J5V
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Posts posted by J5V
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Just now, AtlanticRiderFan said:
Mine is based on the total number of cases as well. Deaths divided by number of cases in that country
Okay, I give up! LOL!!
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3 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:
What were the deaths a week ago in denmark?
Not sure, let me see ... looks like 187 for Denmark and 477 for Sweden.
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2 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:
Based on worldometers.info stats (compiled from Johns Hopkins and WHO data, and cited by Floyd in an earlier post), your statement that Denmark in a lockdown is doing as bad as Sweden in non-lockdown is wrong. Your next statement that Sweden a week ago had a 3.82% mortality rate is, well I won't say wrong, I prefer to say it's a lie.
As of April 13 -
Sweden: population 10.099 million (#91 in the world), 10,948 cases (19th), 919 deaths (14th), 91 deaths per million pop. (12th), and a mortality rate of 8.4% (deaths/total cases)
Denmark: population 5.792 million (#115 in the world), 6,318 cases (31st), 285 deaths (26th), 41 deaths per million pop. (20th), and a mortality rate of 4.5% (deaths/total cases)
Finland: population 5.540 million (#116 in the world), 3,064 cases (46th), 59 deaths (52nd), 11 deaths per million pop. (48th), and a mortality rate of 1.9% (deaths/total cases)
Norway: population 5.421 million (#119 in the world), 6,551 cases (29th), 134 deaths (34th), 25 deaths per million pop. (27th), and a mortality rate of 2.0% (deaths/total cases)
One week ago, Sweden had 477 deaths and 7,206 cases, for a mortality rate of 6.6%
Helps your argument if you don't make stuff up to back your hypothesis.
AtlanticRiderFan's numbers were based on total population, yours on number of cases.
Death rate of Denmark= 273/6369*100= 4.3%
Death rate of Sweden=899/10483*100=8.6%The number I saw from last week for Sweden was 400 but we'll use your figure of 477.
477/10483*100 equals 4.55% which is virtually identical to Denmark's 4.3% so I'll stand on those numbers.I won't call you a liar and claim you made stuff up as that would be attacking you personally. I'll just assume you made a mistake in comparing apples to oranges.
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Just now, wanna-b-fanboy said:
So what are the respective death rates then?
I got 4.7 and 8.7 per 100 000- please some one check my math.
No, you're right, and I apologize if I wasn't clear. These numbers are jumping all over the place as things change daily. These trends will become clearer as more time goes by.
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35 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:
Don't shake your head at me- that is exactly what you implied here below.
Get your ******* facts straight before you condescend to me.
You can't be serious. Deaths is not the same as death rate. You're welcome.
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44 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:
Yes 899 deaths is the same as 273, but to be fair Sweden's population is much higher than Denmark's and the population density of Denmark is crazy high compared to Sweden... so it's hard to compare.
Yeah, I said 899 is the same as 273. Uh huh. SMH
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21 minutes ago, AtlanticRiderFan said:
Did some math. (Numbers from CBC coronavirus tracker)
Death rate of Denmark= 273/6369*100= 4.3%
Death rate of Sweden=899/10483*100=8.6%
Sweden's death rate (to the nearest tenth) is exactly double that of Denmark's. How is that about the same?
And that approach is precisely how you overrun the healthcare system. The prolonging is so that the system can actually accommodate everyone who gets coronavirus. Otherwise, more people die because they can't receive proper treatment.
A week ago Sweden had 400 deaths which would have put them at 3.82%. They have spiked since then, as expected. They will adjust as they see necessary.
"However in other places in Sweden, travel and tourism have increased during Easter, despite the appeal to stay at home.
“We have seen an extra influx of people, and it worries me a bit”, says Simrishamn Municipal councillor Jeanette Ovesson.
“It's hard to say if it has any impact. We will see possible consequences in a couple of weeks. But there has been no higher burden on health care these days”, says Ovesson" -
Just now, Floyd said:
Korea didn't lock down...
Interesting.
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Just now, Mark H. said:
A nice, neat argument - until you look at what Norway has achieved.
Norway, like Korea, has really low numbers as they locked down almost immediately. Their fear is that when they relax the restrictions they will experience a spike in infections and away we go again. This is exactly what has happened in places like China. So the question may become, do we have a long, drawn out battle with this thing which destroys our economy and leads to mass social problems, or do we bite the bullet now, save the economy, avoid the social problems and get it over with? It remains to be seen which approach is best.
