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You should while getting more educated on these injuries. Yep. Not a good look. He is over 1000 yards already and is a strong contender for MOP We have done that, results were not good.

...or maybe it is optimal and this whole thing is completely on Walters and recruitment. I would like to find out as well. don't get me wrong, I do not like his roster game in and game out either. My opinion after seeing numerous guys in spot duty that everyone is clamoring for such as J. Jones etc is that they really would not have any impact at all if played. However, I really do hope I'm wrong. So far this past couple years our depth has looked terrible when they get their chance. However I do agree that doing nothing isn't going to help either. Play the young guys and let's give our depth an extended look, this season was lost last week anyway.

Just not going to buy this conspiracy theory being floated. If it does turn out to be true then I will absolutely demand better. Not gonna buy this I heard it from a source that cannot be named though. I am absolutely disappointed in Bombers management and coaching for the fiasco that is happening in a Grey Cup hosting season. Just garbage that better cost jobs. Just not going to engage in piling on with rumors and innuendo. There are enough legit things to criticize without throwing here say into the mix. Apologist nope. Just think that we are not looking at the big picture here and that is the fact our player retention/attraction has been dismal, and our recruitment very average to below average. Coaching has compounded these problems, but overall roster talent is our biggest issue.

Poor management.

We could have easily afforded him in a bunch of different ways. Last year we had both Schoen and Lawler at 500+ and we made it work with a far better team than we have now. Mitchell is for all intents and purposes a bust and a complete waste of money. J.Jones appears to be the same.

I'm arguing about the impact roster usage has in our over all ability to win. You guys seem to think it makes a big impact and I don't think it would. I don't think that replacing Thomas for Woods or dressing another DL for Ayers would make a lick of difference. It is head scratching for sure, our roster usage, until I look at how poor our depth is. My biggest beef with the last 3 years on this forum is how myopic it has become. We have spent 20000 posts talking about roster slots 51 thru 53 and about 100 posts talking about the massive talent drain that's been going on. The lack of talent retention is 95% of what our biggest problem is right now and all you guys want to key in on is how we are not putting in scrubs to replace scrubs. Lets talk about how a Joey Corcoran makes our team and plays actual games because our receiving corps is hot garbage, let's talk about how our OL went from dominant to the worst in the CFL. let's talk about Chris Streveler now being our starting QB and the guy is not a CFL calibre starter. These are the reasons we will not win going forward. MOS has flaws but he has clearly demonstrated an ability to win if you give him players. Walters has not done that.

I've never stated otherwise. I have always said that MOS's roster use is not up to snuff and the fact we don't use the naturalized import is a head scratcher. Where we differ is how much of a difference it would make. I don't believe for one second we have the overall talent to do any better than what we've done so far. With Collaros out I don't expect to win more than a couple more games this year.

Shows up when it matters in a big way.

Where does it say full tear. Nowhere. You are making assumptions and trying to back it up with anonymous confidential cannot be named sources. I am going off the history of ACL injuries and how they are handled.

He got paid 275k to go to Hamilton. How much do you think we paid him last year. Clue...it was right around that mark. I get that his injury history and legal problems kept him out of the lineup, but a lot of that time he missed was not against he SMS. How many games did Lawler play each year of his contract. The reason to sign Lawler wasnt dependability, it is because he is a cheat code when he is in the lineup. Kenny Lawler is a cheat code. I dont care about his health or off field issues so long as they dont happen in the playoffs.

!00% agree on the bolded. It wont make much of a difference because Streveler is a below average QB and the guys we would play instead are ham and eggers, but your point is 100% valid. Play the strongest lineup you can. This would at least expose Walters awful GMing.

Ted Goveia was the glue that held our front office together for so many years. He was not only a bird dog for us, but was instrumental in many of our player re-signings and signings. I was very concerned when we lost him, and am saddened by this news. The Hamilton TiCats lost a very good GM, and the CFL lost one of it`s best bird dogs for talent.

Prove it. Put your money where your mouth is. Until you have proof of a full tear I will not entertain here say and I overheard it at the gym or other garbage like that. You saying it is a full tear is not supported by anything that any person would consider concrete proof. I do not believe that one of the most respected athletic therapists in the history of the CFL let a player walk onto the field with a fully torn ACL. Unless you have proof of that it is purely and 100% speculation on your part.

As he should. Kenny may be talking the talk but he is also walking the walk. The Ticats are getting full value for a contract we felt was too much. It was a mistake by Walters to let him go and there is no sugar coating it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a player knowing his worth and not being happy when his former team would not recognize it. Why should he take a slap in the face offer to stay. This is Walters missing the mark on a players valuation as he so often does.

CJ Marino needs to be out of this league. This is two QB now he has targeted with dirty hits and injured. We didn't the original Marino more rope than that. There is no place in pro football for players who behave like this.

Did they let him? Or did he not come clean to training staff until after the game? You don't know, and neither do I. Sometimes a player will hide the extent of their injury in order to keep playing. You are making the massive assumption that Schoen went immediately to the trainers and that they pulled out their portable MRI and were able to conclude it was fully torn but they put him out there anyway. Nope, not how it works. He was coming into the game with a partial tear so you expect some discomfort etc. The training staff were likely all over him after every series asking him how it felt etc. If Schoen doesn't come clean there isn't much any team can do. Players do it all the time, and a lot of guys end up in a lot of medical trouble after because they hid injuries from staff. It is football culture to do so to some extent. You are assuming that it hasn't. We are all working off of 3rd and 4th hand information that someone overheard someone mention that is a cousin of someone in the dressing room and people are eating this crap up because we are unhappy with how this season is unfolding. Wild speculation is not fact, and I have not seen a shred of reputable information suggesting that the Bombers knowingly rolled out Schoen onto the field with a fully torn ACL. None, zero, zip. If you have any links to his medical report, and comments from our training staff supporting this wild speculation I will listen. Until then this is gross rumor mongering and quite frankly nothing but a witch hunt., The pitchforks are out, and I get it they should be, but let's pull them out for the facts not conspiracy theories.

