Onyenegecha
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To those thinking Burke could have tackled the question of his staying better,
WIECEK: So when do you find out if you've got the job?
MILLER: My concern right now is doing what we need to do in the next month to six weeks because there's a lot that's going to happen unlike any other year.
That's how he should have answered it.
I think I like this Miller guy.
From the exact same interview:
WIECEK: One of the tools available to the CEO of a struggling sports franchise to effect change is to fire the head coach. You've kept Tim Burke on despite his team's 2-12 record this season. Why?MILLER: Because he's doing everything he can to turn it around with what he's been given.I just assumed Miller meant with what God gave him, i.e. a poor set of coaching tools.
I get you're being tongue-in-cheek, and Burke shouldn't be our head coach in 2014, but his CV from 2008-2011 would suggest God provided him with a pretty decent tool kit.
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To those thinking Burke could have tackled the question of his staying better,
WIECEK: So when do you find out if you've got the job?
MILLER: My concern right now is doing what we need to do in the next month to six weeks because there's a lot that's going to happen unlike any other year.
That's how he should have answered it.
I think I like this Miller guy.
From the exact same interview:
WIECEK: One of the tools available to the CEO of a struggling sports franchise to effect change is to fire the head coach. You've kept Tim Burke on despite his team's 2-12 record this season. Why?MILLER: Because he's doing everything he can to turn it around with what he's been given. -
There's personnel deficiencies - no one, not even members of the team, would suggest otherwise. Again, which players, or groups of players, or position, is he throwing under the bus? Or is this one of those if you hate Burke he's "throwing players under the bus" but if you like Burke "he's just telling it like it is" scenarios?
Scouting is an organizational process, not a sole GM one. I took this quote as more of a criticism of the organization than of the previous GM. The fact that we have one US scout falls on the Bombers, not on Mack.
I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just suggesting when you take what he said directly, without what the beat writers frame around his quote, he isn't exactly "losing his mind" as the thread title suggests.
The problem is that he shouldn't be saying any of this. What kind of coach makes these kinds of excuses? Even if it's true, it is unprofessional and it does have an effect on the team as well. Can you imagine Marc Trestman or Corey Chamblin making the excuse that they didn't have enough talent to work with? No chance, because they are smart and understand that the responsibility ultimately falls on them. Burke is passing the buck to the organization, the GM, and the players, but never has a damn thing to say about what he did wrong himself.
I agree with a lot of this. But this appears to be the stance the entire organization has taken. Both Walters and Miller have said the exact same things Burke has. All top organizations in all sports have one thing in common: from the owner to management to coaching, all three levels have the same vision and share the same plan on how to get there. The thing is that the Bombers vision and plan appear to be, "things were horrible before, but we're fixing them. Here's how." Unfortunately, things are still horrible at the moment.
And you're point is?? It's ok for Miller and Walters to say that...it's their job to convince the paying public what they're doing to fix an obviously bad team in certain areas. It's not Burke's job to regurgitate what he has heard them saying, it's his job to keep the players motivated and ready to play no matter what!
I think it's also pathetic that he never seems to have a clue which of his players are coming back from injury and which aren't. He always has to ask someone else. If I was HC I would want to know that every morning before I had to go to a press conference. It's called being prepared!
It's absolutely his job to get players motivated and ready to play. And he's failed at that. And I don't think he should be the head coach next year.
But when Burke (or any head coach) is asked a question, it is absolutely his job to stay on message. The alternative is to go cowboy and completely contradict what the management is saying, which would be worse.
This franchise, unfortunately, is in full-on damage control mode for the rest of 2013. They have, from top to bottom, have sent the message to their fans base: We are bad right now. We know this. And we are doing everything in our power to fix it.If you're the head coach of a 2-12 (Is it 12? I don't even know anymore. Sadly, I've checked out this year too) team and you're desperately trying to hang on to your job, now would be the absolute worst time to contradict what your bosses are saying.
He's not right, and he'll be fired. But I can't blame him for how he handled that interview.
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The people at the top though are the ones that should be saying that because that's basically their job. The coach though, his job is to get the most out of what he is given to work with and Burke has not come close to doing that. Which players are having a career year on this team? Which players are meeting or exceeding expectations?
You're confusing what Burke's duties and responsibilities as a head coach are when he's on the field with what Burke's duties and responsibilities as a head coach are when he's in front of a microphone. He has absolutely not lived up to on-field expectations; the record speaks for itself. But he is absolutely supposed to stay on message and consistent with what the two management levels above him are saying. And Burke did not say anything in this interview that hasn't already been said by Walters and Miller.
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There's personnel deficiencies - no one, not even members of the team, would suggest otherwise. Again, which players, or groups of players, or position, is he throwing under the bus? Or is this one of those if you hate Burke he's "throwing players under the bus" but if you like Burke "he's just telling it like it is" scenarios?
