pw13
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Posts posted by pw13
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20 hours ago, bluto said:
Going to be a lot of 6-game fookery happening to allow us to hit our cap numbers. Guys like Muamba and Bladek are still floating around.
Muamba and Bladek have already served two stints on the six and are now starting their third. It's likely neither plays this year, IMO. That's a lot of money saved against the cap. Harris is now starting on the six as well, so a third of his salary will be saved. They'll be able to use these savings to give one-game rests to key players down the stretch (starting with Ouellette today), and it's possible they'll use some (maybe already have) to re-sign some key guys with up-front bonus money. Smart cap management.
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17 hours ago, Booch said:
he was 100 percent ticked...offended...figured he didn't have to prove he was healthy and in shape, but could still ask for a high salary and to not be a back-up.....ironically....he took a back up role in T.O so the ego still was hit, but T.O paid him starter money for what he was doing there....and based on his play this yr....he should have really hung em up after 2022....Selfish taking reps from some young guys on roster
He was Toronto's starting RB at the beginning of last season. It was his injury that pushed Ouellette into that spot.
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15 minutes ago, Booch said:
Yeah...hardly a loss there...they have a group of draftees tho that will need re-upping...and a couple 2nd yr guys now still on the cheap...they not gonna be the same squad next yr
There's no question the Argos have a bunch of NATs coming to the end of their three-year rookie deals: Brissett, Cassar, Giffen, Hoyte and Nield. They've all been mostly backups/STers although Brissett and Nield have started at times, and Giffen had a monster game early this year. All all of them can expect to be paid more next year. The Argos might not be able to keep all of them, but will keep the ones they absolutely need to keep. They already re-signed the most important 3rd-year NAT, Peter Nicastro. They won't be the same squad next year; no team is, obviously.
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16 minutes ago, Jesse said:
I'd argue those aren't really losses.
Muamba hasn't played this season, and likely won't. Harris has been effective in a small amount of playing time. The issue I was addressing was not their on-field performance but the Argos' ability to afford Kelly's contract when it kicks in next season. Those two guys probably account for about $250k; add in Bladek and that's over $400k in potential savings to be applied elsewhere.
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15 hours ago, ddanger said:
Argos may have trouble this year, but wait till 2024 when they pay their QB 600k. TSN was talking about vets being cut to enable the huge increase in his salary.
Argos will almost certainly lose Muamba to retirement, and will definitely lose Harris. Add in a couple of other older guys who might leave (such as Bladek) and the gap between what they are paying QBs this year and will pay them next year gets pretty slim. I don't see them having to cut anyone they really want to keep.
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20 hours ago, Pete Catan's Ghost said:
Among other reasons, Suitor and Black are terrible broadcasters for being unoriginal and repetitive. Air Canada (also used with Sasky receivers-Getzlaf & Fantuz), Speedy B, etc., are shite names because those two morons think they are clever when everyone can see that they aren't. Even Chris Cuthbert deserves a rap on the knuckles for referring to Milt as "Milt Stegall the Touchdown Beagle."
I think his actual quote, when Stegall set the record for career touchdowns, was "Milt Stegall -- touchdown regal." Which, while contrived, at least makes some sense since "regal" connotes royalty/king, etc.
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15 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:
Looks like we found the other Argo fan! PW13 and Bluto. Two more and they will double their season ticket holders
I'm glad to come to a forum with such original thinking.
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7 minutes ago, Geebrr said:
If Nichols is healthy he isn't sitting behind MBT
I would have agreed a year ago. But I saw enough in MBT last season to advocate that the Argos make signing him their top priority this off-season. I think he's going to surprise a lot of people who consider him just a run-of-the-mill backup type. But that's why they play the games.
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1 hour ago, J5V said:
MBT is not going to be happy being Nichol's short-yardage QB. Nichols has CFL experience, and little else, on MBT.
Nichols doesn't have Andrew Harris and/or our O-line any more. He can't run the ball himself, isn't fast enough or nimble enough to evade pressure, and doesn't have the arm to put the ball into tight spots consistently.
Pinball isn't going to be happy paying Nichol's 350K/yr for 3 years to throw the ball away and/or turtle.
I'm both an Argo fan and a fan of MBT. I believe he is going to end up as the No. 1 QB for Argos, despite being guaranteed about $133k less than Nichols (if reports are accurate). If I'm right, and with O'Connor developing nicely, 2020 might be Nichols' only year in Toronto. But I'm happy to have him for now as it's clear you need two viable QBs in this league. Argos had just one the past two years, and it wasn't the guy they handed the job to four times along the way (Franklin).
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Oddball stat: In addition to Flutie wearing 20 and 22, and Ron Lancaster wearing 23, there was at least one other QB to wear a number in the 20s in the modern era. Alvin White wore 26 for Toronto in 1978.
