TrueBlue4ever

Was he hooked up with Anna Kournikova at the time, and did she ever pop in? Not sure if he stole her from Federov, or vice versa? She seemed to flip-flop between the two of them.

Put it on a loop, like "A Christmas Story" on TBS. Early estimates of the cost of the wall (2 years ago) pegged it at $25 billion, not $5 billion. Couldn't hurt to throw that nugget out there either for the voters. "He's lied to you about not having to pay, and it will cost even more than he's now conceding it will cost you"

Next up are the linebackers, starting with the outside linebackers. I am going to throw out a bunch of names, and will ask for help in positioning as inside or outside (or correcting any inaccuracies in my listings), as well as those I have missed (also help if anyone can position those players who were with the club pre-1950's when there was no formal "linebacker" position, but who deserve a nomination). Linebackers to consider include Antonio Armstrong(?), Maurice Kelly(?), KD Williams(?), Elfrid Payton (outside), James West (all-star at both inside and outside, but I believe he should go in as an inside backer, please confirm or refute), Ty Jones (outside), Rob McLaren (outside), Phil Minnick (outside), Henoc Muamba (inside), Greg Battle (inside, although he too was an all-star one year at outside backer), Barren Simpson (inside), Aaron Brown (inside), Harry Walters (inside), Mike Doyle (inside), Dave Burkholder (inside), Ike Charlton(?), Delbert Fowler(?). We already had Gordie Rowland and Mo Leggett, both who were outside (cover) backers, listed in the defensive halfback position given the hybrid nature of the new SAM position, so I am disinclined to repeat them here, but I am willing to be convinced if people want a re-vote on them in this category. Also, Zeke Moreno was an all-star at middle linebacker one year, which is my default staring point when compiling these nominee lists, but since he was traded midway through the year and earned that award as much with the Tiger Cats, I will leave him off. I'm pretty sure I'll get no objections. Lots of names, so don't be afraid to tell me who I have missed, or who does not belong in here for consideration in the first place.

