I live in the south end of Winnipeg, in a concrete condo built in 1989. My 7th floor unit is a 2BR 1000 sq feet penthouse with a river view. The condo was recently assessed at $220,000. I pay $400 per month in condo fees, which include:

Home phone - $20 value

Cable TV - $50 value

Gym & Rec Centre, which I use regularly - $40 value

Water - $50 value (average over a full year)

Heat - $50 value (average over a full year - Winnipeg winters are cold!)

Fire insurance - $20 value

So that's a total of $230 of $400 per month I'd be spending even if I lived in a house. I suppose the other $170 is for maintenance, parking, security, repairs, landscaping etc. I know a lot of people feel condo fees are a waste of money but when broken down this seems fairly reasonable to me.

In your opinion are these condo fees reasonable?

Been looking into buying a condo recently and what I will say is that the condo that we seriously considered was brand new (built in 2014) and the condo fees were lower than that for a $279,000 condo but they didn't include all of our utilities or a gym facility (all of which you seem to be undervaluing a bit, in my opinion)

 

The fees were $130/month. 

 

Does it cover your internet? Or just your cable TV / home phone?

 

Gym / rec center probably isn't equivalent to a stand alone gym, but you won't get a membership at a place like Goodlife or the Y for $40 either so you've got some savings there. The other utilities are low and would likely go up if you lived in your own home.

 

I guess what you've got to look at is, if you lived in a house would you be okay with spending $400 a month on all of that stuff and honestly, my answer would be a resounding yes. The trade off obviously is the stuff that you get when you own a home as opposed to a condo (more yard but more work, a basement but more work, it's all a balance based off preference)

 

Also, I'm shocked what you're describing was assessed at only $220,000. If you don't mind me asking, what specific part of the south end are you located in?

Not terrible. I live in a 7th floor 1BR condo in the south end... About 700 sq feet, no river view. I rent so I don't have to worry about condo fees but my neighbors tell me the fees are around 250. There is no gym or home phone but that includes everything else. Yours seems slightly high but sounds like a nicer place. If you have underground parking I'd say the fees are pretty reasonable. If not, still not so bad. Personally I would never purchase a condo but that's just a preference on my part.

Lived in two condos in my life.  First one was 1999 when I rented a condo on Plaza drive dirt cheap.  My buddy lived there with a room mate who's parents had bought it for her for school.  When she graduated, she moved out and I moved in with the idea being the parents only cared that the condo fees were paid.  They eventually sold.  it was a great complex though with a rec center (pool, gym, tanning, squash court).  I was probably in great shape back then.

 

Gf and I bought a condo, also on Plaza but different complex then above (the blue three stories) in 2005-ish I think.  I really cant remember what the condo fees were but I think they were half what OP is paying.  Problem was, those buildings are so close to the river that they have a lot of issues with movement, floors buckling etc.

 

$400 seems really high for fees in my opinion.

 

Im open to the idea of condo living but would always prefer a house (such as I have now).  For one thing, as much as i dislike mowing and shoveling, Im capable of doing it.  For another, dont have to worry about neighbours.  Also, you have to be careful with the condo boards.  The condo we owned had a very healthy reserve fund but because of that, the owners were constantly trying to convince the board to spend it on things like new windows, new patio doors etc.  basically, to give it back to the owners.  We were lucky in that our treasurer was actually an accountant and cautioned against it.  I think we had $300,000+ in the reserve fund at one point but the boilers were coming to end of life and were close to $100,000 each.  But every time there was a meeting, people would demand the money be spent subsidising owner improvements.  It was a constant battle.  One owner even measured everyone's parking stalls to complain that certain people had three inches more space than others.

 

We bought for $80,000 sold it after three years for $110,000 and the guy that bought it was immediately hit with a $1500 special assessment because of issues (keeping in mind they had a large reserve fund and still needed to special assess the owners) and then he sold it two years later for $130,000.  When we owned it, the condo fees plus mortgage was so low, it didnt matter.  Now, if I'm looking at a condo for $220,000-$250,000 PLUS fees?  I dont know...I'd shop for a house for that price.

