Chevy

[iso_55]

Ryan Miller. His career looked finished in Buffalo. Lo & behold he goes to St. Louis & he is a different goalie. Then there's Jean-Sebatien Giguerre who didn't look like he'd have any kind of long term career with the Flames back 12-14 years ago. Then he left Calgary & went on to bigger things elsewhere & has enjoyed a long & successful career in the NHL. So, you have no way of knowing how Reimer would play in a Jets uniform, Jacquie. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Montoya is mlre technically sound than Pavs. He's also very experienced and a former first round draft pick. He's not as athletic as Pavs. That's why I question our goaltending coach. What are they doing to coach up Pavs?

I would also take a chance on Reimer. I've heard even the knucklehead Toronto media admit that Reimer was a scapegoat many nights for a bad leafs team. My worry would be how he handles pressure playing in his home province. But as an RFA with less than stellar stats he should come at a reasonable rate.

Does that mean Pavs for Reimer swap? I don't know about that. If Reimer faulters we'd be in tough. I'd like to have Reimer as the back up pushing Pavs. And if he's good and Pavs is bad then you dangle Pavs at the deadline to a team who wants an experienced back up. There's nothing wrong with having two decent goalies.

[Jacquie]

Ryan Miller. His career looked finished in Buffalo. Lo & behold he goes to St. Louis & he is a different goalie. Then there's Jean-Sebatien Giguerre who didn't look like he'd have any kind of long term career with the Flames back 12-14 years ago. Then he left Calgary & went on to bigger things elsewhere & has enjoyed a long & successful career in the NHL. So, you have no way of knowing how Reimer would play in a Jets uniform, Jacquie. 

 

And you have no way of knowing how he would play in a Jets uniform either. I disagree that Miller's career looked finished in Buffalo and considering what the Blues gave up for him and Ott, I don't think they thought he was finished either. He's a very good example of a goalie whose stats were affected by being on a bad team. And Giguerre played all of 25 games over 2 seasons for the Flames and in his first season with the Ducks he spent the first 3 months in the minors - completely different situation. BTW, both of the goalies you mentioned are scheduled to be UFAs.

[The Unknown Poster]

Miller would look fantastic in Winnipeg but I'm sure we are not on his preferred destination list.

[iso_55]

How is it different Jacquie? You're the one crowing that Reimer only played 36 games & showed he's not a starting goalie in your opinion. In Calgary, Giguerre barely played & the Flames got rid of him. Well, look at what happened when he went elsewhere. So, it's not different. It's the same thing. You sound so sure of yourself that Reimer isn't an NHL starting goalie yet you don't know.

[Jacquie]

No, I said Reimer has played in 140 NHL games - 36 is the most he has played in a season.

I've also said Reimer hasn't proven he can be a #1 goalie yet people are talking about him like he already is one.

[iso_55]

Because Reimer still can be. Pavlec has been a starter in Atlanta & Winnipeg. How much more can he improve & develop? We already know what his body of work is. Inconsistency is the main problem. Plays a great game or series of games & then it goes the other way. There are goalies in the NHL who carry their team on their backs & make them better. They keep their teams in it game after game. Year after year. Pavlec has never done that.

[Jacquie]

So Reimer can improve because he hasn't been a #1 goalie but Pavelec won't because he is. I disagree - Pavelec is the same age as Reimer and to suggest he won't or can't improve because he's played more is silly IMO. It's been suggested Leafs fans use Reimer as a scapegoat. Jets fans do the same thing to Pavelec IMO.

Name some goalies who carry their team over a season and are consistent game in game out.

As for Pavelec, I trust the opinion of Chevy and Maurice over what fans think.

[Nasty Nate]

Iso - the Jets go thru the same thing season after season. Pinning their hopes on inferior goal-tending and some really mediocre roster holes. 

 

What they do exceptionally well is explain the deficiencies and raise everyone's training camp hopes.

 

From what I've seen from early NHL playoffs the Jets aren't even on the same planet as most of these NHL teams. 

 

Its a good thing they didn't make it as they'd be embarrassed by whoever they played - if they somehow could have slithered into the #8 seed.

 

Wheeler is the only Jet who could have found a new gear.

 

Maybe Frolik, too. Kane theoretically has another gear but his scoring luck is rotten.

 

Trouba could use some playoff seasoning and we don't know how Mark Schiefele would grade out.

 

Ladd would play his usual unemotional game and find ways to wash off his backcheck.

 

The best thing for Pavelec though is to never be exposed to playoff intensity.

[The Unknown Poster]

I've been the biggest Pavs supporter of anyone and even I can admit he hasn't been good enough. 

[iso_55]

So Reimer can improve because he hasn't been a #1 goalie but Pavelec won't because he is. I disagree - Pavelec is the same age as Reimer and to suggest he won't or can't improve because he's played more is silly IMO. It's been suggested Leafs fans use Reimer as a scapegoat. Jets fans do the same thing to Pavelec IMO.

Name some goalies who carry their team over a season and are consistent game in game out.

As for Pavelec, I trust the opinion of Chevy and Maurice over what fans think.

