Mike
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Posts posted by Mike
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Anything to get Burke out.
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For everyone who says there's nobody to replace Burke ...
I'd give the job to Walters for the rest of the year.
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Yes mike by Buck didn't suck. Post game show guys agree. He was under fire all night. At this point QB is going to have success or last very long on this team.
I was disappointed buck wasn't better but when you have four guys in your face all night what can you do.
Goltz looks worse. We really are starting from scratch. Two games hall gets hurt. This team is jinxed.
As soon as the first guy out of the tunnel to open IGF fell, we were done.
You have got to be kidding me.
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Lasted a lot longer than max hall
Just out of curiosity, didn't you tell us earlier in the week that if Buck sucked, you'd be off the bandwagon?
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With fatso probably out for the year, and Cornish out with a thigh injury, I like Toronto's chances.
Of course, I also thought BC would win easily yesterday...so...yep.
that's how i figure it...
hopping my train soon... Mark H, see you there... my mobile# is in your PM box
Somebody save this post as evidence if we never hear from Mark again.
I can already see the headlines ...
"Bomber fan beaten by entire Argonauts fanbase; one man arrested"
- rebusrankin and Mark H.
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Aaron Maybin, you mean.
I'm a huge Bengals fan, so I love it.
PS ... Maybin is on Winnipeg's negotiation list.
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In other news, Rene Stephan will actually dress for his second consecutive game without breaking several bones.
Congratulations Rene!
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Oh, and Pierce was already on the 46. He'll draw into the 42 but the guy coming on the roster for Gilmore is Harris.
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I don't know why, but I expected more changes than this.
Also worth pointing out ... Denmark at SB / Etienne at WR
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It really is just logic.
I'm not grabbing facts to fit into what I think happened, I'm letting the facts write the story for me and it's the only logical conclusion worth coming to when you stack ALL the information up.
FACT - A bidding war for Reilly = more money for Reilly
FACT - Reilly opted to not wait for a bidding war
WHY? He wanted to go to Edmonton
FACT - Buono let Edmonton talk to Reilly
WHY? He knew if they reached a deal with him, the return on his side would be greater
FACT - Buono negotiated with Winnipeg
FACT - Buono did not let Winnipeg talk to Reilly
WHY? He knew negotiating with more than one team would increase his return. He also knew if Winnipeg spoke to Reilly, they would no longer be interested in negotiating because Reilly appeared to have no interest in coming here.
It's not difficult to see that this was just a brilliant move by Buono, awful move by Hervey and an intelligent, yet unfortunate move by Mack.
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I always said it was never about what you had to give up for Mike Reilly. First rounder? A first and a third A second and a third? Meaningless.
It was always about whether you thought Mike Reilly could be your QB for the next 5-10 years. Because if so, he's worth all of the above and more.
But is it worth that just for the chance to talk to him? 'Cause there's no guarantees that he'd sign. It was JUST the rights to talk to him...
Can't argue with that. I guess you would need to make sure you've done your due dilegence (tampering) so that you knew he would be willing to sign with you.
Now, somebody is going to jump in and say no way he was signing here no matter what. Which I don't believe but I'm not going to argue anymore because it's been argued to death and it's hypothetical anyway.
Just out of curiosity ...
In your opinion, how much diligence is due? I mean, to me, it's an obvious red flag when Wally says "Edmonton is allowed to talk to him, but Winnipeg isn't"
Why isn't Winnipeg? The obvious answer to me is that Wally knew we wouldn't like what Reilly's agent had to say.
See I don't see it quite that way.
I think Edmonton said we want to trade for Reily and Wally said "ok but you can't talk to him" and Edmonton said, "Well then get stuffed" and then they negotiated and something got worked out.
I think Winnipeg said we want to trade for Reily and Wally said ok but you can't talk to him and Winnipeg said "We can't get Reilly which is ok because we can find someone better ourselves anyway."
It never made sense to me that Wally said Edmonton can talk to him and Winnipeg can't. And that Edmonton has to give us a 2nd and 3rd and Winnipeg has to give us a 1st and 3rd. I believe Wally opened negotiations with both teams at the same place and Winnipeg walked away and told everyone they couldn't get him and Edmonton kept at it and got him. For better or worse.