Mike, the condo fees don't cover internet.

I live in a condo around Pembina and Bishop Grandin.

The gym at my condo has all the necessities, but nothing extravagant. The $40 I estimated is cost per month I'd have to pay for a membership at the Y or Shapes.

Mike, the condo fees don't cover internet.

I live in a condo around Pembina and Bishop Grandin.

The gym at my condo has all the necessities, but nothing extravagant. The $40 I estimated is cost per month I'd have to pay for a membership at the Y or Shapes.

 

That's a weird arrangement that your fees don't cover internet, but they cover home phone and cable. Seems like you lose out on the ability to bundle + save.

 

I think for everything included, your $400 is a good deal.

Mike, the condo fees don't cover internet.

I live in a condo around Pembina and Bishop Grandin.

The gym at my condo has all the necessities, but nothing extravagant. The $40 I estimated is cost per month I'd have to pay for a membership at the Y or Shapes.

That's a weird arrangement that your fees don't cover internet, but they cover home phone and cable. Seems like you lose out on the ability to bundle + save.

I think for everything included, your $400 is a good deal.

If I get my Internet through Shaw, which I do, I still get the bundle discount.

 

 

Mike, the condo fees don't cover internet.

I live in a condo around Pembina and Bishop Grandin.

The gym at my condo has all the necessities, but nothing extravagant. The $40 I estimated is cost per month I'd have to pay for a membership at the Y or Shapes.

That's a weird arrangement that your fees don't cover internet, but they cover home phone and cable. Seems like you lose out on the ability to bundle + save.

I think for everything included, your $400 is a good deal.

If I get my Internet through Shaw, which I do, I still get the bundle discount.

 

 

Oh okay, that's cool then that it's worked out that way.

You need to compare apples to apples when it comes to what is included, what type of building it is, how old the building is, what your parking is (outdoors/underground/covered/secure).  Given what you described as being included it does seem to be reasonable to me. 

 

Having your water and heat included, that's convenient, but not necessarily best since you're not paying based on consumption.  When you say heat, do you mean your total hydro bill, including electricity, or is that separate?

 

In the end condo fees are supposed to cover the expenses of the building itself and other costs, and also allow for a reserve fund to slowly build up.  You should be able to find out from your condo board if there is an adequate reserve developing for larger repairs, because if there isn't, then any major things will be billed to the tenants much like TUP mentioned above.

Heat only means heat. It's steam heat. All other elictricity I'm responsible for.

We recently had a condo study conducted by a third party consultant and they said the reserve fund was in good shape.

I live in the south end of Winnipeg, in a concrete condo built in 1989. My 7th floor unit is a 2BR 1000 sq feet penthouse with a river view. The condo was recently assessed at $220,000. I pay $400 per month in condo fees, which include:

Home phone - $20 value

Cable TV - $50 value

Gym & Rec Centre, which I use regularly - $40 value

Water - $50 value (average over a full year)

Heat - $50 value (average over a full year - Winnipeg winters are cold!)

Fire insurance - $20 value

So that's a total of $230 of $400 per month I'd be spending even if I lived in a house. I suppose the other $170 is for maintenance, parking, security, repairs, landscaping etc. I know a lot of people feel condo fees are a waste of money but when broken down this seems fairly reasonable to me.

In your opinion are these condo fees reasonable?

 

Your condo fees seem to be in line with what you would expect to pay in Winnipeg for a similar sized unit. As I understand it, most condos fees do not include phone and the inclusive cable must be part of the building security system arrangement. The gym is an extra, but is much cheaper than if you had a pool. Those, with pools, are very expensive, and personally, I wouldn't go to a condo with a pool. Too costly, especially in Winnipeg's climate.

Condo living is not for everyone, but neither is owning a house. There's a huge trade off, with the ease of condo living as opposed to the maintenance of a house and yard etc.

 

Been looking into buying a condo recently and what I will say is that the condo that we seriously considered was brand new (built in 2014) and the condo fees were lower than that for a $279,000 condo but they didn't include all of our utilities or a gym facility (all of which you seem to be undervaluing a bit, in my opinion)

 

The fees were $130/month. 