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I'm pretty sure they put him in 20 in the video because it is 2020. Bet he wears 16 with Toronto.
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3 hours ago, Brandon said:
In fairness... MBT also put up a tonne of garbage time stats after his opponents were up by a large score and playing a soft defense.
DT says otherwise.
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Argos did not spend a ton on MBT -- reportedly $217k in hard money, with $90 k available in playing-time bonus. I'm betting they gave Nichols more, but not much more than $300k in hard money, plus PT incentives. So they likely are spending about $600k combined on the two QBs, which is not out of line with what most other teams spend and is less than some spend on one guy.
I'm also betting MBT wins the starting job, and Nichols is gone after one season. No offence to Nichols, I just think MBT is a better QB.
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21 hours ago, gcn11 said:
Trestman still has one year at over 600k left on his contract after this year. I am sure they use their one exemption for him but that leaves them no exemption left for Chamblin and Popp's salary. That's a ton of SMS used up. They aren't getting into a bidding war with anyone.
As I understand it, Trestman was fired before the SMS came into effect so his salary is irrelevant. Popp's contract expires next month so there's no impact from that on the SMS in 2020. Chamblin has two years left on his contract. MLSE has money to burn. I don't believe they will let SMS rules stand in the way of getting the coach they want, and I don't believe the league would try to enforce those rules over MLSE's objections. (That said, I don't see MOS leaving Wpg.)
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Does anyone know whether a third QB would be prevented from dressing next season if he were to be declared as a DI? I believe the plan is that teams will be able to dress 21 NATs, 20 INTs, 2 QBs and 2 Global players for a total of 45 (same as this year) and to have a 46-man roster with one inactive (same as this year). So why couldn't a third QB be dressed as one of the 20 INTs, provided that the team did not put two QBs in the game at the same time? That way the third guy could still do short-yardage plays, could hold for snaps and could play special teams (and be available at QB if the other two got hurt). If that is not permitted (and to be clear I expect it will be), some teams will have 3 QBs on the 46 and the third will be the inactive player, just as Toronto often had four on the 46 this year and then made the fourth guy the inactive player.
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Thanks again to everyone for helping me unravel the mystery. A longer version of the story is now online at https://www.cfl.ca/2019/09/19/long-read-chasing-grey-cup-folklore-form-beer-can/
This is a teaser for my book about the 1991 Argonauts, which will be published around July 1, 2021, to celebrate the 30th anniversary of that magical, electrifying season.
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21 hours ago, bigg jay said:
Thank you!
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Hi everyone. I'm bumping this thread to let y'all know that my quest to find the thrower of the beer can led me down some very interesting paths. Thanks to everyone here who responded with posts or direct messages. I hope to have more to say about this later in the week.
Although an airline that has cancelled a pile of flights this week because of "unscheduled aircraft maintenance" could still scupper my plans, I am hoping to attend the Argo-Bomber game this Friday -- my first game at IG Field. I was only at the old stadium once, for a game in 1982. Really looking forward to this game and seeing the stadium, which looks fantastic on TV! I'm also hoping to check out a few tailgates beforehand, so maybe I will meet some of you there.
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I'm just bumping this thread to catch anyone who didn't see it earlier. I'm pursuing a couple of promising leads but still looking for any and every bit of additional information and perspective I can find. If you have any ideas or memories about this fascinating episode in Grey Cup history, I would really love to hear from you, either through this forum or directly by email: paulwoods13(at)gmail.com. Thanks!
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If you haven't already seen it in today's Free Press, Doug Speirs has written about my search for the throwers:
https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/cfl/one-of-footballs-legendary-arms-sought-508495522.html (note: it's behind a paywall)
Hopefully this will lead to some clues . . .
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As for Dunigan, I can confirm that there was no doubt in his mind all week that he would play, despite how serious the injury was. But he did not practice or throw a pass until he got the shoulder shot full of painkillers in the hotel ballroom at dinner time on the Saturday, then tried some throws while Argo coaches and medical staff watched. He wrote about this in his book (written with the late, great Jim Taylor). His description to me of how the needles felt and how he felt during the game were pretty vivid and graphic, but I will save most of that for the book.
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2 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:
It would have been section S that you are identifying, the notorious student section, adjacent to the temp stands. Didn't see the angle of the throw, just noticed the can flying over my head from the vantage point. Did not mean to suggest it definitively came from the temp section. Odds are much better that it WAS from section S. BTW that sideline was the typical visitor's sideline. Toronto was the assigned home team for that game, but requested to wear their road whites for that game.
And as everyone remembers, the beer can was an OV tall boy!
Thanks! I originally thought it might be Section S, but then I got crossed up when I looked again at the seating map and compared it to the broadcast images.