One man's take: Safety is an unusual position on this all-time list. Stats are often secondary when judging a safety, most people want the big hitter who makes opponents fear going to the tough areas, so their best attribute is NOT being thrown to, even though as a rover type of player, they could be in on any given pass play and therefore could inflate their stats. I sense that personal name recognition and club success during their tenure will sway the vote heavily here. I see no clear-cut favorite, but here is my assessment. Brule, Cavness, Logan, Ulmer - all played in the dead zone eras of the club in the mid-60's to mid 70's, and mid-2000's in Logan's case, when the team was awful, so that hurts their name recognition for younger MBB members. Each had one notable season during their tenure where they got league recognition (Ulmer has bigger numbers due to longer tenure) but none strike me as serious contenders for votes. Europe - profile heightened by being on a powerhouse team, but he wasn't really an all-timer at safety, numbers or impact-wise. Also, played here at the end of a career that spanned a few teams, so take his non-Bomber achievements out of the equation. So 6 to ponder: Bennett - when I first thought of safeties, he jumped right out at me, but I may be biased because I was indoctrinated as a youngster on the Bombers when he first arrived. Still, was an impact player when he was here. Also carried his talents over to Hamilton where he continued his dominance at the league level (won some major awards during his tenure there), but this poll is supposed to ignore his contributions to other clubs, and his talents at other positions too (this really hurts him, because he was so effective as a punt returner here, but that is not to be factored in). I am waffling on him a bit now, as I examined the other nominees' bios. Played less games here too, so maybe I am looking too hard at strikes against him. Herosian - a bit before my time so I can't make a fully fair judgement on him, but I do know the name. Personal tragedies score him sympathy votes, but he seems to have had a pretty dominant 3 year run with the club in any event, even if it was at a low point in the club's history success-wise. It is quite something when a safety can be nominated twice as the club's outstanding defender, much less even once, so big points there for him. Loffler - let's face it, he will not win this or even come close. Sadly, that may be as much a result of the schizophrenia that has overtaken so much of this board due to the club's struggles and the need to find scapegoats (don't believe me? Quick, without looking it up, can anyone NOT tell me how long since the last Grey Cup win, and hey did you see the posts immediately after, I don't know, EVERY SINGLE Bomber loss this year - this place is nuts). Actually, his newness hurts, and he may be more appreciated a few years down the road, but no other player on this list has been a 3-time CFL all-star, much less been one every year they have played, so is undisputed as the best in the business right now, for what it's worth. And his peers in the CFLPA back up that sentiment. Give him 3 more years at his current pace of success and I think he may well win the vote if we do this again in 2025. Thompson - I will again remind people not to consider anything other than the Bomber careers of the nominees, so no brownie points given for the fact that he clearly was (like Bolden at halfback) too good for the CFL, and had a long career of achievement in the NFL after he left. And when you break it down, he was only a safety for one year, so I personally don't think he warrants recognition over other longer standing players. Having said that, WOW, what a year for the ages he had in 1988 (82 tackles! And who ever had 7 sacks from the safety spot???). But one great year should not outweigh all else, in my mind (but hey, I used that logic for Bolden and voted for Casey and Hailey over him, and look where that got me, so I suspect I am shouting at the trees here). Bonus points for a cool nickname (calling a safety "hit man" and having it become his personal moniker is like calling a goalie "brick wall" and having it stick, you've basically anointed them as the best ever right there). Rauhaus - this is where different eras make these polls tricky. Safety was a different role in the 1960's (see Stats Junkie's brilliant post on the evolution of the game and the positions for a primer), but the cold numbers say his 34 interceptions are second-best in club history, and 17 fumble recoveries is an eye-popping number. Played in the golden era, and his 4 rings are quadruple anyone else on the list. Flagel - I wonder how many who never saw the mid-1980's Bomber team even heard of him, but he checks all the boxes for all-time great. Tenure (how many safeties grind out 6 years as an unchallenged starter these days), check. Stats (25 total turnovers is #3 on this list), check. League recognition (only Loffler compares to his 6 all-star and player award wins), check. Cup ring, check. I fear he will be the Ken Hailey of this poll, a brilliant player who is fully deserving of all-time great recognition, but will be overlooked due to being "consistently great" rather than "one season all-world" and not known by the younger MBB board members. In the end, from 6 to 1 I would rank them right now as Herosian, Thompson (ouch, but only one season just can't be graded higher) , Loffler (yah, he could be #6 too), Bennett, Rauhaus, and Flagel at the top. Now ask me again tomorrow, when I completely flip this order. I've surprised myself that I didn't still have Bennett as a lock once I dug into this analysis.

