Around The NHL 2016/2017

[Atomic]

10 hours ago, JCon said:

You're not losing anything. When I trade money for a product, I'm not losing money. 

Protect Perreault and let Lowry get taken? That would be crazy. What a waste of an asset. That's just losing. 

OK let's use your analogy.  You're going to lose 50 dollars tomorrow.  Does spending 50 dollars on a 50 dollar product today prevent you from losing 50 dollars tomorrow?  No, it doesn't.

Who said Lowry is getting taken?  Besides, Lowry is UFA-eligible in 3 years, Perreault in 5.  Perreault can play top-6, Lowry will never be a top-6 player.  How is losing Lowry a waste of an asset but losing Perreault is not?

Edited February 24, 2017 by Atomic

[JCon]

4 minutes ago, Atomic said:

That would depend on the product.  

4 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Who said Lowry is getting taken?  Besides, Lowry is UFA-eligible in 3 years, Perreault in 5.  Perreault can play top-6, Lowry will never be a top-6 player.  How is losing Lowry a waste of an asset but losing Perreault is not?

I think losing Perreault or Lowry in the expansion draft would be a huge waste of an asset, which is why I would prefer to move one of them before that and get something in return. Even a third pairing defenseman would be an improvement.

I would prefer to move Perreault and keep Lowry because I believe you could get more for Perreault. I also see Lowry as an ideal 3rd/4th line centre for this team. He can also play wing.

If you could get the same return for Lowry, I would consider it.

Edited February 24, 2017 by JCon

[Jimmy Pop]

FWs with more current value to Jets than Perreault:

- Scheifele

- Laine

- Ehlers

- Little

- Wheeler

- Lowry

- Petan? Copp? Connor?

At best Perreault is our 6/7th most valuable FW. Some would flip him with Lowry I'm sure, but I think our roster needs the big bodied, checking 24 year old over a 30 yr old point producer with some injury history.  

If there was a deal out there for a D, Jets would have to seriously look at it. Maybe that's a 22/23 yr old who's being primed in the A, maybe it's a 25 yr old who's a 2nd/3rd pair guy working his way up. Something. Anything. Consider it.

One of 1290's guests yesterday was talking about our "core" and players to build around. He correctly said, IMO, that player is Scheifele. Build everything you can around him. So, the players around that 23 yrs mark right now are the players we're after. Vets are great, too. That's why we have Wheeler, Buff and I'm sure Little once he re-signs. Our biggest problem is our D just isn't good enough, not a lack of experienced players.

OBVIOUSLY jumping the gun big time, but breaking training camp next year I could see something like.

Ehlers - Scheif - Laine

Armia - Little - Wheeler

Connor - Roslovic - Petan

Copp - Lowry - Dano

I think we have the pieces already in house to replace Perreault. And while I certainly don't know other team's rosters & depth players nearly as well as ours, I have to think some team out there has a D that is being underutilized & potentially be had for a Perrreault (or other) and/or picks, prospects.

 

[Rich]

1 minute ago, Jimmy Pop said:

 

I think we have the pieces already in house to replace Perreault. And while I certainly don't know other team's rosters & depth players nearly as well as ours, I have to think some team out there has a D that is being underutilized & potentially be had for a Perrreault (or other) and/or picks, prospects.

There is a league wide problem in the depth of defencemen out there and it will only get worse with Las Vegas coming aboard.  D-men are at a premium, and you only have to look at what Edmonton had to pay to get Adam Larsson.

No one really has or wants to give up their defensive depth, and you will typically have to overpay to get it.

[Jimmy Pop]

2 minutes ago, Rich said:

There is a league wide problem in the depth of defencemen out there and it will only get worse with Las Vegas coming aboard.  D-men are at a premium, and you only have to look at what Edmonton had to pay to get Adam Larsson.

No one really has or wants to give up their defensive depth, and you will typically have to overpay to get it.

Agree, completely.  And I'm for it, even at an overpay.

Personally, I'd rather spend time consumed with over analyzing a trade Chevy's made than go in to next year with Chairot, Postma, Stuart, Melchiori and that ilk of talent on the back end. 

Brian Strait was not an answer, not even close. That kind of approach doesn't work this offseason. 

[JCon]

The trick is not adding a d that will get plucked in the expansion draft.

[Rich]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy Pop said:

Agree, completely.  And I'm for it, even at an overpay.

Personally, I'd rather spend time consumed with over analyzing a trade Chevy's made than go in to next year with Chairot, Postma, Stuart, Melchiori and that ilk of talent on the back end. 

Brian Strait was not an answer, not even close. That kind of approach doesn't work this offseason. 

I think Myers is the big question mark. If your top 5 is Myers, Buff,  Trouba, Morrissey, Enstrom ...  you probably aren't trading an expensive piece for the 6, 7, 8 spots or you are bringing in a prospect like Poolman. 

