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The Hogan situation gets worse the more you look at it. Buck showed considerable promise and growth in his first 2-ish years. His last season and a half was basically mailed in. Especially his last year here. Things devolved to an abysmal state where he didn't run any of what brought us success, Zach was constantly frustrated, and no one was on the same page. Fast forward, and Buck has the BC offence buzzing. He needed the change to get away from us; we were the toxic ex-workplace. Then, not only does bc get Buck, they scoop Bourgoin who was a better candidate to move up here than hogan and an excellent wr coach. We could've made a decision faster, and given him half a promotion and kept him. Finally we have the whole mess that hogan was and if we had quickly picked Jackson, the right decision the whole time, we could've been drastically better of. If we run it back with Hogan, I bet JY takes any offer that brings him out of here. Maybe Hall retires. I think retaining Hogan could be a major slef inflicted wound.

That would work with me in all honesty....nothing wrong at all in that scenario Osh has had 4 chances since 2021....and his decision in Hogan was the cherry on top of the shitsundae on how he goes about things...Players...coaches.... If we run it back as is.....we know a good majority of the less than stellar giys will be back....positions given...not earned....no deviation from anything if not working or optimal....insistence no to use all the rules afforded to us.....so yeah peob a write-off...casue in all honesty, why would we expect anything different?? Factor in other teams working to be better....Hi there 5th place

Not gonna flame, though I will say I don't really have interest in AH back here coaching any time soon. Right now, we run 11 coaches. With the front office cap, I would either have position coaches being decent scouts as well, or cut back on some positional coaching. We have Billy Jean, Andre Bulduc, Jackson, Hogan, and Costello on offense. I would make Costello OL/run game co. So he would coach the OL and the RBs, and help the OC with designing and installing the run side of the playbook. In this case, let's say JJ is the new OC. Next, I'd bring in a QB coach/pass game assistant, let's say that's Khari. He coaches the WRs, Qbs, and again helps the CO with design and weekly install of the passing game. That is 3 guys covering the same load as 5 are currently. If those 3 are comfortable with their roles and work well enough together and with the HC to do all that, great. If not, I'd bring in 1 offence QC assistant coach, who is also a scout. Basically, he splits his load between the two roles, depending on how much support the offensive staff needs. That scout would be the active CFL side scout, and scout the NFL and spring leagues, etc. Pro scout only, he would work on the guys we bring in actively more than the guys we earmark to try and get up here in the future. This might be a guy like Markus Howell, one of the recently retired guys, etc. On D, I would look to do something similar. We've got JY, Hall, Patterson, and Stanley. If Hall wants to stay, and JY wants to continue to have his support, Hall coaches Lbers and is the defensive assistant; he would be in charge of the run fits and coaching every play with a gap in any scheme in that role. JY is the DC and coaches the secondary. Then I'd love to bring in a guy like Bowman or Irvin, or maybe a guy like Jackson Jeffcoat to be the DL/pass rush coach. Currently, James Stanley is the director of analytics, which would be a valuable role if we had an HC inclined to making decisions in the scientific process. This role for me would be a coach that is Ast to the HC, Competitive advantage coordinator type of thing. Every major NCAA team has a guy whose job it is to spot trends, mismatches, and such in advanced scouting. This would also be a two-part job, providing in-league scouting for in-season pick-ups and free agency each year. This is the guy who says, "Hey, the bombers put Woodbey on their PR and that kid is a player at a position we need". With Mos, I'd have him be the team's CO or defensive assistant. But I really like Miller and the job he's done. So I'd have Miller take on a role as tackling coach (I'd bring in hawk tackling, especially with how practice is these days) and have him scout the league during the season and the cis for teams' guys. Even then, with 4 offensive coaches (1 part scout), 3 defensive coaches, 1 general coach(part scout), Hc and Sts coach, that leaves 1 open spot for either higher pay of current guys or the ability to add another regional scout in the US. I mean, I won't stop cheering for the bombers. But they would have to have a year and start the year to get me to spend money or be optimistic about our chances. If we bring Hogan back, my expectations will be to miss the playoffs. If Walters and Mos are back and Hogan isn't, it'll depend on the offseason moves. Another off-season like the last couple and I'd again have no particular hope or expectations. At that point, it's counting down the losses till the house gets cleaned. As it is, short of meaningful change, I won't be giving any money to the club next year. And I tend to support with my wallet very freely.

I see nothing to suggest Hogan is going to improve and if you keep him, I bet Brady leaves and possibly others too.

So what if they keep Hogan + O'Shea? Do we write off next season or give them at least one more chance?

Honestly, Id argue Arbuckle had the better year by quite a bit. Arbuckle had a less talented Oline, a less talented RB group and a for the most part a less talented WR group....and a Defense that wasn't anywhere near the Defences Kelly played with, like not even in the same atmosphere.

Yeah the off season signings etc will either add fuel or extinguish things. At the start of the year I was openly critically of MOS/Walters/Hogan to friends who aren't as in tune with the CFL but still fairly knowledgeable. And the push back I got for suggesting MOS was becoming a problem told me, most people aren't really seeing what's wrong. They see the sacks/ints/missed tackles etc etc...but not the reason those pile up. It takes losing/blow outs to get most people to see there's a problem.

Hamilton and President O were in deep trouble before this season. I think this year's resurgence has bought them considerable rope, once again. And the only way I think he leaves hamilton is with an apple and a road map. I don't think he bails for another position.