Vote for only one. Here is a list of bios: Paul Bennett – 61 games in 4 seasons (1980-83), 18 Int., 437 yards, 4.5 sacks, divisional all-star in 1982 and 83, CFL all-star in 1983, CFL Most Outstanding Canadian player in 1983, 1982 team nominee Most Outstanding Defensive player, CFL Hall of Fame Paul Brule – 63 games in 4 seasons (1968-71), 14 Int., 238 yards, 1 fumble recovery, 0 yards, 1970 divisional all-star, team nominee Most Outstanding Canadian player in 1970, Canadian Football Hall of Fame Grady Cavness – 28 games in 2 seasons (1972-73), 11 Int., 203 yards, 4 fumble recoveries, divisional and CFL all-star in 1972 Tom Europe – 79 games in 5 seasons (1999-2003), 8 Int., 168 yards, 2 fumble recoveries, 46 yards, 1 TD, 167 tackles, 2 sacks, divisional all-star in 2002, Grey Cup appearance in 2001 Scott Flagel – 91 games in 6 seasons (1982-87), 16 Int., 291 yards, 2 TDs, 9 fumble recoveries, 50 yards, 41 tackles in 1987, 2 sacks, 3 time divisional all-star (1985-87), CFL all-star 1986 and 1987, 1987 CFL Most Outstanding Canadian player, 1984 Grey Cup Cahmpion Brian Herosian – 65 games in 5 seasons (1975-79), 17 Int., 183 yards, 5 fumble recoveries, 7 yards, divisional all-star in 1975 and 76, CFL all-star in 1976, team nominee for outstanding defensive player in 1975 and 1977 Taylor Loffler – 50 games in 3 seasons (2016-18), 8 Int., 166 yards, 7 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 10 yards, 185 tackles, 1 sack, 3 time divisional all-star (2016-18), 3 time CFL all-star (2016-18), CFLPA all-star in 2017 and 2018, team nominee for Outstanding Rookie player 2016 Ian Logan – 99 games in 7 seasons (2006-12), 12 Int. 76 yards, 1 fumble recovery, 0 yards, 224 tackles, 4 sacks, divisional, CFL and CFLPA all-star in 2011, Grey Cup appearance in 2011 Norm Rauhaus – 185 games in 12 seasons (1956-67), 34 Int., 322 yards, 1 TD, 17 fumble recoveries, 130 yards, 3 TDs, divisional all-star in 1961, team nominee for Outstanding Canadian player in 1961, 4 time Grey Cup champion (1958, 59, 61, 62), 6 Grey Cup appearances (1957-59, 61, 62, 65) Bennie Thompson – 35 games in 3 seasons* (1986-88), 7 Int., 107 yards, 4 fumble recoveries, 10 yards, 119 tackles, 9 sacks, 1988 divisional and CFL all-star, *1988 stat line (his one season as a safety) – 4 Int., 58 yards, 2 fumble recoveries, 2 yards, 82 tackles, 7 sacks in 18 games, 1986 team nominee for Outstanding Rookie player, 1988 team nominee for Outstanding Defensive player, 1988 Grey Cup champion Ed Ulmer – 99 games in 7 seasons (1965-71), 25 Int., 340 yards, 1 TD, 7 fumble recoveries, 0 yards, 1966 divisional and CFL all-star, 1965 Grey Cup appearance

Ok, the safety list is ready and will be posted shortly. I have included just about every name mentioned on this list, with a few notable exceptions. Maurice Kelly and Terry Ray I have down at linebacker, even if they did spot duty at safety, so they are out. As is Wes Lysack. Basically one season as a Bomber and no notable stats. Noeller's plea to have him included for his other talents has fallen on my deaf ears - that can be a part of another poll (horniest player?) if he wants.

If I'm the Democrats, I just answer any complaints about a shutdown that is their fault with "but the President promised the American people the wall would cost them nothing - Mexico was going to pay for it all". At the end of the day, when people vote for politicians, they want to say "I am better off than I was" and the way they typically measure that is more money in their pockets. Trump can lie, cheat, philander, break the law, and be an out-and-out racist and the sad truth is the morality police have nothing on him that can't be forgiven by his voters if they can say they have more money in their pockets at the end of the day. So all of his promises really play to that: MAGA/build the wall/America first - keep out the immigrants stealing our American jobs, and we don't have to pay a dime for it Biggest tax cut in history - forget that it is aimed at the top 1%, the average citizen sees that they get $30 more per paycheque in their wallets (at least in the first year) and thinks it is great Look at the economy - as measured in simple terms by the Dow Jones at record highs (no one really understands the nuance of the numbers or the volatility, just keep pointing out the historic highs - "never been over 26,000 in history before Trump" - because few average folks appreciate that it always trends up long term), so if the country is rich, I must be rich too So hit him where his promise really hurts - Mexico would pay for it. Play the party line of "we cannot condone what amounts to a $5 billion tax hike to the American public for a wall that will have no real effect. Trump lied to you when he said you wouldn't have to pay for it.

He lost because of 6 words: "read my lips....no new taxes"

But the return stats are not supposed to be considered in this vote.

WHAT. A. GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

After 2 periods...regardless of who you you are cheering for, this is a high quality hockey game to watch. Like Preds-Jets narrative last year, I think the NHL would love to see a 7 game playoff series between these 2 teams.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/16/world/greta-thunberg-cop24/index.html

I'm surprised Hefney is doing as well as he is. Wasn't even the best defensive player on his own team when he was here. Don't see him as one the the two best halfbacks all-time.