Scouting is an organizational process, not a sole GM one. I took this quote as more of a criticism of the organization than of the previous GM. The fact that we have one US scout falls on the Bombers, not on Mack.
I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just suggesting when you take what he said directly, without what the beat writers frame around his quote, he isn't exactly "losing his mind" as the thread title suggests.
The problem is that he shouldn't be saying any of this. What kind of coach makes these kinds of excuses? Even if it's true, it is unprofessional and it does have an effect on the team as well. Can you imagine Marc Trestman or Corey Chamblin making the excuse that they didn't have enough talent to work with? No chance, because they are smart and understand that the responsibility ultimately falls on them. Burke is passing the buck to the organization, the GM, and the players, but never has a damn thing to say about what he did wrong himself.
I agree with a lot of this. But this appears to be the stance the entire organization has taken. Both Walters and Miller have said the exact same things Burke has. All top organizations in all sports have one thing in common: from the owner to management to coaching, all three levels have the same vision and share the same plan on how to get there. The thing is that the Bombers vision and plan appear to be, "things were horrible before, but we're fixing them. Here's how." Unfortunately, things are still horrible at the moment.
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Burke doesn't deserve to keep his job. And I don't agree with most of what he says. Below is every direct quote from Burke. Please show me where he throws Mack "totally under the bus". Also, please help me figure out which specific players he threw under the bus that has you so disgusted:
“I don’t think I’ll go through any more adversity than this year,”“So if I stayed strong through this, then I’ll be a better head coach in the future. It’s easier to deal with success than it is failure."“As a team at least we’ve been competitive. We’ve gone out and given great effort. In some areas we’ve gotten better. We do have some personnel deficiencies, and some of those deficiencies are hard to overcome, so we’ll try to address those in the off-season.”“We definitely have to improve our scouting, and it just isn’t going to happen overnight,” he said. “It’s going to take two or three years to really get to where we want to get to. The first stage is to try to be a playoff team. The next phase is to be competitive towards the Grey Cup, and the third phase is to win the Grey Cup.“We’re going to have to acquire personnel that helps us get there, and we have a plan to try to get us to that first phase, hopefully within a year.”“It’s different, that’s for sure,” Burke said. “The great thing is all three of us work together well. I feel it is more of a collaborative effort, and hopefully we all hang around together and can move forward, because I think we got a great plan to move forward.”“My job is to try to help keep the team motivated,” Burke said. “I want us to go out there and play with passion and I want us to go out there and play with great effort, and I want us to try and get better as a team. If we do that, then I feel like I’ve done my job.”can't get much clearer than that
There's personnel deficiencies - no one, not even members of the team, would suggest otherwise. Again, which players, or groups of players, or position, is he throwing under the bus? Or is this one of those if you hate Burke he's "throwing players under the bus" but if you like Burke "he's just telling it like it is" scenarios?
Scouting is an organizational process, not a sole GM one. I took this quote as more of a criticism of the organization than of the previous GM. The fact that we have one US scout falls on the Bombers, not on Mack.
I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just suggesting when you take what he said directly, without what the beat writers frame around his quote, he isn't exactly "losing his mind" as the thread title suggests.
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I clearly don't agree with Burke but I don't think he deserves **** for this one. Anything he said would be ripped here. "I've been crap, definitely deserve to be canned" would get him crucified too.
well clearly the smart thing to do is not say anything.
Oh please, then we'd find something else to attack him on. Perhaps his lack of confidence in answering a question. Or why he would clearly ignore a question directly posed to him from the media.
Burke does plenty of stupid things and deserves criticism for all of them. This is not one of them. This is Troy Westwood-level criticism right here.
It's not hard to say things like "all I can do is worry about winning game this year and whatever they decide to do they decide to do" says nothing and still answers the question. Seriously this isn't complicated.
"Look, Coach Burke doesn't even care about what happens next season cause he's already checked out! Fire him now already! Him being on the team when he clearly doesn't care about what happens going forward is only going to hurt our team long-term." You're right, slamming him regardless of what he says isn't that complicated.
The fact that he didn't answer the question in the exact way you wanted him to framed perfectly to fit your expectations doesn't mean he handled it wrong.
instead he threw the fired GM totally under the bus, he threw his players under the bus and he quite frankly insulted the intelligence of everyone who follows this team by contradicting what he said before the season started. Yeah that's much better. Burke at this point is simply saying anything and everything to make excuses for himself and it is absolutely disgusting.