If you aren't happy with those as your top 5 then you have to be looking to trade one of them to keep the money you spend on the backend reasonable. 

[Atomic]

What people have to realize is that the Vegas team only needs 6 or 7 NHL defencemen and they will be reluctant to take more than 3 or 4 on longer term, bigger money contracts.  So that's 3 or 4 out of 30 teams.  When you think about it like that, it's not such a slam dunk that Myers would get taken.  Remember he will be coming off a season in which he barely played.

[Atomic]

29 minutes ago, Jimmy Pop said:

Brian Strait was not an answer, not even close. That kind of approach doesn't work this offseason. 

I'd be shocked if Brian Strait was even in Chevy's top 5 targets for a left handed D last offseason.  The fact of the matter is getting guys to come to Winnipeg is not easy so we're either going to overpay or get our #6 or #7 target.  It's the sad reality that most guys aren't going to come to Winnipeg unless it's their last and only option.

[JCon]

5 minutes ago, Atomic said:

What people have to realize is that the Vegas team only needs 6 or 7 NHL defencemen and they will be reluctant to take more than 3 or 4 on longer term, bigger money contracts.  So that's 3 or 4 out of 30 teams.  When you think about it like that, it's not such a slam dunk that Myers would get taken.  Remember he will be coming off a season in which he barely played.

Vegas has to take at least nine d, no less.  

(Also, 14 forwards and three goalies)

[The Unknown Poster]

Look what the Pens gave for a 36 year old D man - 2nd round pick and a player.

Perreault is more valuable now then many players listed above.  Losing him today hurts the Jets today and tomorrow.  Surely the Jets want and hope Connor takes his top six spot but will that be next season?  The season after?  We dont know what we have in Roslovic.  Perhaps they see Roslovic as the replacement for Little.  But again, he's not there yet. 

Without regard to the expansion draft, I'd keep Perreault, which was clearly the Jets' intent when they resigned him for 4 years.  Since there is an expansion draft, who do you protect after Scheif, Little, Wheeler?  Probably Lowry because if Lowry, Copp, Dano, Armia and Perreault are exposed, Lowry is likely Vegas' target.    Of Copp, Dano, Armia & Perreault (assuming Lowry is protected), I dont know who Vegas would take.  Copp, Damo & Armia are all young with upside.  But Perreault helps them more now and has 4 years left.  I'd guess they pick Copp.

[Atomic]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

Vegas has to take at least nine d, no less.  

(Also, 14 forwards and three goalies)

Right but they won't want to take 9 guys on big one-way deals.  They will take some guys who are young and on 2-ways if they can.  Or they will take a guy or two with expiring contracts.  You think I don't know the rules?  I'm disappointed, JCon.  I have run through the entire draft simulator team-by-team.

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, Atomic said:

Right but they won't want to take 9 guys on big one-way deals.  They will take some guys who are young and on 2-ways if they can.  Or they will take a guy or two with expiring contracts.  You think I don't know the rules?  I'm disappointed, JCon.  I have run through the entire draft simulator team-by-team.

Who do you anticipate the jets losing?  Who do you see Vegas' big forward/D/Goalie being?

[JCon]

1 minute ago, Atomic said:

Right but they won't want to take 9 guys on big one-way deals.  They will take some guys who are young and on 2-ways if they can.  Or they will take a guy or two with expiring contracts.  You think I don't know the rules?  I'm disappointed, JCon.  I have run through the entire draft simulator team-by-team.

I've failed you and, for that, I'm sorry.

It's hard to know exactly what their strategy will be. They have to get to the salary floor of $54 Million and they will be a player in FA. But how excited are players going to be to sign there? I guess that depends on who they draft and who their coach is.

[Atomic]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Who do you anticipate the jets losing?  Who do you see Vegas' big forward/D/Goalie being?

It's so hard to tell right now with the trade deadline still impending.  Their top goalie could be a guy like Semyon Varlamov or Philip Grubauer.  Matt Murray is an interesting case.  Fleury is on a NMC so if Murray is available how could Vegas not take him?  Top forwards could be Derek Brassard and Mats Zuccarello.  Defence... **** I can't remember who I had in their top pairing, CapFriendly scerwed up and didn't let me save and I wasn't running through it again.  Lots of second pairing type guys might be available like Jason Demers.

Jets, it depends on who they want to protect.  If they protect 4 D, then it's Lowry or Perreault for sure, unless they get horny for Armia, which is possible..  If they protect 3 D then it's Myers or Copp.

[JCon]

There are a lot of potentially great goalies available to Vegas. Including those noted above and Raanta.

 

Penguins should be safe. Fleury has to provide 18 teams that they can trade him to. They could trade him for a 7th round pick, if they choose, just to protect Murray. You only need one team to play ball who thinks Fleury is an upgrade over what they currently have.

[Atomic]

Just now, JCon said:

There are a lot of potentially great goalies available to Vegas. Including those noted above and Raanta.

