TrueBlue4ever

We could go back and forth for hours on this and never agree, so I will try to answer your question this way. I believe that his apologists do not believe he is blameless, and can acknowledge his flaws. But they see the opposite extreme in his critics, that he is the ONLY one to blame, and any success is never credited to him but outside factors. So they offer excuses (or examples) where they see that his detractors have exaggerated his mistakes and ignored his contributions, and it comes off as “you can’t see how lousy he is and make excuses for him” to those detractors. Just like the excuses for any success he had being totally not his doing (he had nothing to do with Milt or Khari’s success in 2002, Streveler succeeded and got an NFL shot in spite of what LaPo did to stagnate him, rather than how he changed the offence to suit Streveler’s strengths) creates push back. For whatever reason, he is a more polarizing figure than most. Some get very offended it seems if he is referred to as an “offensive guru” and use it as a derisive term when the reality is that he has had more success than not (statistically and in team wins and losses as a co-ordinator) with his schemes but is not re-inventing the wheel, others get equally offended when he is called “the most overrated” or “loser” when he has won more than he has lost as a co-ordinator, but has a poor head coaching record, and has been better in an established program than building it up from the bottom himself. Each side criticizing or praising in moderation could give a fair picture of what he brings and lacks as a coach, but the fight goes past him and to the stances of the posters themselves, so it becomes personal and the reactions to countering opinions becomes more defiant and immovable. Fair?

I remember being more sore about the holdout he pulled with two weeks to go in the regular season, upset that he had to share the workload with Blount and Mills. Got suspended by the team for the game in Toronto which they lost, ending their 12 game win streak. Team lost the following week against Calgary and never really got its mojo back in the playoffs. Also recall that Rick Worman got away from the spread-the-ball-around offence to give Roberts more touches to placate him after the walk out, and the offensive rhythm got out of synch. I stand to be corrected in the details as I can’t find any stories on Google to corroborate, but that is how my hazy memory recalls it.

Unless you say the name “Stegall” and perhaps “Cameron” I would likely not be surprised.

I’ll apply the leeches now and await the angry pitchfork mob for the stoning. Dammit, should have gone with the old reliable “I was hacked” argument to avoid this corporal punishment.

Simple answer #1 - can sell more tickets to the pre-season game that follows and make more money than wait for the already sold-out home opener. Simple answer #2 - no one.

Quite possibly. Did not intentionally make this up, but I was mistaken on the identity. I was wrong, and concede the point.

That and his quick, unceremonious departure from the club via trade. If half of the stories are half true, then he was the opposite of a FIFO guy. Not sure what regard the club holds him in despite his on-field accomplishments. Stegall was honoured by the club multiple times for his achievements, and every 10-15 minute ceremony was “here’s a custom framed jersey, here’s a custom chair with your number on it, key to the city, Order of the Buffalo Hunt, city street named after you, new stadium gate in your honour, come christen the new stadium with Ken Ploen and Matt Dunigan in uniform, now say a few words”, and with Roberts after he set the club rushing record was a quick two minute “hey you broke the record, here’s a TV for you” announcement. But from an on-field production standpoint, he was one of the biggest stars to ever play for the team.

I agree with this analysis of ROH suitability. It is very subjective as to what the criteria should be. It has to be much bigger than HOF for me. These are the guys whose numbers would be retired if the club did that. You say #85, no question who we are talking about. Or #6, #63, #11. These are players who when you say their names, it is synonymous with Blue Bombers and nothing else. The face of the franchise, who if you (and I say “you” as the average fan, not the die hards) saw out of uniform in a crowd at the mall you would instantly know who they were. And on top of that, I think you need to accomplish something no other player before you even did, that makes you the best ever, not just best at the time. This is key for me in considering the honour. Longevity will play a role in that as the stats pile up. That’s just my take, others will have their own, and that’s fine. But for me, RIGHT NOW (not assuming where we end up at the conclusion of 2022) Bryant is the only one I say is a lock. He’s the only 3 time MOOL in history. But I would honestly have trouble picking him out of a crowd of players (such is the nature of the position) and I don’t think casual fans around the league would automatically know his number. O’Shea Is definitely tracking there, but for TODAY is doing what Grant and Murphy did before him in terms of wins and Grey Cup rings. Collaros is on par now with Clements, Jones, and Jonas with MOP awards, and even with Ploen with consecutive rings. Now, a third straight Grey Cup and second consecutive MOP changes the narrative totally for them both and fast tracks them into lock status. Bighill and Jefferson are electric players but we’ve seen that dominance and awards before from Ty Jones and Greg Battle, so until they go up I don’t consider the current guys. Hardrick is HOF but not ring to me. Demski is not in the conversation for the Ring at this point, and would be even less considered if he were not a Winnipegger. Not dumping on him by saying this, but I ask “What has he done that no other Bomber before at his position has ever done that makes him the best of the best?” And I don’t see anything objectively to answer that. Just my two cents.

It absolutely does. Maybe it shouldn’t but it does. Walby was chosen as the first member ever of the ROH over Ploen, and the club even acknowledged at his ceremony how fitting it was that a native-born Winnipegger was the first one up there. When Harris goes up there, a large part of the narrative will be how the home town guy came back specifically to end the drought and restore glory to Winnipeg.