Burke doesn't deserve to keep his job. And I don't agree with most of what he says. Below is every direct quote from Burke. Please show me where he throws Mack "totally under the bus". Also, please help me figure out which specific players he threw under the bus that has you so disgusted:
“I don’t think I’ll go through any more adversity than this year,”“So if I stayed strong through this, then I’ll be a better head coach in the future. It’s easier to deal with success than it is failure."“As a team at least we’ve been competitive. We’ve gone out and given great effort. In some areas we’ve gotten better. We do have some personnel deficiencies, and some of those deficiencies are hard to overcome, so we’ll try to address those in the off-season.”“We definitely have to improve our scouting, and it just isn’t going to happen overnight,” he said. “It’s going to take two or three years to really get to where we want to get to. The first stage is to try to be a playoff team. The next phase is to be competitive towards the Grey Cup, and the third phase is to win the Grey Cup.“We’re going to have to acquire personnel that helps us get there, and we have a plan to try to get us to that first phase, hopefully within a year.”“It’s different, that’s for sure,” Burke said. “The great thing is all three of us work together well. I feel it is more of a collaborative effort, and hopefully we all hang around together and can move forward, because I think we got a great plan to move forward.”“My job is to try to help keep the team motivated,” Burke said. “I want us to go out there and play with passion and I want us to go out there and play with great effort, and I want us to try and get better as a team. If we do that, then I feel like I’ve done my job.” -
I clearly don't agree with Burke but I don't think he deserves **** for this one. Anything he said would be ripped here. "I've been crap, definitely deserve to be canned" would get him crucified too.
well clearly the smart thing to do is not say anything.
Oh please, then we'd find something else to attack him on. Perhaps his lack of confidence in answering a question. Or why he would clearly ignore a question directly posed to him from the media.
Burke does plenty of stupid things and deserves criticism for all of them. This is not one of them. This is Troy Westwood-level criticism right here.
It's not hard to say things like "all I can do is worry about winning game this year and whatever they decide to do they decide to do" says nothing and still answers the question. Seriously this isn't complicated.
"Look, Coach Burke doesn't even care about what happens next season cause he's already checked out! Fire him now already! Him being on the team when he clearly doesn't care about what happens going forward is only going to hurt our team long-term." You're right, slamming him regardless of what he says isn't that complicated.
The fact that he didn't answer the question in the exact way you wanted him to framed perfectly to fit your expectations doesn't mean he handled it wrong.
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I clearly don't agree with Burke but I don't think he deserves **** for this one. Anything he said would be ripped here. "I've been crap, definitely deserve to be canned" would get him crucified too.
well clearly the smart thing to do is not say anything.
Yeah, ignore a direct question from the Official Broadcaster of the CFL. See how well that goes. That would be the opposite of smart, clearly.
I get that nobody here thinks Burke should keep his job. But anyone who thinks he didn't respond to this specific question the right way is allowing their hate for Burke to cloud their judgement.
Just because we've all checked out this season, and clearly some players have checked out this season doesn't mean he has. And that speaks to him as a man, and has little to do with his competence as a head coach.
- TrueBlue and voodoochylde
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From TSN; Burke feels he deserves another season to turn things around. Blames the lack of talent on the team for this year's performance. Just about fell over when I read this:
I'm not sure what you expect him to say. Of course he thinks he deserves to stay on.
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I don't mind the trade at all, if what the previous poster said about him being under contract for three more years then it's pretty good.
I do think the riders win the trade with that second round pick. It would of been better if we swapped third round picks.
I don't hold much weight in any draft picks. Look how great our last first round picks have been playing. A starting non import is easily worth any pick.
Hall won't come back he was going no matter what. We can find someone else, the team didn't die when we dumped Odell and when Hunt left.
In the end this helps us out and Walters did OK.
...or when Vega left, or Gavin Walls, or Tom Canada, or Daved Benefield or Sefa O'Reilly. Import defensive end isn't exactly the most difficult position to fill. Especially if you're looking for a pass rush specialist.
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Higgins
Tillman
Shivers
Rita
O'Billovich
Maciocia
There's half a dozen guys with GM experience before you even get into AGM's
The day they hire Tillman is the day I spend my last dime on this franchise.
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There's a new CBA coming and the SMS is definitely going up with the new tv deal, not to mention a ninth player in free agency. Forget the Bombers issues - if I'm a solid player (forget a potential all-star NI) and my team was 12-0 right now and my agent signed an extension I'd fire him on the spot. Even fringe guys are going to get huge raises. Nature of supply and demand.
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If you haven't read the article ...
http://www.winnipegsun.com/2013/09/12/burke-on-eskimos-gm-hervey-dont-drag-anybody-through-the-junk
“I don’t think you should drag anybody through the junk,” he said.
“Obviously sometimes you can figure out who we’re talking about, like when a DB gets beat on a touchdown. And obviously when you’re talking about the quarterback, we all know who it is.
“But to actually point somebody out and say this guy’s playing like crap, I don’t think you should do that.”
All I have to say is ... is he serious? I mean, I totally agree but for Burke to say this stuff about Hervey after some of the comments he's made about guys like Washington, Elliott, etc is pretty hypocritical in my opinion.