 

 

This fee seems exceedingly low.

I love this thread! The Mrs and I have been in an apt for 2 years now. Just off Corydon, right in the village. The rent has steadily risen since we've been there... now close to $1400/month. It's really hard to justify that for rent. We've been debating condo, buying a house, condo, buying a house....

I live in the south end of Winnipeg, in a concrete condo built in 1989. My 7th floor unit is a 2BR 1000 sq feet penthouse with a river view. The condo was recently assessed at $220,000. I pay $400 per month in condo fees, which include:

Home phone - $20 value

Cable TV - $50 value

Gym & Rec Centre, which I use regularly - $40 value

Water - $50 value (average over a full year)

Heat - $50 value (average over a full year - Winnipeg winters are cold!)

Fire insurance - $20 value

So that's a total of $230 of $400 per month I'd be spending even if I lived in a house. I suppose the other $170 is for maintenance, parking, security, repairs, landscaping etc. I know a lot of people feel condo fees are a waste of money but when broken down this seems fairly reasonable to me.

In your opinion are these condo fees reasonable?

Your condo fees seem to be in line with what you would expect to pay in Winnipeg for a similar sized unit. As I understand it, most condos fees do not include phone and the inclusive cable must be part of the building security system arrangement. The gym is an extra, but is much cheaper than if you had a pool. Those, with pools, are very expensive, and personally, I wouldn't go to a condo with a pool. Too costly, especially in Winnipeg's climate.

Condo living is not for everyone, but neither is owning a house. There's a huge trade off, with the ease of condo living as opposed to the maintenance of a house and yard etc.

Been looking into buying a condo recently and what I will say is that the condo that we seriously considered was brand new (built in 2014) and the condo fees were lower than that for a $279,000 condo but they didn't include all of our utilities or a gym facility (all of which you seem to be undervaluing a bit, in my opinion)

The fees were $130/month.

This fee seems exceedingly low.

My building also has an indoor pool and hot tub.

 

 

I live in the south end of Winnipeg, in a concrete condo built in 1989. My 7th floor unit is a 2BR 1000 sq feet penthouse with a river view. The condo was recently assessed at $220,000. I pay $400 per month in condo fees, which include:

Home phone - $20 value

Cable TV - $50 value

Gym & Rec Centre, which I use regularly - $40 value

Water - $50 value (average over a full year)

Heat - $50 value (average over a full year - Winnipeg winters are cold!)

Fire insurance - $20 value

So that's a total of $230 of $400 per month I'd be spending even if I lived in a house. I suppose the other $170 is for maintenance, parking, security, repairs, landscaping etc. I know a lot of people feel condo fees are a waste of money but when broken down this seems fairly reasonable to me.

In your opinion are these condo fees reasonable?

Your condo fees seem to be in line with what you would expect to pay in Winnipeg for a similar sized unit. As I understand it, most condos fees do not include phone and the inclusive cable must be part of the building security system arrangement. The gym is an extra, but is much cheaper than if you had a pool. Those, with pools, are very expensive, and personally, I wouldn't go to a condo with a pool. Too costly, especially in Winnipeg's climate.

Condo living is not for everyone, but neither is owning a house. There's a huge trade off, with the ease of condo living as opposed to the maintenance of a house and yard etc. 

 

 

My building also has an indoor pool and hot tub.

 

 

Indoor pools are less costly. I was referring to outdoor pools. 

Sounds like your condo is a conversion from a rental building.

I live in the south end of Winnipeg, in a concrete condo built in 1989. My 7th floor unit is a 2BR 1000 sq feet penthouse with a river view. The condo was recently assessed at $220,000. I pay $400 per month in condo fees, which include:

Home phone - $20 value

Cable TV - $50 value

Gym & Rec Centre, which I use regularly - $40 value

Water - $50 value (average over a full year)

Heat - $50 value (average over a full year - Winnipeg winters are cold!)

Fire insurance - $20 value

So that's a total of $230 of $400 per month I'd be spending even if I lived in a house. I suppose the other $170 is for maintenance, parking, security, repairs, landscaping etc. I know a lot of people feel condo fees are a waste of money but when broken down this seems fairly reasonable to me.