Time to switch to the safeties. An initial list of nominees off the top of my head - Paul Bennett, Paul Brule, Scott Flagel, Brian Herosian, Bennie Thompson, Norm Rauhaus, Taylor Loffler (don't scoff, 3 for 3 in CFL all-star nods, and team rookie of the year in his first season). Who did I miss?

Just remember that one of my criteria was that only his Blue Bomber achievements should be considered a.k.a the "Geroy Simon" rule. Otherwise I'll just award the punter spot to Jon Ryan and tell Bob Cameron "thanks, now go back to renovating houses".

Wow, and I thought I spewed hyperbole. Which defence is that exactly? When I think of all-time great Bomber defences, I think 1984, 87, 88 (at least the playoffs) and 1990 as the best ever. Nothing from 2009-12 stands out for me as "best ever".

One man's take: Lots of choices here, some very solid players, but not quite the all-world pedigree or name recognition of other positions. Should make for more varied voting and lots of personal preferences. My analysis - Lakusiak - next Bobby Evans - some very nice numbers, quiet solid performer, but never mentioned in the Bomber greats discussions. Pass. Nash Jr., Phason - both at times were the best on the team, but never had the "wow" impact of an all-timer Darryl Sampson -same as Evans, Nash and Phason, very solid, fairly dependable, but never took his game to all-world levels. Bonus points for being a ratio-breaker (and teaching me that "non-import" in the CFL refers to any player who was not US born or trained. Who knew that Trinidad and Tobago also meant "Canadian"? Ken Ploen - hard to overlook his outstanding 1959 year, but let's face it, this is not the category to debate his all-time greatness in. D-I-c-k Thornton - OK, just the fact that I have to hyphenate his first name to get past the board censors should disqualify him. Actually, his name recognition and reputation may be higher than his actual achievements, but he did as much in Toronto as in Winnipeg, so that boosts his profile and maybe makes me biased against him. But he is out too. Now the choices that will start upsetting people: Jonathan Hefney - "little brother" to Jovon Johnson who kind of played in that shadow as well. Certainly some nice numbers and accolades, but his personality may be bigger than his overall greatness. In my mind, not as "all-time" as others on this list. May get more votes due to "recency bias", so I implore people to dig deeper when considering these options and not overlook the old-timers. Maurice Leggett - The single best Bomber defender for most of his tenure here, but not a true halfback. His defining moments came as a hybrid linebacker, so for me that knocks him down a peg. Half his numbers come from one monster season at linebacker, and surprisingly never made all-CFL (which speaks well of the CFLPA all-star team, this year's player choices sully that honour, though) Juran Bolden - His 2001 season is one for the ages, and I am hard-pressed to think of another halfback (although he was really a "rover") who forced teams to change their offences to avoid him. Amazingly, was not even the West defensive nominee, much less the overall winner for defensive MOP that year. And take away take revelatory year, and he may not have the overall mileage to be considered "the best of all-time". If we are going to consider longevity as a significant factor (the Bob Cameron debate upcoming later), then Bolden loses points in this group. My top 3, in no particular order, as I am still deciding who to cut from this trio. I told you you'd be surprised by my choices Tom Casey - this seems so unfair because I defy anyone to find an overall greater athlete for any era who has worn the Blue and Gold. Running back, passer, punter, punt and kick returner, and defensive back, and an all-star at multiple positions. He absolutely needs to be somewhere on this team, but was he the greatest ever at any of those positions? He may be better known as a running back, but his best shot at the team comes here, and he certainly had the numbers to back up his candidacy. One of only two Hall of Famers in this group. Plus, I have a soft spot for a man who went to medical school in Manitoba with my father 66 years ago. Ken Hailey - I am the generation of Bomber fan who grew up in the 1980's, so the 1984 team is the one that made me fall in love with football and the Bombers. Even then, when I talk about the best players from that team, I think Clements, Reaves, Murphy, Jones, Poplawski, House, Boyd, Brown. So this name may not at all be familiar with the generation who was weaned on the 2001 team as their zenith, but take a hard look at his achievements, and you are hard-pressed to say he does not belong at the top of this list. Stats are for losers they say, but how else to judge players over time against others (want to debate Gretzky vs. Orr, look at their numbers compared to each other and to their peers in the same positions over that era to truly appreciate how much better they were than anyone else). #2 in total INTs, games played and seasons on this list, #1 in yardage. One of only 2 players here with 3 Grey Cup rings, and no one had more CFL all-star nods. This guy was glue in that secondary, no hype, just a special player. And absolutely deserving of an "all-time" selection. Gord Rowland - Never saw him play, but I have heard whispers of the name, which is an achievement in the era of Ploen, Leo Lewis, Herb Grey, Tom Casey and the like. And those numbers are unparalleled (31 INTs!) and his recognition amongst his peers and awards puts him a step above. Listed as a "cover linebacker" which I suppose was the 1960's equivalent of today's SAM linebacker, who is a glorified defensive back covering running backs and fifth receivers. Don't have sack or tackle stats from that era, so I wish I could give a more complete analysis, but no one has more total all-star nods or Grey Cup rings.