Thoughts?
What would you have him say in reponse to the question "Your thoughts on Ed Hervey's comments?" then? Would you have wanted him to say "You know, probably not a good idea to say those things, but who am I to say that, since I called out players myself." Or would you want him to say something along the lines of "I'm not touching that." You know, like he did, the first time he was asked about that.
And I believe Burke's exact quote re: Washington was "Demond Washington will not be returning punts from now on." Yep, threw him right under the bus. And the "turnover machine" quote was as follows: "If guys are perennial turnover machines then they can’t be put in that position to play". After a game that Elliott threw 4 interceptions AND Brink lost a fumble. QBs can't be turnover machines. NOT Elliott is a turnover machine.
This is just like the "Goltz to be starter for the rest of the season" when Burke's exact words were "Goltz is our starter going forward".
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We had a blow up already a day or so ago & we fixed it ourselves. Don't need overmodding like Shankman.
God, dont even get me started on that clown. He "chased" me from the other board. I barely even go there now, let alone post.
Is he called Shankman because he likes to stab people in the back?
"This has gone way off the tracks now. We need to stay on topic. Warnings for everyone."
- Shankman
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could have picked any of a number of players on the bombers for defensive player of the week.
Markett, Ian Wild, and Bryant Turner all had big days. I wouldn't have picked Washington for the DPOTW until he absolutely killed Durant on that last sack.
I may be thinking of the wrong one, but wasn't that Marty Markett?
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This guy return kicks at all? Could they be looking for a woods replacement?
I hope they are looking for a Woods replacement....at least until Woods comes back. I know Will Ford brought that kick back for a TD...but he's no Aaron Woods.
ford doesn't even do punt returns if I'm not mistaken. That's all on Johnson and sometimes Washington.
Yeah, could someone explain that one to me please? Is it just too much work for him?
Remember the amount of trouble Ford had fielding the kickoff that he eventually ran back. Having that back there on punts would terrify me.
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I prefer Jon Cornish later in the year he will be more effective
This. Sheets is an AWESOME back. But if I had a choice, I go with Cornish first. Even without the passport, but especially with. But I do think he's the second best back in the league, with all due respect to Andrew Harris.
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I object to the internet tough guy thing... I've never claimed to be a tough guy. I'm just a truth teller, from two towns over.
There's telling the truth, and then there's telling the truth and calling the guy an asshat. I appreciate the former, not so much the latter.
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He certainly wasn't the unanimous choice to be the #1 pick, but "off the board" is probably overstated. Regardless, the correct decision was made.
I would argue taking the third-ranked player first overall is as "off the board" as taking the fourth-ranked player at his position first, which is what happened at fourth overall with Jade Etienne. Do I agree that 'off the board' is overstated? Probably, but no more than taking the fourth-best receiver (and youngest) first, and that seems to be one of the first criticisms that come up re: Mack.
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If you'll all remember Muamba was a pain in the ass to get signed intially as well. Guy was always going to be a tough sign, I don't doubt that the Bombers will show him the money, it's just whether or not he wants to stay here or if he thinks there's some other offer out there that is better.
A lot will depend if he thinks the team is on the right track to win a championship in the next 2 to 5 years. With Mack, there was no hope.
yeah sorry I forgot that Mack punches babies and kills kittens for fun.
Nah, who cares about that? He just killed the Blue Bombers. When are you going to stop apologizing for that idiot?
I hate to pull a Shankman, but this was a thread about Walters trying to re-sign Henoc Muamba, and no one brought up Mack until you did. And this isn't the first time Mack has been brought up for no reason. The same Mack who went 'off the board' to draft Henoc in the first place. Bash Mack all you want, but if he didn't have the propensity to draft against the rankings, we wouldn't be talking about re-signing Henoc, we'd be talking about how shitty Scott Mitchell has been and waiting for Philip Blake to be cut by the Cardinals.
- Atomic and comedygeek
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What ever you think of Goltz he needs to here long term. Just for the fact that he maybe the best quarterback I have seen inside the 5 yard line. Its automatic once in that area that we are walking away with 6.
I think we should give him a chance but that's a bit of a stretch don't you think? I mean, how many times have we actually made it inside the 5...? Twice in the last two games? You don't think teams are going to pick up on the play-action/QB run play fairly soon...?
At some point, maybe. But Goltz leads the league in rushing touchdowns, and he's VERY good at pulling the ball out of the running backs gut. Best I've seen since Burris. He fools the cameramen on a regular basis. I wouldn't be heartbroken if he was around as a Lefevour type where we have a set package for him as a change of pace QB who is our clear cut backup.
Alex Hall Traded
in Blue Bomber Discussion
Posted
I remember when MBB was launched and how happy everyone was that we finally had a site where forum discussion didn't eventually devolve into users attacking each other. Even the ones who are so much better than everyone else.