17to85

all you're doing is pointing out that the team has been so bad that mediocrity is a huge step forward, I for one don't really care to aim for mediocrity. The bar should be set higher. Better than what we had shouldn't be anything to get excited for.

If the Oilers trade Yakupov then who plays wing on the 2nd line? Keeping in mind that secondary scoring was the Oilers biggest problem last season.... No the move the Oilers will make with the forwards is replacing Gagner with a different type of centre, but Gagner for Phaneuf doesn't work for the Leafs because they're looking for the same kind of centre the Oilers are and Gagner isn't it. The Leafs are pretty set on the wing as it. I suppose the Oilers could send prospect D for Phaneuf but again I doubt the Leafs want to trade a piece like that for futures. I guess they could build some type of package swapping someone like Petry for Phaneuf but the Oilers really don't have the depth required to make big moves. It only fills one hole by opening up another.

Obama has low approval ratings for the reasons I said. Doesn't matter who is in the office nothing changes. People were tired of Bush and the Republicans so they went for the Democrat and nothing changed. Nothing will change no matter who gets in next time. They're government is beholden to large corporations and lobby groups.

For a guy who decries the Calgary medias coverage of the Stamps regularly you sure do seem to think that only their opinion matters... seriously dude you're fighting a losing battle.

I take it to mean that the offense has been so putrid that even Bellefool can improve it.

Why is Kadri a dud Nate? You realize he just had a 50 point season right? That's not bad for a young player playing 2nd line minutes. I am no Leaf fan but the anti-toronto bias is just something else.

Hey I'm not saying he played great or anything, I'm just saying I don't see the need to just cut the guy prior to camp. The kid has some physical skills obviously what's the harm in seeing if he can figure out the new defence? Are we so deep we can just drop people like that?

O'Shea I think is going to be a hell of a coach... it's the coordinators I am sceptical of.

over rated doesn't mean useless though. The way Flames fans and media talked and then Leaf fans and media he was hyped up as a #1 guy, he's not that and I hate the player a lot but he is a legit top pairing player, I just wouldn't want him to be the best defenseman on my team.

That's because it IS giving up too much on Torontos part. Toronto would probably like to get a replacement D in return for Phaneuf so you're probably looking at Phaneuf for Bogosian + (yes Phaneuf is a better player than Bogosian right now) But Bogosian has that exciting Jets element called "potential". I'd go Bogo for DIon straight up so long as Toronto either buys him out of his current 7 mill. salary or eats at least 2.5 mill. a year. I'd also give the Leafs Redmond or a 4th or 5th round draft pick if Chevy could pull it off. of course you would, because that's a deal that still favours Winnipeg. Seriously Phaneuf has a lot of flaws to him but he is still a talent. Put him in a place where he's not expected to be the best guy and he can contribute a lot of things. Get him on a team with enough leadership that his idiocy isn't front and centre and he can contribute a lot. He is one of those guys who people started shitting on based on the hype he got and it just spiralled out of control to the point where so many people so badly under rate the guy.

I include you because you took it so personally that he was drafted 4th overall.

Well we hope we do. What harm is there in determining that after training camp? This team is not so stacked in NIs with experience to just cut guys willy nilly.

going to assume TSN has a hockey game to show

The point is some of you took the Etienne thing so personally that you wanted him run out of town but are perfectly happy to entertain the thought of bringing in another shitty receiver just because.

That's how it works here in dope-legal WA state. You can't blaze one anywhere you can't smoke a cigarette. And you can't smoke a cigarette pretty much anywhere in public. and that's how it should be, the smell of that **** is just so off putting I don't want people polluting the air with that anywhere near me.

Maybe its time to bring Ian Logan back? not the point, point is replace guys when you have a better option not before.

A team that is pretty loaded with wingers and weak at centre and D (especially if trading Phaneuf) forgive me if I doubt the accuracy of that. I suspect they would prefer to get a top 6 centre for the guy but I don't see the Jets having the depth there to make that move either.

Then what the hell was Bauman? This isn't a defence of Etienne this is simply saying if you look at high draft picks who didn't live up to the draft position Bauman is the poster boy. At least Etienne is young enough to have a chance at getting better. Bauman likely gets a job based on Ottawa increasing the need for NIs but his career will end in a year or two and he'll be nothing more than a footnote and cautionary tale about getting too excited about high draft picks.

I hate cutting veterans before training camp though, look how that played out when we did the same with Ian Logan. Give guys a chance, though I suspect Muamba wouldn't have fit here. Seems to me it's going to be a defence that is based on everyone making reads on the field and thinking and making good decisions was Muambas biggest problem.

given that they're loading up on dbs and cutting lbs to do it I am getting depressed... it's been like 12 years since the team has won in Calgary but if we're speculating correctly about the changes to the D the Stamps are just going to run all over the field on these guys and I'm going to have to endure another ass kicking in that stadium. I just want to see the damned team win for once when they make the trip to Alberta.

You realize that you're being stupid about this right? Ed Tait puts it in print that the rumours are there, that's one of the most respected and plugged in football reporters in the country hearing things about it why on earth are you still arguing this when you've been proven wrong? There is a time and a place to just accept that you were mistaken and move on you know.

That's because it IS giving up too much on Torontos part. Toronto would probably like to get a replacement D in return for Phaneuf so you're probably looking at Phaneuf for Bogosian + (yes Phaneuf is a better player than Bogosian right now)

Hard to care about American politics that much, ultimately the guy who winds up in the white house doesn't really matter since everyone in Washington is bought and paid for and if the lobby groups don't like something it doesn't get passed and if they want something passed it gets passed. Their system IMO is horribly broken.

wouldn't shock me actually. would depend on Burke's views on him. well Burke ******* raved about the guy when they signed him and in training camp and then in typical Burke fashion tossed him under the bus to try and absolve himself of the blame for that shitty shitty team he put on the field. What Burke thinks of a player matters very little to me at this point in time because he lost all credibility in that field last season.

The problem with Phaneuf is that he is a top pairing guy and is paid like it and the leafs will expect that kind of return for him. He is a flawed player but he does have talent. Leafs paid him too much but I don't see him being traded for a small price either.