In your opinion are these condo fees reasonable?

Your condo fees seem to be in line with what you would expect to pay in Winnipeg for a similar sized unit. As I understand it, most condos fees do not include phone and the inclusive cable must be part of the building security system arrangement. The gym is an extra, but is much cheaper than if you had a pool. Those, with pools, are very expensive, and personally, I wouldn't go to a condo with a pool. Too costly, especially in Winnipeg's climate.

Condo living is not for everyone, but neither is owning a house. There's a huge trade off, with the ease of condo living as opposed to the maintenance of a house and yard etc.

My building also has an indoor pool and hot tub.

Indoor pools are less costly. I was referring to outdoor pools.

Sounds like your condo is a conversion from a rental building.

Pretty sure it's always been a condo, but I could be wrong. Why do you think it used to be a rental property?

 

Pretty sure it's always been a condo, but I could be wrong. Why do you think it used to be a rental property?

 

 

No, if you think it was always a condo bldg, then it must be so. I was just thinking that, at one point, condo bldgs, were not popular for the Winnipeg market and I thought the condo building boom came later.

My grandparents used to have a condo at Tuxedo Towers on Corydon/Doncaster. 18th floor...man, I loved that place. We were snowed in there during the huge blizzard of Jan 97.

 

When the old lady and I decided to buy a place in 2013, we looked at lots of stuff, but condo was never an option. I just can't fathom paying the fees every month, which around here don't get you much. Generally go into a "maintenance fund", and once a year they'll do a pile of repairs on the entire place. 

 

Even duplexes...looked at those, but the idea of a shared wall bothered me. Ended up finding a 2004-built house that was repo-ed, so we got a pretty good deal at 233,900, which is really low for out here, even for a smaller town. After less than 2 years, we're probably close to 300k in value now, and increasing as we're re-doing the flooring in the whole place. Definitely happy with the choice we made.

A buddy was thinking of selling his house (high mortgage payments) and downsizing.  I went with him to look at many homes last summer/fall and it was very tough out there.  Saw a few pretty nice homes for under $200,000 but they were very small or in less than desirable areas.  If you luck out and find a reasonably priced home in a good area with good size, it's in need of a complete renovation/remodel.

 

Bought out house in St Norbert in 2008 for $169,000.  City assessment just came out at $246,000.  We had a market valuation done a couple years ago at about $230,000. 

 

If I could give my 20 year old self some advice, it would be to buy all the property you can when it was so damned cheap.  What do young people today do when they need to buy their first home?  Are they renting until their well into their careers and marriage and can finally afford it?  Are they borrowing down payments from parents?

$200+k for a starter home in Winnipeg, or $200k for this: http://www.coldwellbankeratlanta.com/property/details/2163327/MLS-5377822/717-Southland-Pass-Stone-Mountain-GA-30087.aspx

$200+k for a starter home in Winnipeg, or $200k for this: http://www.coldwellbankeratlanta.com/property/details/2163327/MLS-5377822/717-Southland-Pass-Stone-Mountain-GA-30087.aspx

 

Just remember that the real estate bubble has already burst in the US, and has yet to pop in Canada....but it inevitably will.

 

$200+k for a starter home in Winnipeg, or $200k for this: http://www.coldwellbankeratlanta.com/property/details/2163327/MLS-5377822/717-Southland-Pass-Stone-Mountain-GA-30087.aspx

 

Just remember that the real estate bubble has already burst in the US, and has yet to pop in Canada....but it inevitably will.

 

 

 

Quite aware of this. Regardless, I was simply pointing out the extreme difference.

I rent an appt. I priced out buying an equivielnt condo downtown and it would run me much more a month. Plus I'm not likely long for living in Winnipeg and CMCH/other closing costs amortized over a year or 2 is a complete rip off. Plus I do too well on my investments to tie up a down payment in a condo. Different strokes for different folks.

 

With condo fees you have the right idea. $400 isn't bad if in includes all that and $100 bucks can be a rip off it just includes snow removal and water.

