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There's a Schoen interview in the Sun today which would be a little strange if he is injured again. Usually injured guys don't talk to the media. Obviously he isn't 100%, we all saw him pull up at the end of the game, but seems like he is "ok" to me. https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/cfl/winnipeg-bluebombers/blue-bombers-dalton-schoen-thrown-right-back-into-labour-day-fire?itm_source=index

Thing is, both those teams fell backwards into MOP level QBs. Like we did late in 19. But who would be available for that type of swing going forward? Zach was hit double-digit times in the LDC, which is the worst case for any QB. How much longer can he hold up under that kind of barrage? Even at that, his arm is just barely enough to get by on deep balls now. We have no margin for error with him now, and no foreseable escape plan at QB. Yep, I think both came as a forced evolution due to the fact that neither line is capable of bully ball. Hall used to be able to get pressure with 4 guys. it took a while to get the guys able to fit that need, and people hated his soft saggy coverage. But when we had enough guys to rotate through and get pressure with 5 or less his D flourished. On O, we went from a team that could run on any one, to a team that could run on most teams, to now a team that can only run on weak run Ds. I don't think full scale blows ups and lengthy rebuilds work out very well in the CFL. But in order to turn it around you 1, have to be willing to spend top dollars on other teams FAs, and 2, find your self with a QB who can win and has enough tread on the tires to play your window of compeitition. I don't think we have either of those factors right now. 100%. And Walters has shown a reluctance to put on his big boy pants with mos.

I might have said this before, but basically in 2019ish guys like Thomas and Kramdi were depth pieces, now they're starters... canadian talent fell and I don't really see their plan to improve it. Sure Wallace is an up and comer, but neufeld is on his last legs, Kolankowski never had any legs to start with... Eli been her a while and never gets to start... Brady and demski sure they're great, but demski is not young, clercius good young... but we're looking at a couple nice young pieces, a few older guys and then a lot of meh.... since apparently the linebackers we drafted are just special teamers...

Or just demote him...or to save face...as we know Osh won't admit he screwed up...another flaw...just promote Jackson and have them both as co-offensive coordinators The expectation that Hogan wouldn't struggle and look way out of his element with zero real relevant experience was a fools game from the start We dragged our feet way to long announcing a hire...Osh said we in no hurry and its all good...pretty much into free agency...prob a good reason why we maybe didnt land one of those top WR that were Free agents...they wanna know who they gonna be playing for...or the guy we promoted got a big ol no thanks from them...as players aren't stupid either

I would be good if they just fired Hogan first - just to show some spirit. Hogan's play calling (if not design) leaves much to be appreciated... maybe he will improve... unlikely...

That management and coach shifted how they do it...the smugness here hasn't and from anything he says...and how he acts...Likely won't First step in change is almost always the HC...that's where u start...past history...good or bad be damned...means nothing looking forward

O'Shea has repeatedly demonstrated that he is rigid in his thinking and thus resistant to change or criticism. His personality is such that, if pressured, he will double down.

Roster turn over only by injury..(don't ban me again @Mark H. as injury is only way we change) or by defection...not from a guy out playing or showing more potential. Many instances of guys out playing vets in preseason...yet never or rarely get kept..or if do don't get a shot and rot on PR Don't have to replace every one at once but 1 or 2 a yr...and your roster fluidity thrives and your depth/backups become actually capable...be it a new face or a vet pushed to backup roll...we fail miserably at that here due to Osh way of rostering and penchant for valuing any vet regardless of skill..its very apparent @wbbfan hit nail on head with his post. Walters needs to step up and be the boss and if he gets resistance by his coach then needs to rectify it And if he can't perform that task the Prez who technically is the owner here needs to make some decisions And as u said here @17to85..standing pat...resting on your laurels and living with your past success thinking it will manifest again...pretty much pushing 6..7 yrs now is just asking to fail...just as your roster has to evolve and change...your way of doing things...how you coach and scheme needs to as well...especially 12 yrs into it...

Interesting discussion. I agree that the HC has significant impact in what type of players/who the GM drafts and signs. The GM is not going to sign someone the HC will not play - does not make economic sense. I agree we have spent significant time living in 2019-2022 - and staying consistent with our approach. We should all acknowledge (and hopefully the powers that be) - that i) we have been unlucky/unwise with the free agent signings, ii) we have held on to some players far past their best before dates, iii) have had some significant injury woes, iv) seemingly utilized poor roster management, and v) made a questionable choice on OC. I don't think that the Bombers are at the 'fire everyone' stage, even though as fans we are frustrated, with that frustration stemming from a 'stay the course' attitude - instead of innovating, stagnating. We see from the outside looking in - that the organization seems to be unwilling to evolve. Miller/Walters/Osh would be better off to become a bit flexible, be willing to accept a bit of change. I have been pretty frustrated - but I don't want to go back to the Reinbold years, and almost 30 years without a cup. The understand we are going to lose - but we should not lose due to effort, planning or leadership. If Miller/Walters/Osh make strides to better decision making - I will be happy - even if we don't make the playoffs. You can't expect some of the older players to play like all-stars all the time, but one should expect that you have someone rostered who can spell them off - so they are fresh. Apologies for the rant!

And this is a big reason why I don't think we necessarily need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If the Stamps can turn it around with the same management then so can we.

IMO, there have been 2 major shifts in philosophy: On D, less focus on pressure and more coverage. Richie Hall brought far more pressure, even though he usually had a better secondary than they have now. On O, more downfield passing and less bully bull On STs, interestingly enough, they gone back to more the aggressive style of play we used to see.