Pavlec has way more experience than Reimer. He has potential to be a lot better while Pavlec has shown he may have plateaued even with more playing time. Goalies that can carry a team during the regular season & playoffs? Current & retired: Tuuka Rask, Mikka Kipprussoff, Carey Price, Patrick Roy, Billy Smith, Gerry Cheevers, Craig Anderson, Ken Dryden, Tony Esposito, Jacques Plante. Ed Giacomin, Henrik Lundqvist & Bernie Parent. To name a few. All these guys played great for a long time.  

[Jacquie]

So Reimer can improve because he hasn't been a #1 goalie but Pavelec won't because he is. I disagree - Pavelec is the same age as Reimer and to suggest he won't or can't improve because he's played more is silly IMO. It's been suggested Leafs fans use Reimer as a scapegoat. Jets fans do the same thing to Pavelec IMO.

Name some goalies who carry their team over a season and are consistent game in game out.

As for Pavelec, I trust the opinion of Chevy and Maurice over what fans think.

Pavlec has way more experience than Reimer. He has potential to be a lot better while Pavlec has shown he may have plateaued even with more playing time. Goalies that can carry a team during the regular season & playoffs? Current & retired: Tuuka Rask, Mikka Kipprussoff, Carey Price, Patrick Roy, Billy Smith, Gerry Cheevers, Craig Anderson, Ken Dryden, Tony Esposito, Jacques Plante. Ed Giacomin, Henrik Lundqvist & Bernie Parent. To name a few. All these guys played great for a long time.

First let's keep it to current goalies. The game was different, the equipment was bigger, etc for many of the retired players you've mentioned. And when it comes to the Original 6 era, the talent pool wasn't thinned out, etc. Rask has the benefit of playing on one of the best teams in the League - he's a solid goalie but he does not carry that team. Carey Price is a very good goalie who has almost been run out of Montreal by the fans a few times in the past and still has occasional stretches where he can't stop a beach ball (for example, about 2 or 3 weeks before the Olympics this season). Craig Anderson has never carried the Senators in the playoffs - the Senators have won one playoff series with Anderson in goal. I'll agree on Lundqvist.

[The Unknown Poster]

Nate - Ladd is the type of player a lot of teams would love to have in the Playoffs. 

[Nasty Nate]

I'm not a huge Ladd fan but I know enough about hockey that he's a quality 3rd line player that most needy playoff teams could use in a crunch. ie. Tampa & Detroit don't have guys like Ladd or enough guys like Ladd.

 

In Wpg he's certainly one of our Top 5 players but thats a team thats 6 to 10 pts off a clingon playoff spot.

 

Tampa could use his grit and Cooper wouldn't care less that Ladd's main kryptonite is he doesn't have an extra gear and tends to wash off his backcheck responsibilities way too early!

 

Detroit could use same as their system is breaking down with too many AHL Griffins on their squad. Even with Babcock's great coaching systems - they don't carry enough weight and grit on the ice. Ladd would help - although Babcock would go crazy when he sees Ladd washing off his backcheck time after time. Eventually, Ladd and Babcock would be at each others necks and Ladd would be gone. In Winnipeg Ladd is safe as he's been deemed an untouchable and guys like Chevy, Noel, Maurice can't bug him about his backchecking.

[The Unknown Poster]

I dont think anyone would argue that he's been asked to do more in Winnipeg.  But he *has* responded, scoring, what, 30 goals one year?  That's top line production.  But if the Jets were good enough that Ladd was the 3rd line LW or even 2nd line LW, then it would bode well for the team.  In fact, Ladd is basically the defacto 2nd line LW now as Kane-Scheif-Wheeler is the number one line.  Ladd-Little-Buff/Frolik is a good 2nd line, though a scenario where Ladd and Frolik are the 3rd line wingers who play special teams would be a very good development

[Nasty Nate]

If Ladd has to be subjugated to 3rd line in Winnipeg then its definitely time for him to go. Winnipeg really doesn't have anyone who can replace Ladd for 2nd line unless we choose to fantasize that Carl Klingburg or Lowery will turn into supermen overnite!

[The Unknown Poster]

If Ladd has to be subjugated to 3rd line in Winnipeg then its definitely time for him to go. Winnipeg really doesn't have anyone who can replace Ladd for 2nd line unless we choose to fantasize that Carl Klingburg or Lowery will turn into supermen overnite!

Exactly my point.  If the Jets develop to the point that ladd is on the 3rd line, it means we're doing something very right.  Klingberg and Lowry are potential 3rd line guys next season.

[Nasty Nate]

If Klingberg played a full 80 game season for the Jets I'd project him with 7 to 12 goals. Which is far better than guys like Wright, THorburn, Tangredi, Slater, etc. produced.

 

Lowry is unknown. He could score 10, he might get 15 or he could struggle in Maurice's doghouse when they tell him to learn to be a shut-down checker and he wants to be a scorer.