Here are the nominees and bios for the all-time defensive halfback position. Once again, you can vote for 2 nominees. Juran Bolden - 46 games in 4 seasons (1995, 2000-01, 2007), 17 Int., 245 yards, 1 TD, 127 career tackles, 2 fumble recoveries, divisional and CFL all-star 2001 (tied for league lead with 6 interceptions, 61 tackles), Bomber nominee for outstanding defensive player in 2001 Tom Casey - 57 games in 4 seasons* (1952-55) (note that he also played a further 26 games in 1950-51, but only on the offensive side of the ball, those accomplishments not to be considered in this debate, he is expected to re-appear in the “running back” and possibly “special teams” polls), 23 Int., 426 yards, 3 TDs, 6 fumble recoveries, 25 yards, 1 TD, 3-time divisional all-star (1953-55) as defensive halfback (also 3-time divisional all-star as a running back 1950-52), led club in Int. in 3 straight seasons (1952-54) and CFL in Int. in 1953 with 7, CFL Hall of Fame Bobby Evans - 89 games in 6 seasons (1990-94, 1996), 20 Int., 215 yards, 1 TD, 7 fumble recoveries, 49 yards, 2 TDs, 8 sacks, 242 tackles, 2 time divisional all-star (1993-94), 1990 Grey Cup champion, 3 Grey Cup appearances Ken Hailey - 110 games in 9 seasons (1983-91), 27 Int. (tied #4 all-time in club history), 483 yards, 2 TDs, 5 fumble recoveries, 7 yards, 1 TD, 161 tackles from 1987-91, 3 time divisional and CFL all-star (1984, 85, 87), led club with 9 Int. for 240 yards and 1 TD in 1984, 3 time Grey Cup Champion (1984, 88, 90) Jonathan Hefney - 60 games in 4 seasons (2009-12), 13 Int., 25 yards, 6 fumble recoveries, 20 yards, 2 sacks, 241 tackles, 3 time divisional and CFLPA all-star (2009, 11, 12), 2 time CFL all-star (2009, 11), Divisional rookie of the year 2009 Gene Lakusiak - 102 games in 7 seasons (1968-74), 7 Int., 77 yards, 3 fumble recoveries, divisional all-star 1972 and 1973. Maurice Leggett - 72 games in 5 seasons (2014-18), 16 Int., 432 yards, 4 TDs, 10 fumble recoveries, 24 yards, 12 sacks, 257 tackles, tied for CFL lead with 7 Int. in 2016 (for 262 yards and 3 TDs) and 3 fumble recoveries in 2017, divisional all-star 2016, CFLPA all-star 2016 and 2017 *(both seasons as a linebacker), team nominee for outstanding defensive player 2014 and 2016 Harold Nash Jr. - 77 games in 5 seasons (1999-2003), 12 Int., 239 yards, 2 TDs, 8 fumble recoveries, 70 yards, 2 TDs, 196 tackles, divisional all-star 2001 and 2002, CFL and CFLPA all-star 2001 Vince Phason - 107 games in 7 seasons (1976-82), 21 Int., 370 yards, 1 TD, 6 fumble recoveries, 23 yards, led club in Int. in 1981 and 1982 (6 each season), divisional and CFL all-star 1982, team nominee for outstanding defensive player in 1978 Ken Ploen - 58 games in 4 seasons* (note that he also played a further 98 games in 1961-67, but only on the offensive side of the ball, those accomplishments not to be considered in this debate, he will re-appear in the “quarterback” poll), 17 Int. 216 yards, 3 fumble recoveries, 33 yards, led CFL with 10 Int. in 1959, 1959 divisional all-star as a defensive halfback, CFL Hall of Fame, 4 time Grey Cup Champion (1958-59, 1961-62) Gord Rowland - 163 games in 11 seasons (1954-64), 31 Int. #3 all-time in club history), 395 yards, 4 TDs, 9 fumble recoveries, 52 yards, 1 TD, 5 time divisional all-star (1957-58, 1960-62), 4 time divisional all-star game (1955-58), 2 time CFL all-star (1958, 1962), West nominee for outstanding Canadian 1958, 4 time Grey Cup champion (1958-59, 1961-62) Darryl Sampson - 161 games in 10 seasons (1986-95), 21 Int., 301 yards, 1 TD, 11 fumble recoveries, 66 yards, 2 TDs, 227 tackles recorded from 1991-95, 5 sacks, divisional and CFL all-star 1993, 2 time Grey Cup Champion (1988, 1990), 4 Grey Cup appearances (1988, 90, 92, 93) D-I-c-k Thornton - 69 games in 6 seasons (1961-66), 13 Int., 358 yards, 4 TDs, 6 fumble recoveries, 98 yards, 1 TD, 3 time divisional all-star (1962, 1963, 1965) and 2 time CFL all-star (1963, 1965), 2 time Grey Cup Champion (1961, 1962)

