GCn20

I think if you get so much NFL time in after your draft year that the rookie amounts are null and void now? Thought I read that, maybe someone can confirm? Sorry if that's all in my head. I'm OK with that so long as our BO saving go directly to signing a top notch OL. If we can get an allstar calibre OL for the Brady savings we can easily replace most of Brady's production for a regular RB salary. The net gain in us getting a stud OL is far greater than the 300 yards more from scrimmage we will get from Brady. Fair point.

I don't think we have to fire him. He's on a year to year contract I believe. We can let him go gracefully by letting his contract simply expire.

Well don't let a little thing like facts get in the way of your BOLO rant. He wasn't competing for reps against Clercius or Corcoran. If he was you might have a point but he wasn't so your point is ridiculous. BOLO had to unseat a still in his prime Wolitarsky or Nic Demski. He could do neither because he wasn't good enough. He was given ample reps to demonstrate his potential. FULL STOP. The fact he has gone elsewhere and been just as ineffective proves that. I mean good gravy you say I have my head up my arse defending OSH, but that's not true, I just would like for a single one of the examples used against him to make a lick of sense. Is that too much to ask? FACT: In 2022, BOLO had more targets with Winnipeg than his first year in Hamilton and almost as much as this year. He put up a whopping 233 yards for those targets. FACT: In the two years since leaving here he has averaged 335 yards per season seeing almost full time receiving duty. Yea, he's the one that got away all right. Answer me this, which of our old vets in Wolitarsky or Demski would you have sat down for that outstanding level of production? Or are you suggesting we should have flipped an IMP receiving spot to NAT and sat down one of Lawler/Schoen/Bailey? I mean seriously look at that receiving corps. BOLO didn't stand a chance of making that roster as a starter because it was an elite receiving crew....but hey MOS is the bad guy for dressing his best receivers I guess. If it sounds like I'm mocking your example, I am. You could have picked from so many and you chose literally the one guy that we MOS did give chances too and didn't seize the opportunity.

BOLO? That's the guy you want to say that we held back? Have you looked at his performance since he left here? We had Americans in the way? No....we had Americans that were better and gave us a better chance of winning. You guys criticize Osh for 8-9 NAT starters but want every position a NAT backs up for them to start over an IMP. Makes no sense. Our high drafted guys were Shay and Smith, what leads you to believe they were better than any of our starting LBers? Show your work.

It is a tiny sample size in what was an exhibition game. Further to that, he wasn't high end by any stretch of the imagination. However, he did show nicely for a rookie. Who would you have taken out to put him in? What makes you believe he constituted any kind of upgrade? That's what we are talking about here. He was rostered all season, so what we are talking about is starting reps. I didn't see anything that led me to believe he deserved starting reps all season.

Who are these high end rookies not playing? Name one. Name a guy that's sitting on our depth chart now or formerly that has been good here or elsewhere.. ONE just ONE.

You can put it on Osh if you like, but the conversation is about NAT players. Who are the stud NATs we haven't been playing? For crissakes, if there were any and I mean ANY stud NATs sitting on our depth chart does anyone here honestly believe OSH wouldn't play them? The guy would start 24 NATs if he could. He was nicked up. He could've played but Osh decided to sit him. Isn't that what you criticized him ad nauseum for not doing before? Pick a lane.

I think that our recruitment in general has been very poor over the past several years. I think the only period of time we saw good recruitment with this regime was when Rigmaiden was here. Other than that not a whole lot. Look at our depth. It's pathetic.

THIS Reminds me of the dark days of our receiving corps when we were pretending Rory Kohlert was a legit receiver. Back then the Bombers had an excuse,....years of poor GMing. Hmmmm.....

Our receiving corps was as weak an any of the crap groups I can remember over the past 40 years. It really can't be overstated how much help we need there. With all due respect to Nic Demski he should not be a 1 receiver. We need to slap the guys who recruit and/or sign them.

Totally agree. You can make exceptions if you get a real good deal on a QB or something but if you have a top 3 QB salary in the league you shouldn't be paying a premium at RB. 850k in combined salary for the guys standing behind salary is a recipe for a lot weakness, or lack of depth elsewhere. We've seen it. The proof is in the pudding. The guys that are clamoring for BO saying we are nothing without him are ignoring the fact that our overall offence has sucked since the Collaros/BO mega contracts were signed. BO is an awesome RB, but he was paid almost double what the guy who lead the league in rushing this year made. We obviously can get his production or close to it for a fraction of the price. Also, and this is just a personal peeve and has no bearing on whether we should retain him or not, I really don't like that he claims to bleed blue but holds a gun to our head every time his contract expires. He totally has the right to do that, but I just don't like how he puts it out there in the media etc.

I don't care what Osh told him. Walters wears the GM title not Osh. If a RB wants 250k per year, it's up to the GM to go back to the coach and say we couldn't get a reasonable deal done, let's move to plan B. You don't blow your brains out on albatross contracts just because the coach really would like a guy back. That's nonsense.