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9 hours ago, AtlanticRiderFan said:
And Sweden has more cases per capita than we do, and they have more ACTUAL deaths than we do. More deaths for country with a quarter of our population is a lot. Sweden is not a good model for fighting COVID.
In the video he said that Denmark, Sweden's neighbour, went into full lockdown mode, like us, and is experiencing about the same death rate as Sweden. If that's true, then what's the point of a lockdown? Add to that the fact that Sweden hasn't "cratered" their economy and the strategy makes sense. Their approach is to take the brunt of it now and get it over with instead of prolonging the pain and suffering of a protracted lockdown.
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Nicaragua and COVID-19 - Western media's best kept secret
http://www.tortillaconsal.com/tortilla/node/9033
- Nicaragua has not established, nor will it establish, any kind of quarantine.
- People who have symptoms of COVID-19 and also have some link to someone with the proven disease will be admitted to a health unit for study and follow-up.
- Those who also test positive for COVID-19 will be admitted to one of the centres for the treatment of patients with the disease.
- People who are admitted from countries at risk (as defined by WHO) will not be restricted from moving within the country, but will be alerted to the precautionary measures to be taken and asked for a contact number and address to follow up by phone and visits.
"With similarities to Sweden's successful strategy to tackle the pandemic, Nicaragua bases its strategy on confidence in the population's ability to take preventive measures while avoiding restrictions on economic activity to the greatest extent possible."
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"The Venezuelan government announced a series of measures on Sunday in attempts to protect the population from the economic effects of the coronavirus crisis.
Speaking on a live televised address, President Nicolás Maduro instructed that all commercial and residential rent, as well as all capital and loan interest payments, are to be suspended for six months.
Public- and private-sector workers will receive a special government bonus, and wages of small and midsize companies will be paid by the state until September. A pre-existing workplace stability decree has also been extended until the end of the year, outlawing job dismissals as a result of the quarantine.
Loan appeals by small and medium businesses are to be fast-tracked, and a special agricultural investment plan will look to guarantee the contents of the subsidized Local Food Production and Provision Committees (CLAP) food boxes for a reported seven million families. Telecommunications companies have also been barred from cutting off customers for six months.
Upon unveiling the measures, Maduro promised to use “all his power and consciousness to protect jobs” and the most vulnerable in society during the quarantine lockdown."
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34 minutes ago, bustamente said:
Got one like that for the flu?
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42 minutes ago, Floyd said:
Would be really important to see graphs with cases/recovered/critical/death all laid out
Given the 2-10 days for symptoms and then another two weeks to death after that - numbers that came out of China fairly early on...
So we are still only seeing the death rate for 'no response' - it is much lower than predicted and not increasing exponentially - very good news.
The 'no response' ICU/death rate should continue for another 7-10 days
In two weeks, the national death rate for Covid should be extremely low if lockdown is working - which it seems to be...
Ontario/Quebec infection rate is under 10% while BC is down to 2-3%
60 patients in ICU, around 150 hospitalized at peak now consistently dropping
It seems like 20-40 more deaths in BC and then it drops completely off if Horgan did things rightIt doesn't matter. As you may recall, I predicted to you that the agenda would be no normalcy, regardless, until they had a vaccine that would be mandated on us resulting in a huge windfall for Big Pharma. Will this virus mutate? Will we be throwing tens of millions of doses of vaccine in the garbage again like we did with SARS? Will Big Pharma make tens of billions like they did after the bird flu scares in 2006 and 2007? No matter.
Right on schedule Trudeau came out with the announcement yesterday.
"Canadians won’t be able to return to life as they knew it before the novel coronavirus pandemic until a vaccine is available, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Thursday."
“Normality as it was before will not come back full-on until we get a vaccine for this… That will be a very long way off,” the prime minister said during his daily news conference on Canada’s response to the COVID-19 outbreak."
“We will have to remain vigilant for at least a year,” he added in French.
Not a word about the economy or the effects this policy will have on the health of the nation as a whole. I cannot imagine what the economic devastation will be if we shut this country down for an entire year but there will not be anything normal about it. Our response to this thing, in my opinion, is absolutely insane.