Voting ends today, and it seems certain that Rod Hill and Less Browne, the solid favorites in this category, will win out. One man's take: Hill is a no-brainer as the best Bomber corner ever. He will be returning in the special teams category as well. Browne was brilliant too, and fully deserving of the other nod. His 1990 season was one for the ages. I must say I was kind of hoping Jovon Johnson, with a solid third place finish, would have made this a closer race. When you compare the numbers, Browne's ceiling was certainly higher, but for the entirety of their Winnipeg careers, Johnson showed amazing consistency over his 6 years here, and some of his stats are eye-popping (370 tackles!). He also had more all-star nods, which shows how well he did compared to his peers over that time period. And when he earns the overall Bomber MOP, offensive or defensive, twice, that is something remarkable and unprecedented for a cornerback. In the end, Browne's overall career (CFL all-time best 87 interceptions, many of those with Hamilton) may have subconsciously played a role, as would have Johnson's decline and departure from Winnipeg (he may be as well known for his trash talk as his play - remember the year after his defensive MOP award and he records a pick against Edmonton in game one and boasts to the camera "that what happens when you throw against #2 - best player in the league" - oh yeah, the team was trailing 35-10 at that time).

I will say this - if CNN wants to shed the "fake news" label, they need to stop booking these gasbag guests like KellyAnne for their "talking panels". Get back to actual news and enough with the circus sideshow confronting known liars for "entertainment" purposes. As deplorable as Trump has been in his media attacks, his foes in the fourth estate sure do nothing to help themselves when they engage in this kind of grandstanding.

The info I gathered was slightly different. Only one CFL all-star nod (1976) and 2 divisional all-star nods (1975, 1976). 2 time team nominee for defensive MOP (1975, 1977), but never a Schenley finalist or winner. Never nominated as team MOP. Anyway, he will be listed next week.

Herosian will be placed in the safety category. Thanks all.

I actually have Herosian listed in with the group of halfbacks for this week's nominations, but I can put him in with the safeties for next week if that is more proper. Let me know the group's preference, but he will be included one way or another.

I honestly don't know, but I always thought "rover" best described what the safety position was meant to be.