[The Unknown Poster]

One thing is for sure, the Jets are taking their time with their farm team kids.  And its likely to pay off.  O'dell looked like a fill-in at best but the more he got called up and sent back down, the more he improved every time.  He's got to be considered for an opportunity to make the Jets out of training camp in a bottom six role.  Lowry likely needs some time in that emergency call up role but there is reason for optimism with him as a potential 2nd line player.  Same with Klingberg and Telegin (if his head is on straight).  In fact, Telegin has all the tools to be a top six player except for desire seemingly.

 

Buff as a forward all season vastly improves this team.  And I wonder if they start him back on the 3rd line or swap him as Frolik.  Buff seemed better as a LW which seems to preclude a top six role (With Kane & Ladd entrenched).  I suppose 3rd line makes sense with the amount of minutes he plays on D with special teams.  A true hybrid player.

 

Kane-Scheif-Wheeler seems a lock at #1

Ladd-Little-Frolik could be #2 (though moving Frolik back to 3rd line if we find a better 2nd line RW would be ideal, especially with him playing plenty of PK)

Buff-???-???  Would like Frolik at the RW spot.  Im not opposed to Jokinen here at the right price who seemed to play well with Buff.  Its likelyt a scenario of re-signing Jokinen because you know what you're going to get and having increased depth (plus a guy who can fill in on the top lines in case of injury) versus using a youing guy who might start off lower on the depth chart with the potential to surpass Jokinen's skill set by mid-season (thinking O'Dell, Lowry, Burmi).

 

if Burmi's KHL contract allows a return, I'd pursue him heavily.  For depth a lone, he's an easy third line Centre/Wing who can play top six minutes, PK, PP etc.

 

Im very much looking forward to seeing Nik Petan make the team in a couple of years.  He could be anything from a bust (unlikely) to a top line Centre.

[Nasty Nate]

Petan will thrive if he's surrounded by a couple monsters with good hands. He'll bust if he's 3rd or 4th lined with a near-bust like Kane or fringers like Tangredi, O'Dell, Slater, Thorburn, Peluso, Wright, etc.

 

He deserves at least 1 full year of AHL grooming, learning some of the little tricks necessary to complete an NHL tool-kit. Something Kane didn't get and now the results are exposing him. 

[Rich]

Petan will thrive if he's surrounded by a couple monsters with good hands. He'll bust if he's 3rd or 4th lined with a near-bust like Kane or fringers like Tangredi, O'Dell, Slater, Thorburn, Peluso, Wright, etc.

 

He deserves at least 1 full year of AHL grooming, learning some of the little tricks necessary to complete an NHL tool-kit. Something Kane didn't get and now the results are exposing him. 

 

Unfortunately if he doesn't make the big club next year (and at his size, I can't see him making the Jets), he will have to go back to the WHL for one more year.   

 

It's too bad, because I think he needs to start playing against the next tier of opponents to see if he can handle the size of the professional game.  Doesn't have much left to prove in the WHL.

 

He is probably 2 - 3 years out before we see him as a regular on the Jets.

[Nasty Nate]

Didn't realize Slick Nic still had a year of junior eligibility left. I'm sure Chevy & Zinger saw what happened to Schiefele when he first debuted. He was pushed around the ice like a bully on a fawn. Schief grew up real fast - but he's 6'2" and 185, probably 195 next season.

 

Petan is barely 5'9"... lots of physical guys in WHL but its mostly sloggers and deadweights who Petan manages to avoid.

[Goalie]

Petan is one of the best players in the WHL, who cares if he's 5'9. mary st louis and a bunch of guys are smaller guys but they dont play like smaller guys. Neither does Petan, ive seen him play actually a few times and the guy is brendan gallagher, he is small but he has no issues going in to the corners, going to the front of the net, is a play maker for sure, put petan with kane and look out actually. I feel kane will be moved tho, and petan probably wont be up here for another year or 2 but if he develops, man he's gonna be a good one. If he was 6' plus tall, he would have probably been a top 20 or at worst top 25 pick cuz he is that good.

[Mike]

If Petan was 6 feet tall, he would've been a top 10 pick.

[The Unknown Poster]

Absolutely no doubt.  Every expert said if Petan had any size he's a top 10, if not top 5 pick.  He was the steal of the draft.  Winnipeg likely took him for two reasons: 1) they couldnt believe he was still available 2) the Jets are actually pretty big and strong so they can afford to take a chance on a small guy.

 

If he turns out to be another Marty St Louis, we're looking very good.

 

I also agree his talent has surpassed Junior but at his size and age he's unlikely to make the Jets, not to be a part time player anyway.  But crazier things have happened.  Maybe he shows incredible at training camp and ends up the 3rd line centre.  Have Buff and Frolik or Lowry ride shotgun and you can spare a smaller guy that can get them the pucks in front.  Worse case scenario, its never a bad thing to go back to Junior and dominate.

 

Thats what a lot of fans have to realise.  As good as much of our core is (Buff, Wheeler, Ladd, Kane, Little, Bogo, Enstrom), we lack depth.  In time, the "core" will be role players to an extent with guys like Scheif, Trouba, Petan and others putting us over the top.