You do not have to go far to see CFL examples in the CFL of rapid turnarounds. Calgary, the Riders and TiCats to be exact, and Dickinson rebuilt his team while filling the roles of GM and head coach and spoon-feeding his brother, Why can't we have nice things any more?

Keep in mind the riders front 7 is good, but their secondary is the drizzling shits, so yeah Brady was never going to go off in the run game here. Teams know that you beat the Bombers by limiting the run game.

Honestly too much time was spent living in their glory days of 2019, 2021 etc. Losing by 1 in 2022 with collaros on a bum ankle was the worst outcome. Delayed changes, and the making 2 more cup games just reinforced the idea their core was still good enough. Too little change post 2022 is the problem IMO. Yes I know there has been a lot of roster turnover... but I think a change in philosophy was warranted because steady as she goes isn't working anymore.

#IYKYK

Walters also noted that it has become increasingly difficult to get guys to come north because of the new spring leagues, and changes to the NFL roster rules. It's just a lot tougher finding US talent. Having said that, other teams are finding players so we need to do that too.

I think that is a symptom of the greater problem. I'm a big fan of both those guys, but in general, since the 19 GC win, we've been losing more than we have brought in. That is across the board and from the roster up to management. From Kongbo, Hansen, Alford, Desjarlais, Stove, Lawler (twice), etc, over to Ryan, Ted, Cyril, Bourgoins, and more. We have hemorrhaged talent in all areas and brought in very little to replace the losses. Championship teams always go through that. But where prior to 19, we played an active role in FA trying to improve, we became complacent and expected that retaining as many of our pieces and developing guys internally would keep us at the top of the league. Problem is, many of our best moves in the mafia era are free agent scores from other teams. Combine that with the fact that our coach wants to ride the old guard into the dust, no matter who is backing them up and what they are capable of, and you have a massive collapse of what should've been the greatest dynasty in league history. The problem is Mos, but it is also Walters. And it's also Wade for not prevent the other 2 from messing up so badly. They need to skip blame (which they would't consider any way) and go right into root cause and repair. Whose replacement makes you better off, today and in the future? Who is easier to replace, and can either be recovered to be top tier in their jobs here again? But I don't think anyone involved is willing to have that conversation yet. It might not even end up being one; it might be Wade getting called into a BOG meeting and getting the choice of who goes. As others have pointed out, the Ham game after the BJB will be a big game for us. 3-5 in our last 8 games. if we win 1 of the next 2, bc/edmonton likely passes us for the last play off spot in the west / the cross over. After that, we had Ham, Ssk, and Mtl, which will all be tough win,s plus ott in ot,t which is always hard for us. The 1 remaining game, vs edm on the road, might not be a freebie either. With 7 games left, 4 wins likely gaurentees the play offs. 3 wins, if we beat edmonton likely puts us in. But in that case, we need toronto to strugle down the stretch.

I've been to MANY games at McMahon over the last 18 years (...sigh...) and Mark's take here is super funny. They do have a lot of tailgating in their parking lot and area around the stadium (some people just stay in their tailgate and listen to the radio... Don't even go in to the games) but there is just nothing in the league that compares to a) what Wade has developed in the stadium tailgate area, and b) What the fans have set up all over th land near the stadium. I think a lot of people don't even realize how much tailgating goes on because it's not directly on the same property as the stadium....

people blame the lack of Brady carries on playcalling -- but in an RPO scheme the QB has the option to pull the ball and throw it. Zach gets a vote too on how Brady's used, and given that Brady had beaten the Als pretty much singlehandedly the week before, the Saskatchewan DEs were opting to crash down on the run more often than not. Zach put up some beaucoup yards and three TDs with his arm -- we almost beat them without our best player being much of a factor. Sucks to lose, but we showed we had a passing attack even with our ragtag receiving corps and leaky pass protection, which is way more that what I expected.

Pokey's return will likely mean the team gets a bit better but I doubt that it will prevent the Blue from flirting with a .500 record, staggering into the playoffs and getting soundly trounced in the first round, I fear this will somehow justify keeping the same cast of characters for yet another year of futility.

yeah and he still relying on those same guys for a lot of parts of roster Also coaches need to change thier philosophy and how they go about things too...their process a it doesnt work forever...evolve and adapt or die...and he hasn't whatsoever He was also supplied with players in their prime and best at their posotion...so success should have been the result....they are now not in may instances Historically the trends for sports is after teams start to struggle and fail that a HC change occurs about 80% of the time first...as they are most responsible for game performance...good....and bad.... It's almost always the first move as a G.M switch is more prone for bigger organizational shifting...or change...and most times unless it's real incompetence, there is no evidence right now for that....also a HC firing, or moving on from one is gonna show the team is looking for accountability before blowing everything up...and totally disemboweling your front office...thats just how she goes Coach goes first, and if things continue down same path...or worse...G.M gets chopped If we fail again this yr it's not far fetched to move on from the coach....it's a what have you done business after all....and we failed 3 straight seasons...and the 4th isnt looking super rosey either doubt it...neither of the teams they went to are ripping the league a new arse like were in our prime We brought in a good crew of guys to replace them...and Penn....That excuse is just that...an excuse with no validity to it

I'm assuming a large issue is the loss of Rigmaiden and Goveia?

Then it works both ways: The 2018 - 2022 was also team that the HC wanted.

You mean more involved than 5 carries? Thats crazy talk.

The answer is he's not.