So Calgary was on the visitor's sideline even though they were in their home reds? That makes sense as I've been told by an Argo that when they arrived at the stadium that week, some guys made a beeline for the lockers of the Bombers they hated most, like Wild West and Ty Jones. So that would mean Argos used the home locker room and the home sideline (assuming the locker rooms were on both sides of the stadiums.)
I always thought it was a Coors or Coors light. The video is so grainy that it's hard to tell. Was OV the most popular beer in the stadium back then?
Sorry to be asking so many questions and looking for so many details but I want to nail every aspect of this story down tight if possible. Little details like the brand of beer can help make the story come to life for readers. I really do appreciate all the comments, and hope the discussion continues!
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Further to my earlier query, I'm trying to figure out the specific section from which the first (most infamous) can was hurled. The Rocket ran up the sideline that was inhabited by the Stampeders, which I'm guessing would have been the Bombers' sideline normally? The first can seems to have come from the last section of permanent seating on that side (although that is at odds with TrueBlue4ever's memory that it came out the temporary seating). It looks clear to me in the CBC coverage that the second can did come from the temp stands. Based on a map I found of Canad Inns Stadium, it looks as if the goal-line Ismail crossed (near where the can landed) was in front of Section A. Can any longtime fans familiar with the old stadium or at the 1991 Grey Cup shed any more light on any of this?
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17 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:
You may find about 20 different people who claim to be the person who chucked the beer can on this site. I was sitting in the temporary stands about 15 rows up in the northeast corner (where the old "Rum Hut" would later be situated) and saw Ismail run back the kick right in front of me. Did not see the beer can until it whizzed over my head and on to the field. Can't say where it came from in that section, but it was a ways up in the stands.
Two memories of John Candy, both from a game earlier in the year in Winnipeg. The Argos sideline was more than just players and coaches - there was a real entourage of management and hangers-on down on the sidelines it felt like every game. Add that to the money being thrown about by McNall on the players, and a bit of arrogance from the players, and I can say that the Argos were NOT the crowd favorite on Grey Cup Sunday. They refused to be introduced individually and asked to be introduced as a team for the starting line-ups, which I suppose is OK to represent that no one player matters, and yet they each walked out (slowly, I might add) individually in single file with their helmets off and raised above their heads (akin to a wrestler entering the ring - I could all but hear the intro music playing for them) rather than a group run on to the field. Anyway, back to Candy. He was the antithesis of this attitude. Very fun loving guy who wanted to be on the sidelines not to be part of the spectacle but because he was such a true fan, living out his fantasy, without a shred of false humility. In the regular season game in October, when he came out, the Bombers' PA announcer noted that Candy had donated $20,000 to the local Winnipeg Firefighter's toy drive (I later discovered Candy tried to keep this anonymous, and it was the firefighters who tipped off the Bombers, who chose to announce it). Candy was standing on the east sidelines, and rather than the usual booing and catcalls that would emanate from those stands to opposing players, Candy was hailed with shouts of "Hey, it's Uncle Buck!", "Gil Fisher:, and :Schmengie brothers forever!" The in-house DJ then played a video clip from "Home Alone" where Candy introduces his polka band and starts playing the clarinet in the rental van. Fans ate It up and were dancing in the stands. Candy was laughing his head off and waving at all the Bomber fans, clearly surprised, overjoyed and yet humbled by the adoration. I have never witnessed that kind of affection from Bomber fans to any visiting opponent. Some have said the day he died, a bit of the Argos died too, never to recover completely.
One last random memory of Grey Cup '91, that was the year the Stampeders re-claimed the tradition of riding a horse into the lobby of a hotel. First done in 1948 at the Royal York in Toronto, the horse had not made another attempt until Winnipeg in 1991, but that year it made its triumphant return and strode into the lobby of the Fort Garry hotel, and has been doing so (or attempting to) at every Calgary Grey Cup since.
Hope you enjoy your time in Winnipeg this summer, and since you made sure to mention how cold it was during Grey Cup week, hopefully you will mention how warm it gets in the summer in Winnipeg and dispel the myth that we are an igloo year-round.
Thank you for this -- very interesting and helpful.
Bye Week Thread: Complacency, Budget & Leadership,
in Blue Bomber Discussion
Posted
The fact that some salaries won't count against the cap is precisely why the savings CAN be applied elsewhere. If Muamba is getting paid $150k, and none of it is on the cap, the $150k can be spent elsewhere within the cap.
Bladek has already been replaced by Nicastro, who has a contract for next season and beyond, with Giffen (who will need to be re-signed) and other young o-linemen coming up behind.
Yes, the Argos -- like every team, every year -- will have choices to make. But they seem fairly adept at cap management, and I don't expect them to fall to pieces anymore than the Bombers did when Collaros got a big salary boost, Their QB expense in 2024 will be much higher than it was in 2023, but not massively higher than it was in 2022.