Okay.
Please explain why Wally would not let ANYBODY talk to him. All it could do is increase the return he could get in a trade.
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I always said it was never about what you had to give up for Mike Reilly. First rounder? A first and a third A second and a third? Meaningless.
It was always about whether you thought Mike Reilly could be your QB for the next 5-10 years. Because if so, he's worth all of the above and more.
But is it worth that just for the chance to talk to him? 'Cause there's no guarantees that he'd sign. It was JUST the rights to talk to him...
Can't argue with that. I guess you would need to make sure you've done your due dilegence (tampering) so that you knew he would be willing to sign with you.
Now, somebody is going to jump in and say no way he was signing here no matter what. Which I don't believe but I'm not going to argue anymore because it's been argued to death and it's hypothetical anyway.
Just out of curiosity ...
In your opinion, how much diligence is due? I mean, to me, it's an obvious red flag when Wally says "Edmonton is allowed to talk to him, but Winnipeg isn't"
Why isn't Winnipeg? The obvious answer to me is that Wally knew we wouldn't like what Reilly's agent had to say.
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Very good article by Wiecek.
I like what I see from Walters so far.
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Edmonton did not have a1st rounder to trade.
BC got an offer from Edmonton for an asset they were going to lose.
BC simply tried to get more for Reilly through Wpg. (swap picks plus another pick)
BC had nothing to lose.
Nobody can adequately explain why Reilly wouldn't wait 2 weeks to optimize his deal.
I think it's pretty clear cut why Reilly would take the deal and run... he was only ever going to have an opportunity to start here or in EDM.
That's exactly the point...Reilly wasn't going anywhere but Edmonton. He had made up his mind.
Way to cherry pick my posts to make your point. If Reilly got to free agency, he was going to the highest bidder with the best starting opportunity. Wally Buono is not in the business of making sweetheart deals... he could give a f*** less where Reilly wanted to go. Wally's only interested in getting a return for something that 2 days later would bring him nothing... and if WPG and EDM were equal, he was dealing the negotiating rights to WPG, because he'd be dealing Reilly out of his division. He just got the best deal from EDM. There's nothing more to it than that. Supply and command, Ricky.
If Reilly got to Free Agency, I would agree with your point. But he didn't, and Buono made the best deal for Buono... you can guarantee that Reilly's preference played exactly 0% into where Buono would have dealt him.
I don't agree.
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All that does is bring us back to Crowton at the controls. I could throw up that was Buck was 'good enough' to get us to the GC game in 2011 with Barresi/Lapo.
This argument will never resolve because there is no 'bad guy'.
well except that PIerce wasn't good enough... They won the east final on the strength of the defense and running game. What did Pierce do in the Grey Cup game other than suck balls until garbage time? The thing that no one backing Pierce seems to want to address is that his struggles are not a new thing, he's been going downhill every since 2010 at the earliest and partway through 2011 at the latest.
Good lord, he was good enough to beat Glenn that day 19 - 3, now you're just looking foolish.
Who exactly looks foolish?
Glenn was 13-18 in that game, much better than Buck's 16-28 with 1 INT.
Or I suppose we should blame Glenn for having his ankle rolled on the first play of the second half.
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Oh and just so everyone is aware ... we were never giving up a first rounder to get Reilly.
We were swapping firsts and giving up a third.
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Because Wpg was never serious about acquiring the guy, otherwise, his agent would have advised against signing before all the offers were listened too. Mack was betting on his horses in the race, just as he has always done before, the track record is there for all to see.
Right, because I guess we just never really wanted Reilly, we just negotiated with BC and then leaked the story that Buono didn't give us a fair shake at negotiating with Reilly in order to save face.
What is that? Conspiracy theory #800 on this board?
I don't recall Mack ever saying we would be aggressively pursuing Reilly, perhaps you can show me that?
By negotiate, what do you mean, what was actually negotiated, what did Mack offer to talk to him or did he, again please show me those 'negotiations'.