 

Before I'd buy a 280K condo I'd take a look at what the equivalent appartment would run me a month and how that compares to the non principal parts of the condo purchase. I'd als look at what I could do with the downpayment in a different part of investment landscape.

I rent an appt. I priced out buying an equivielnt condo downtown and it would run me much more a month. Plus I'm not likely long for living in Winnipeg and CMCH/other closing costs amortized over a year or 2 is a complete rip off. Plus I do too well on my investments to tie up a down payment in a condo. Different strokes for different folks.

With condo fees you have the right idea. $400 isn't bad if in includes all that and $100 bucks can be a rip off it just includes snow removal and water.

Before I'd buy a 280K condo I'd take a look at what the equivalent appartment would run me a month and how that compares to the non principal parts of the condo purchase. I'd als look at what I could do with the downpayment in a different part of investment landscape.

Fraser, your strategy certainly works if you are disciplined enough to invest the difference, instead of just spending it on useless stuff.

If I could give my 20 year old self some advice, it would be to buy all the property you can when it was so damned cheap.  What do young people today do when they need to buy their first home?  Are they renting until their well into their careers and marriage and can finally afford it?  Are they borrowing down payments from parents?

That would be some damn good advice. I was lucky enough to by my house in 2007, and not long after that the housing prices in Winnipeg really took off. Not the nicest place but it's in a great neighborhood (Portage/Ferry area, south side of Portage). Now, after a little bit of work the house couldn't possibly go for less than 180k if it hit the market. I can remember feeling gouged when I paid 91k. Had no idea how lucky I really was.

 

My brother is buying his first home now, same area roughly but north of Ness. He has to borrow from my folks to get the 10% minimum he needs for CMHC. He's lucky to have that luxury, I have no idea how the next generation of home buyers are going to make it work, especially if their parents can't help them out.

 

If I could give my 20 year old self some advice, it would be to buy all the property you can when it was so damned cheap.  What do young people today do when they need to buy their first home?  Are they renting until their well into their careers and marriage and can finally afford it?  Are they borrowing down payments from parents?

That would be some damn good advice. I was lucky enough to by my house in 2007, and not long after that the housing prices in Winnipeg really took off. Not the nicest place but it's in a great neighborhood (Portage/Ferry area, south side of Portage). Now, after a little bit of work the house couldn't possibly go for less than 180k if it hit the market. I can remember feeling gouged when I paid 91k. Had no idea how lucky I really was.

 

My brother is buying his first home now, same area roughly but north of Ness. He has to borrow from my folks to get the 10% minimum he needs for CMHC. He's lucky to have that luxury, I have no idea how the next generation of home buyers are going to make it work, especially if their parents can't help them out.

 

 

Just like they do across North America.... they simply never own the home and continually pay the mortgage... which sucks.  

 

If I could give my 20 year old self some advice, it would be to buy all the property you can when it was so damned cheap.  What do young people today do when they need to buy their first home?  Are they renting until their well into their careers and marriage and can finally afford it?  Are they borrowing down payments from parents?

That would be some damn good advice. I was lucky enough to by my house in 2007, and not long after that the housing prices in Winnipeg really took off. Not the nicest place but it's in a great neighborhood (Portage/Ferry area, south side of Portage). Now, after a little bit of work the house couldn't possibly go for less than 180k if it hit the market. I can remember feeling gouged when I paid 91k. Had no idea how lucky I really was.

 

My brother is buying his first home now, same area roughly but north of Ness. He has to borrow from my folks to get the 10% minimum he needs for CMHC. He's lucky to have that luxury, I have no idea how the next generation of home buyers are going to make it work, especially if their parents can't help them out.

 

 

Truth be told the value of your asset has probably only increased in "real value" 5-10% during that time period if at all.  The degradation of the currency by printing non-stop bank notes is the main cause for the staggering inflation in house prices.  It's a classic bubble scenario.

 

As for the next generation of home buyers, salaries should have doubled or even tripled in the same time period to match the currency devaluation but in fact they have been falling in real purchasing power since the early seventies.  They just need to convince their bosses to pay them in gold or platinum rather than paper and they should be okay.