IF.....Osh left, which I think is not likely, but hypothetically, JY as HC with Bowman as DC, Hall still advising defence asst. coaching, and Lapo as OC.....deep experience in Lapo and Hall up and comers in JY and Bowman.....possibly even AH as Rb and offensive asst. to work with Lapo again provided young new blood, and a connection to the young guys......other assistants stay.....Walters stays, and puts key focus on the lines..... Ok flame away..if you wish.....

Yeah, and where dragging out feet hurt us a lo last year imo, it could be drastically worse this year. I think we still see 1 more move from the above list before the year is out. I hope, we act next. Yeah, this is a great point. It's starting to seep down the fan base into the above average fan, but it's a bit slow. A bad start to the year next year would ignite it like a rocket, though. I think a slow/lacklustre off season would accelerate the process as well. The average and below fans are not pleased at losing guys like lawler with out adding back to the roster through free agency.

yup....some dominoes are gonna have to fall first...and any excessive feet dragging by us like before and we could be wandering the wilderness a bit Do we strike first and set the table and move on from Osh...Promote up JY now and then work from there?....Be a real kick to the nads to pussyfoot this...and have almost everyone defect...and with that...prob a lot of players as they see a sinking ship for a few yrs Will be interesting close to November for sure

I mean...the hardcore fans here see that it's been slipping for more than just this year. But the vast majority of ticket buyers do not. They still made the playoffs still had double digit wins (10yr in a row) and 14 straight sell outs and counting. You might feel they don't have the right...but in pro sports like in most businesses, $$$ trumps your feelings. The only way both aren't back is if they don't want to be.

Also agree ...no Thorpe especially when there is a lot better candidates out there......Getting a little ahead of ourselves here BUT I hope IF the major changes are made that we are not going to to be moving ahead at a snails pace....Have to pay due diligence but also would like to see us proceed in a timely manner

He might not scout but it looks like he has more say in the roster than you seem to think, Coaching dominoes begin to fall – Winnipeg Free Press

Yeah, Montreal is stacked like we were in 19/21 for front office and staff candidates. I don't see Macioca going up to president and giving up the GM role either. And agree, I want no part of Thorpe. Ontario is really going to dictate our off-season imo. Depending on who takes what jobs. Mos and JY have serious ties to TO. I feel like Mos will be a top target for them. I think Thorpe and Chris Jones (shudder), will about round out who they look at. Then Hamilton has the GM opening from Ted. I think they will go after Walters, and Danny Mac I bet, will be deep in the fray again. Then ottawa will be settling its coaching staff under dinwiddie. I could see them targeting Jackson, Costello, and maybe even offering an AST HC title to JY. I also think we will likely be the last once again to have our positions in the front office settled.

Steinauer is president of football ops, why would he take a demotion? Also why would Hamilton allow it? They can't block a chance at a promotion but they could deny the Argos permission to talk to him about a lower position.

Exactly....when you gut a team ....like we've been AND the argos, the expected fail is around the corner...An article saying O'Shea could be the replacement for Dinwoodie IS a good possibility....Maybe it would be best for all concerned...Our head coaching has gone stale and a new start for Osh could be a good thing...It clears the way for us to do the same thing.....get a fresh start ........ What happens with Walters....does he take his act east as well.....Going to get very interesting

You’re like an obsessive ex bro. Its unhealthy.

So the bombers could save lots of money by letting every other coach besides O’Shea go then. Cuz wtf is the point of the other coaches. Youngers D would be lethal with the right guys. lol. Hogans O would be with 5 milt stegalls also. I mean the right guys. If only O’Shea scouted and kept all these pre season all stars working at foot locker.

please please lol Tell me you got the scoop hahahaha

Argos gonna get Osh or and Steinauer I bet.

yeah....he got done hard raw....Players were not happy about that as well I also think Bowman is also a up and comer and some of the new breed who could be around a while as a HC... Yup...He's quietly biding his time and is a guy who building a nice resume of experience there in Mtl and can see being plucked as there not much MTL can really do there for him uless they cut bait with some guys...which I can't see.....Maybe they move from Thorpe but I dont want him anywhere near here...As far as cancers go on a coaching staff...He's the poster child...Melanoma Head personified Mickey Donovam is also a guy who would be a good candidate for new blood somewhere....No Nonsense kinda guy...players love and respect...and will get best outta everyone....If there was an outlier off the radar kinda guy to give a shot to...in an already established culture like here...He's be a real good pick and I would be more than happy with him

They also had like 3 loses by 3 or less. Toronto capsized because for years they have been hammered away at in free agency, with out doing much to bring stars back. Just like us. That Dejon Allen trade, even though he was hurt a good chunk of this season, was still just awful. The chatfield trade was the only decent one pinball made, and he swung a bunch of trades this season/off-season. Pinball also couldn't manage to find the argos a RB worth a damn to replace AJ with. The dip in the argos production is squarely on pinball/muphy but they let Dinwiddie take the fall. No he's off to better things and the argos will probably be a basement dweller.

Bowman is a gooder for sure, so is corey irvin in montreal. In that case, I think the best "next guy up" in the legue is Byran Archambeault. I also think he is the best candidate to be a HC and work closely with the GM in the front office, and maybe do both jobs or be an AGM one day while also coaching. Lavergne in Montreal is also a strong future front office candidate. Idk if any of the montreal guys will want to leave, but they have a lot of guys hard stuck behind macioca and maas. Even AC could be an ast HC and OC if not a HC candidate.

2 cups in 3 years, an Eastern Final and one non playoff year when they still competed on offense with Arbuckle having a career year and Henslow emerging as a stud. Missing the forest for the trees, Dude.