I hear you, but at some point at injuries do need to be taken into account to establish an “elite” status. If the Rider receivers all stayed healthy, they could well have 4 1,000 receivers, but they won’t because they can’t stay on the field. That is part of what keeps them from being “elite”, that they aren’t living up to their best potential. I love Demski and had him pegged as the MOC at season’s start, but his durability has held him back a bit. I want to see him actually hit the 1,000 mark more than once before I declare him elite. But I am with you that I would not trade our core for pretty much any other team’s (maybe not even for BC’s) because the potential for greater things is sure there. Not really worth splitting hairs over what is defined as “elite”, we have a great group that is a tremendous overall unit where any one of them can step up when another is being blanketed and possibly neutralized.

Agree with this and most comments on the Rider trio. KSB is solid and if made the feature guy might become elite. Evans needs to stay healthy to get back to star potential, not sure if he’ll get back there. Williams should be better than he has performed given his size and what his ceiling was, but he is such a head care it gets in the way of everything else, and he has been living off his pre-NFL reputation when in reality he has been way sub-par since he got back. The “Nuke Laloosh” of the CFL (“million dollar hands, ten cent brain” - and frankly million dollar is way too generous, he’s worth a few thousand at peak levels). Moore is to me a lesser version of Clarence Denmark, and again injuries have derailed his progress. With the group as a whole it’s like the total is less than the sum of its parts. Not totally sure the current configuration of the Bombers is “elite” right at this moment, but the whole is greater than the sum of its individual parts for sure. Demski and Bailey you’d expect to be pushing 1,000 yards each instead of 500-600 (injuries to Demski do affect that number somewhat) so just looking at that you might think “meh”, but they both step up in clutch situations and do the little things like downfield blocking, getting open for Collaros on broken plays and not quitting, and clearing out routes for others that don’t show up on the stats sheet.

Week 18 update: this week’s playoff clinching scenarios (assuming no ties)- Winnipeg: Clinched a home playoff game. Can clinch 1st in the West with a win AND a BC loss. BC: Clinched a West playoff spot. Can finish no better than 2nd with a loss AND a Winnipeg win. Calgary: Clinched a West playoff spot Can finish no better than 2nd. No clinching scenarios this week. Saskatchewan: Can finish no better than 4th in the West. Can clinch 4th in the West with a win OR an Edmonton loss. Edmonton: Can finish no better than 4th in the West. Will be eliminated from playoff contention with a loss OR a Saskatchewan win. There are no East crossover possibilities. Toronto: Clinched 2nd in the East and a home playoff game. No clinching scenarios this week. Montreal: Clinched 3rd in the East. Can clinch 2nd and a home playoff game with a win OR losses by Hamilton and Ottawa. Hamilton: Can finish no better than 2nd in the East. Can finish no better than 3rd with a loss OR a Montreal win. Ottawa: Can finish no better than 2nd in the East. Can finish no better than 3rd with a loss OR a Montreal win. Will be eliminated from playoff contention with a loss AND a Saskatchewan win.

Always appreciate the effort and the objective view of the game, but was confused by a couple of score typos and the duplicate large swath of dialogue. Didn’t really want to re-live the lousy 3rd quarter twice. You must have written this sober. Remind me to send you an extra bottle of gin this Xmas so you have an emergency back-up on hand for national holiday writing when the LC’s are closed!

Come on. He’s recovering from injury and had a tough game. But he’s far from done. Same complaining around here as it was this season with Liegghio, Brady O, BOLO being no good and we should move on. The lack of patience sometimes borders on the silly, especially for a team that’s 13-2 and should be given some slack and a player who has a proven past track record of success on this team.

Funny that BOLO was one of the “bad roster management waste of a spot” players earlier this year for some on the site. Patience, perseverance, and opportunity has changed that narrative.

Care to revise your statement? 🤣

Anything involving math is a wasted chirp on a Rider.

Curious as to who is leading the “most different correct picks” portion of this battle should they end up tied.

And wave his arms in the air (like the refs don’t care)…….

Hey, hey, hey! Warren Burger was a respected jurist, and he objects to the term “stripper”

Now to clinch the top wildcard spot and a 3 game home series in the first round. Money, money, money.

Ok, maybe I am reading too much in to it. There can be confusion and valid questions. I have outlined the words used that seem over the top to me. I don’t think O’Shea is garbage in this area, and I don’t think Walters is displaying too casual an attitude about fixing it. That’s all. I see the same words you do, seems the loss increased the temperature a lot around here, and I don’t remember it being the hot button topic it is now when we were 12-1, even if there was more quiet concern. I certainly don’t remember this being of any concern last year, as was suggested. But my memory may be selective.

Montreal’s players vote for their captain every year as I understand it. They certainly did in past years. Do any other teams do this, and could this be a route the Jets follow. Pros and cons?

Exactly the point I was making with the doom and gloom about “garbage player management is inexcusable” and “beyond causal attitude”. Seemed over the top, but judging by some comments it feels like there is a segment who feel that loss exposed us for the longtime defensive deficiencies they have been concerned about, even since last year. Their words, not mine.

Open question for the group: Is last week’s loss: (a) just a one off, no need to overreact (b) a sign that the house of cards this team has been is now collapsing I assume there is a middle ground “c” choice (concern there) but again some of the rhetoric seems anything g but moderate. Thoughts? Was this just one bad loss, or have we finally been exposed?