 

Penguins should be safe. Fleury has to provide 18 teams that they can trade him to. They could trade him for a 7th round pick, if they choose, just to protect Murray. You only need one team to play ball who thinks Fleury is an upgrade over what they currently have.

OK, I wasn't sure about Fleury's contract and how his NMC worked.  It seemed really unlikely that the Pens would give up Murray.  I think Philip Grubauer is a great fit for Vegas for a lot of reasons.... very good numbers, young, cheap contract.  There will be some vets like Montoya who could be a good fit too.

[The Unknown Poster]

Is there a trade freeze prior to expansion or could the Pens, for example, trade Fluery the day before the expansion draft?

I think Pens will keep Fleury past the trade deadline and try to win the cup again.  And then trade him in the off-season, prior to the draft if they can.

[The Unknown Poster]

have to think Jets do a deal here 

[JCon]

Just now, The Unknown Poster said:

have to think Jets do a deal here 

Oh, for sure. I bet Chevy is just trying to get maximum value.

[Jimmy Pop]

17 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Look what the Pens gave for a 36 year old D man - 2nd round pick and a player.

Perreault is more valuable now then many players listed above.  Losing him today hurts the Jets today and tomorrow.  Surely the Jets want and hope Connor takes his top six spot but will that be next season?  The season after?  We dont know what we have in Roslovic.  Perhaps they see Roslovic as the replacement for Little.  But again, he's not there yet. 

Without regard to the expansion draft, I'd keep Perreault, which was clearly the Jets' intent when they resigned him for 4 years.  Since there is an expansion draft, who do you protect after Scheif, Little, Wheeler?  Probably Lowry because if Lowry, Copp, Dano, Armia and Perreault are exposed, Lowry is likely Vegas' target.    Of Copp, Dano, Armia & Perreault (assuming Lowry is protected), I dont know who Vegas would take.  Copp, Damo & Armia are all young with upside.  But Perreault helps them more now and has 4 years left.  I'd guess they pick Copp.

Better player, sure?  More valuable, not in my opinion.

We're a playoff/contending team in 17/18 at the earliest, maybe even 18/19 - at which point 85 is 32 yrs old.

My rationale for saying a player is better while being less valuable (to us) is based on where the organization is at currently and how are "core" is shaping up down the road. I like Matty P, really do.  But frankly I don't think he's good enough to warrant a lock-downed roster spot for the duration of his deal.  This is why I'd consider trade options, and also why I wouldn't mind seeing him go to Vegas.  If neither comes to fruition, I'll hope and cheer like the rest of us that he bounces back next year and produces more. 

None of Petan, Copp, Dano or the AHL kids are better than Perreault today.  Who cares about today?  There's only a half dozen teams or so worse than us this year. I cared about "today" back in the fall when a playoff spot was still a coin flip not a 649 win.  What value he provides may be great, but he certainly isn't a game changer like our other top end FWs. 

And while I agree that the Jets clearly are big fans of his game- 4 year contract and all - let's remember he was a FA acquisition.  All the players I've been going on about were Jets draft picks or acquisitions via trade - for whatever that's worth.

[Jimmy Pop]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

have to think Jets do a deal here 

For a player like Drew, expiring deal to boot, I don't think there's anything to debate here 

[The Unknown Poster]

Well the debate would come if the Jets felt they could make the playoffs and keep him.  Losing him for nothing could be acceptable if you look at it like gaining a rental for nothing.  But since the Jets wont make the playoffs and either way, Stafford isnt a major contributing part of that, let him go.  if other teams think he can help, make that deal all day long before they come to their senses.

Regarding Perreault, unless he gets hurt or his skills rapidly diminish, I see no reason to move him now.  His value might decrease in Winnipeg as our young talent improves and pushes for his spot but at the same time, he'd still have value to another team.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

3 hours ago, Atomic said:

OK let's use your analogy.  You're going to lose 50 dollars tomorrow.  Does spending 50 dollars on a 50 dollar product today prevent you from losing 50 dollars tomorrow?  No, it doesn't.

Who said Lowry is getting taken?  Besides, Lowry is UFA-eligible in 3 years, Perreault in 5.  Perreault can play top-6, Lowry will never be a top-6 player.  How is losing Lowry a waste of an asset but losing Perreault is not?

Anyone can play top 6 on this team and play really bad and get near 20 goals. Ex. Stafford

12 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

have to think Jets do a deal here 

Kinda feel bad, it's me punkin Chevy.

11 minutes ago, JCon said:

Oh, for sure. I bet Chevy is just trying to get maximum value.

What would you do for a Klondike bar?

[Floyd]

Lots of talk about Perrault... but how many teams trade for a 2nd/3rd line forward with 4 years at 4 million?

Totally agree with Atomic - Myers contract versus health means Vegas will likely not take him - there are a lot of good expensive D in this expandsion draft

Can't believe there's ANY calls about Stafford....!!!!