He tore it fully when he came back, it was not fully torn prior, and I agree that it isn't probably the wisest move to play a guy on a partially torn ACL but that wasn't the discussion I was having with SpeedFlex. He accused the Bombers of disregarding player safety, I took issue with that assertion. He was given the option to rehab the tear by medical staff, that is how we know it was a partial tear. Fully torn ACL is automatic surgery and quickly before the two sides of the ligament contract. No medical staff in the world would let a player go out on a full tear.

There have been many. Count how many players around the league suddenly turn up with knee braces on and you will find your answer. You are suggesting that a partially torn ligament is an automatic shut down and it isn't in many cases. A lot of guys have partial tears play out the season with a brace then have surgery to repair.

I agree on your last point, playing guys who are not near 100% is a recipe for losses. However, I think you are holding on a little too hard to a turn of phrase by a HC just trying to instill confidence in the next man up.

You are making a lot of assumptions about players health without having a shred of real information to back it up. You are suggesting that you know more about the Winnipeg Blue Bombers players health than MOS and his team of medical professionals? Look, you make a valid point about rolling out players that aren't 100%. No arguing that. However, player safety is an entirely different thing. Tons of players around this league and every pro football league play through injuries. This isn't something new. If you want to debate whether they should or not that's completely valid. If you want to debate whether the team rolling them out is violating their player safety...prove it. Show me the medical reports.

I agree let's try something. I also don't feel we will be very pleased by the results. You are going to take that literally? A coach giving his backups some confidence? Obviously there is no such thing as all number 1s.

I agree with that. However, you can`t go fullscale or you lose continuity and then you have a different reason for losing. This failure that I bolded is by far our biggest problem. We can sit here and talk about tweaking our roster all day long and none of that adds up to more wins for us unless we get better players. Simple as that. There isn`t a roster combination we can field right now that makes us serious contenders.

That is not what you heard. What you heard is the coach saying they are expected to all prepare as if they are all capable to start. Doesn`t mean they are better or even remotely as good as the guy ahead of them. It is nonsense to take something out of context like that. No team has 53 starters on their roster, and neither do we. The guys in our starting 24 are there because of either ratio or they are deemed to be the best chance to win. Some guys are very clearly not good enough to start and that's just fact. If you want to play musical chairs at positions where guys have underperformed then you are taking all continuity away and close losses will turn into blowouts. You are aware of this, you have played the game. I am all in favor of bringing in talent and trying it out, but trotting out known commodities that are not starting and hoping they do better you will be lucky if 10% actually are. It is insane to think that any of our backups if inserted on mass into the lineup will make us a contender. That is dreaming in technicolor. Fact of the matter is that if we have a crappy starting lineup, we also have either crappy or not ready players behind them. I don't think that varies at all from team to team, or sport to sport and is a pretty universal truth in all sports. Sure you might get lightning in a bottle once in a while where a guy comes off the bench out of nowhere and excels but that is the exception to the rule not the rule itself. That being said, just for the sake of opening up some guys eyes about the reality of how they are stinking up the joint we should shake up the lineup a little bit.....but it likely means a downgrade in our chance to win in the short term but long term it might wake a player or two up. It is MOS`s fault that we have no depth, haven`t you heard

Osh trust and loyalty would constitute no problem for us with proper GMing. That is undeniable because the proof is out there historically. I get that people are angry now that our talent is crap that MOS is using the same tactics and hasn't adjusted to the circumstances, and that is fair criticism. However, at the end of the day when provided the talent MOS has clearly demonstrated that he can coach a team to both win GCs and to be perennial favorites/finalists. There is no arguing that fact because it is entrenched in history. Could he have done better along the way...maybe. However, he brought us an unprecedented run of success with his style so again I ask what is truly the majority of the problem...talent or coaching? I think that it is very clear we do not have the talent....and yes what we do have is being further hampered by poor coaching decisions and coordination. I am fully in favor of firing our coaching crew if we don't make the playoffs. However, it had better come after a Walters firing or else we will just get more crap GMing. I would LOVE to see Walters replaced by Rigmaiden this offseason.

You think we have a bunch of high level CFL starters sitting on our benches? I don't. You think Person, J.Jones, Woods, Bailey elevate us to a serious contender? They are all ham and eggers. I mean seriously, is this the crux of the debate? Is this who people are clamoring for? I'm not saying any and all of them don't necessarily represent an upgrade here or there but if so it would be very little of one and certainly not enough to win us the games we are losing. No one is defending MOS's coaching but I think there are a crap load of people here leaving the true cause of our problems out of their crosshairs. When it comes to our front office/coaching this fiasco of a season is 80% Walters fault and 20% MOS and crew. Anyone saying that MOS can't win if you give him the horses hasn't been watching our last 7 seasons. We simply are outclassed in the talent department. MOS is making some crap choices too, but he doesn't exactly have a boat load of reasonable options either.