are pulling ahead but so what? We're talking about taking the 3rd playoff spot in the west here and they're only 1 win back of that right now and could find themselves sitting in that position if they take advantage of the Riders.

The impressive part is the Liberals rebounding. Perhaps people like the fact that Trudeau isn't BSing about running a deficit while Mulcair saying no deficits has made them take a long hard look at what else he's bullshitting them about. It looks like you might win people start to take a harder look at the stuff you are promising. The NDP relying so much on momentum a long campaign likely hurts them as they might have spent all their momentum already. Not sure how they can get it back to be honest.

Maybe I'm being Spudsian in my opinion here, but it's certainly not time to write the season off yet. Still got a chance at the playoffs which is a good goal for this team considering where it started from and where it is now. 3 games against the Riders and Lions and if they can take care of business there then why can't they wind up 3rd in the west? Oh sure maybe the east crosses over but I don't see it. There's going to be some separation happening there pretty soon. I'd be a lot more confident with Drew Willy of course but hey maybe they figure things out. I won't write the season off until they lose back to back to the Riders.

Play calling is only part of the problem. Against Calgary it was a toss up between which was worse, the offensive line or the quarterbacking. When those two facets are struggling so much what play can you call that is reasonably expected to work? Honestly I don't think Marve is ready for the scrap heap just yet, he's got some things he needs to get better at for sure, but a lot of what happened to him seemed to be a young qb not being able to deal with the pressure he was facing. That's something that bothers even veteran qbs.

Would have liked to see the RIders pick up this win. 0-9 looking for the first win on Labour Day while the Bombers qb situation is pretty crappy.... I've seen this movie before and I don't like it one bit.

O'Shea is a terrible head coach. The only difference between he & Burke is he doesn't cry. Results exactly the same. They lose & lose & lose. Iso...what hard facts do you have that proves Mike O'Shea a terrible head coach? Sure you can look at the record but i'm not sure that alone is evidence enough. In my opinion Mike O'Shea is at this time an average head coach who could become a good one. But even the best head coaches in this league have had their lows. Other than that you have no real evidence of his ability to coach. Other than your subjective views. Yeah, I do. 4-14 the past 18 games. That's a hard fact. Head coaches get fired with a record like that. You can spin things any way you want but the bottom line to me is his record. He's brutal. his backup and can't make routine throws or handle pressure and his offensive line gets dominated... Why blame the coach for a clear failure on the part of the guy who built this roster that can't handle any injuries?

Yeah but Cortez has a good track record. MB does not. You can't compare the two. Yes. But the point was not to settle on finding scapegoats when the trouble is more wide spread.as a Hamilton fan you should know bellefool isn't the answer to anything, butitblows my mind how bomber fans are quick to throw O'Shea under the bus when it's clearly Walters and co not giving the team enough talent or depth to compete. Seriously guys, we are nowhere close to being deep enough or good enough on paper.

Now I'm all for replacing bellefool but seriously guys, what game plan works when the ol is so thoroughly dominated? Large was getting sacked by 3 man rushes. How is that not a damningindictmentof the offensive line?

one more than we had when Taman was here. That's been the Bombers MO prior to Miller. Cheap out on football ops.

it was posted a long time ago so no worries about bringing it up again. Like I said it really is an interesting talk.

Well we had guys like Elliott and Dinwiddie impress in their first games too. The key as always is how they do over the long haul.