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8 minutes ago, Goalie said:
I work for a grocery store. Prices are raised on toilet paper and thats about it. The reason? Ppl are ******* hoarding
That doesn't surprise me. Are people not hoarding food too? Everything I'm seeing online tells me that the experts expect prices to rise 4% on veggies and 6% on meat. My wife says it has already exceeded that. I get it, border closures, supply chain issues, and plexiglass installations have got to increase costs in an industry which already operates on razor-thin margins.
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8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
oh so you're just talking about the baseline rate huh, silly me, I thought you were expecting that sort of thing to sky rocket with this tanked economy. Go on and show me the numbers. Otherwise you're just being alarmist.
I don't buy for a second you give a **** about poverty and starvation because if you did you wouldn't be going on and on about how important the economy is. People who focus on the economy tend to be the most selfish types and they only want to get theirs and **** everyone else.
I mean you're fine letting more people die just so the economy is strong.
Attacking me personally doesn't do anything for your argument, which apparently is that there is no poverty or starvation and it isn't going to get worse now that we've tanked our economy. Good luck with that, rainbows and unicorns in your world.
https://www.thestar.com/business/2020/03/31/food-prices-set-to-rise-amid-covid-19-crisis.html
I just asked my wife if she's noticed prices have spiked for groceries. She says oh for sure! I asked her how much, what percentage. She responded easily 10% which exceeds the predictions quoted by the experts.
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24 minutes ago, 17to85 said:
Well where is all this starvation and poverty? Or are you being alarmist and buying the hype and panic being spread by certain circles?
Ever read Mel Hertig's book, The Truth About Canada"? A few excerpts ...
“In 1989, the House of Commons passed a unanimous resolution, claiming that they would end child poverty by the year 2000. This was considered a major breakthrough. Nineteen years on, and where are we? Child poverty today is exactly the same as when they passed the resolution. So what happened? The GDP has more than doubled since that resolution. That’s about $900 billion.
“With child poverty still a problem, you would think our social spending would be at least on par with other European countries, but no. Of the 30 OECD countries, we’re 25th in social spending. There are developed countries that have a quarter of the child poverty that we do, and they’re still more competitive in business than us. Their taxes are higher, and they’re still ahead of us. Where did all of our money go?
“Beginning with the Mulroney government, there’s been a huge downgrading in the role government plays in combating poverty. Right now, the level of welfare in Canada is far below the level it was back in 1980. Meanwhile our largest corporations have charted all-time record profits for four consecutive years. Of the 30 OECD countries, we rank 21st in citizen taxes, while we’re 27th in corporate taxes. So it’s the people who bear the high cost of poverty and taxation. That’s no way to run a country.”
You do realize there was poverty and starvation IN CANADA before this covid-19, right? Do you somehow think that has improved now that we've tanked our economy?
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2 hours ago, 17to85 said:
I must have missed all the poverty and starvation going on....
You can't be serious.
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7 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:
Absolutely, however, I would counter with the fact that this is a horrendous disease for some, regardless of age. Yes, the majority of 30-somethings will be largely unaffected by it, but you have to realize if you throw caution to the wind, and a close member of your family contracts it and has serious complications resulting in death, you'll have to live forever with the knowledge that you caused them to die alone.
What you are describing is utilitarianism, and historically it has been used to justify some of the most abhorrent events in human history, anything can be justified for "the greter good", I hardly think it is a justifiable philosophical hill to die upon.
I haven't heard anyone advocating throwing caution to the wind. Even Sweden is taking steps to protect and isolate the most vulnerable in their society, the elderly, restricting gatherings of large crowds, and asking their population to be "adult" and not throw caution to the wind. What they're not doing is over-reacting by buying into the media-hype and stripping their citizens of their rights, willingly destroying their economy, bankrupting their businesses, putting troops in the streets, restricting travel, and creating mass unemployment, poverty, and starvation by locking down the whole population for an extended period of time.
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The decision to sacrifice human lives is made every day. For example, when a vehicle safety proposal that will save lives is brought to General Motors and they consider it's implementation a decision is made weighing human lives on one hand and cost on the other. Yes all vehicles could be made like Sherman tanks and human lives would be saved, however the decision is made to not implement these safety features in the name of profits, convenience, and economic viability.
Covid-19
in General Discussion
Posted
Sorry. I thought ARF was talking population. My bad.