Please show me proof of anything you speculate on under the guise of an insider around here.
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Mike, c'mon dude. The Lions offered Reilly to Winnipeg. Mack said no. Yes, the conditions were different than Edmonton, I'll grant you that but Mack didn't want to give up a first rounder.
The Lions didn't offer Reilly to anyone.
They offered the rights to Reilly with the ability to negotiate prior to a deal to Edmonton.
They offered the rights to Reilly with no ability to negotiate prior to a deal to Winnipeg.
There is a HUGE difference.
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If we're going to cherry-pick facts about trades that moved quarterbacks to teams other than Winnipeg in an effort to slam Mack, why aren't we ripping him for not holding on to Jyles for one more year and trading him, a first-round pick and Justin Palardy to Edmonton for Ricky Ray? I mean, why hit singles when you can nail the grand slam of revisionist history? A few tweaks here, a forgotten fact there, and Ricky Ray should be lofting corner routes to Greg Carr, who also would still be here putting up all-star numbers if it wasn't for Mack.
Damn you Joe Mack.
Close but by acquiring Reilly he could have turned around and traded him to Hervey for Nichols and his pick back or depending on how bad Hervey wanted him, made Reilly an offer he couldn't refuse to stay.
In either case, the situation looks more like a half hearted attempt.
Right, because that makes sense.
Two horse race, one horse can't sign a deal and the other horse is just going to give up assets to get him.
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Reilly to EDM was in the books before WPG was even a participant. Argument is a non starter.
Again, we really don't know that to be true. An offer was made by Wally to get Reilly to Joe Mack. Mack refused. So Reilly was traded to Edmonton. If he would have been traded to Winnipeg then he could have done the deal as Reilly wasn't a free agent yet & still under contract to the Bombers. Was it a risk? Yes, surely. A HUGE risk & making that trade would have been ballsy because of it but considering where our first round pick is now, I'd have done it. And made bloody sure I signed him. We absolutely do not know if Reilly preferred Edmonton over Winnipeg. They traded for him & got the deal done. We weren't privy & never will be to the discussions in Mack's office, so all total speculation about that. We don't know what was said. Bottom line, that Reilly was the best opportunity to try & fix the mess at qb we have now. Not doing anything has resulted in a losing team as well as a scorcehed Earth battlefield with Bomber managemnt & coaching.... So, maybe the risk Mack took was really standing pat. In the end, doing the deal or not doing the deal cost people their jobs. The repercussions are still going on. I'd like to believe that it was out of Joe's hands but c'mon.... Looking at how he's done business in the past, I find that hard to believe.
So then please explain why the following two things occurred ...
a ) Wally refused to let Winnipeg talk shop with Reilly prior to a trade, but allowed Edmonton to
b ) Reilly did not opt to wait until free agency before signing a deal in order to maximize his earnings
According to what we know it came down to two things... One, the Lions wanted a first rounder from us but a second rounder from Edmonton. And he signed with the Esks virtually minutes after he was obtained in a trade from the Lions. To me, it came down to Mack not believing that fixing the qb mess was worth a first rounder which I find unbelievable. He overvalued Buck & Goltz & undervalued Elliott & Brink which was a mistake. He also dod not want to pay & therefore take a risk on Reilly. According to the way it supposedly went down, Wally offered Mack Reilly & he said no. His choice. Look what has happened since.
Are you turning a blind eye to the facts in this story on purpose or are you just doing it to frustrate me?
The single biggest thing about the difference in negotiations between BC/WPG and BC/EDM is that Edmonton had permission to talk to Reilly and we didn't. But you keep ignoring that every single time.
Why?
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Because Wpg was never serious about acquiring the guy, otherwise, his agent would have advised against signing before all the offers were listened too. Mack was betting on his horses in the race, just as he has always done before, the track record is there for all to see.
Right, because I guess we just never really wanted Reilly, we just negotiated with BC and then leaked the story that Buono didn't give us a fair shake at negotiating with Reilly in order to save face.
What is that? Conspiracy theory #800 on this board?
Does Burke Last the Year?
in Blue Bomber Discussion
Posted
Wait, you think they haven't?