Osh didn't negotiate albatross contracts for BO, ZC, and WJ. Let's pretend that Osh sounded his fist for those 3 guys, he didnt neg those contracts or make the final call. There is tons to criticize Osh about, ridiculous contract extension amounts aren't one of them

Hogan has to be toasted for sure and Walters has to show up for work this offseason. I strongly feel we should have fired Walters, both to change the dynamic of the GM/HC and because he oversaw the biggest bleed off of talent i can remember in a 3 year span. That being said I am a forgiving man if 2015-2019 Walters reappears I hate our salary structure over the past few years and hope we remedy that by dumping some vast overpays we have. BO, WJ, and ZC to be particular. Gonna get a lot of hate for this but I hate the BO contract and I think our team has seen a vast decline since the BO and ZC numbers skyrocketed. We cant dump Zach's contract so I think a very unpopular moving on from BO is in order.

It has become apparent that by retaining Walters that Miller may be our biggest problem football operations wise.

Hardrick and Dobson leaving are 100% on the GM. Same as Lawler. If anyone thinks that any coach didn't want 3 all stars retained they are huffing paint fumes. KW manages the money and that is the reason all 3 left. How in god's green earth is that on O'Shea? The reason they are leaving is because they were offered big money and we chose not to match it up. Being offered big money means you got played. I am now realizing you were probably being sarcastic.

Yea....I don't particularly see a rookie draft pick not getting many reps as a bad thing necessarily. Some teams do and some teams don't and I am just fine with a slow roll out if that is what a coach chooses. We have no idea whether Shay or Smith would have helped or hindered us by getting regular reps, and I don't see our LBing corps as a particular area of weakness where we had to roll the dice and find out. If the mafia are all back this year, I would hope that it is after Wade Miller has driven home that their jobs depend on better job performance this year.

Didn't necessarily have to can him, but he absolutely had to make the tough calls and let MOS know the pecking order. Exactly. Sometimes the GM has to say, Mike I don't agree with you and at the end of the day this is my call to make. MOS is a professional, I highly doubt he expected to win every argument. Lets just say that for every flaw that certain players showed and were overlooked by MOS, Walters ignored the flaws that were quite apparent with MOS. There was no bottom line.

This is exactly how I see it. I'm not happy that MOS showed far too much loyalty, but I am also not happy that Walters didn't do his job and save MOS from himself at times. IF MOS fist pounding changed Walters mind on personnel when he felt strongly the other way then he made the conscious choice to not do his job properly.

First of all citing Dinwiddie as an example is not really applicable. Pinball was hired and given the GM title in name only, He is a figurehead. His GMing is pretty much completely hands off. Murphy/Dinwiddie were doing it all for years and that was well known. There is no way a team can function with two guys having equal say. One guy has to be the bottom line or else you will miss out on more players than you get. Who they bring in is 100% final say. They sign the guys. I'm not excusing how MOS used the roster he was provided, I am simply stating the fact that some guys that were well beyond their best before were given contracts to come back or extended. That's 100% the GM's decision to make. As a GM, if you have a HC that you know is not using the talent you are providing properly then you remedy that in the offseason by taking the obstacles out of his own way. No one can force Walters to sign JT to three extensions and no one else can register that contract with the league, as an example. This isn't me trying to defend MOS, just putting the reality out there to everyone who thinks that getting rid of him solves all our problems. It doesn't. Both men need to go. They were both equally responsible for JT seeing the field this season. Walters is the bartender who is giving a drunk guy another beer when he knows he should cut him off. If you have a coach like MOS who is deathly loyal beyond reason you cannot enable him to the fault of the team.

If MOS has equal say to Walters then that is Walters failing. He is the GM, if he lets other people call the shots on his job, despite reservations he has, is he really doing his job well? I wouldn't think so. I'm not suggesting that MOS didn't have roster input, all coaches do. However, any GM that lets their HC have the final say on matters of contract and roster build that they disagree with should be fired. Simple as that. You or I, if we had a boss, could go to this person and make personell decisions? Nope. Not the way it works. We have no proof anyone else was better. None at all. Also, yes, sometimes a GM needs to save a coach from himself as part of the job. Just as MOS will/should drag his coordinators over the coals if their decisions are poor. Everyone here acting like poor Kyle did such a bang up job only to have MOS play inferior players and there was nothing he could do about it. What a crock that is. Lots he could have done about it and did not. When a coach screws up or is in the beginning of a pattern of screwing up that's on the coach. When the coaches boss allows it to happen over an extended period of time and even contributes to it by providing the personnel then it's more on him than the employee. KW has the final say, he is the GM. This nonsense going on as long as it did was a result of KW not doing his job. I'm not defending MOS here, I am simply stating that KW facilitated and allowed all of this to go on. He is every bit as guilty as MOS for Jake Thomas still playing. Every bit. All coaches have players they tend to live in the past with, most competent GMs make that player go away to save the coach from himself. The coach can only play the players the GM provides. Don't want JT playing, don't sign JT. That was always KW's choice to make.

HC has final say on how talent is assembled, GM has final say on what talent is available to the HC. That's how it works on our team, and every other team out there. Our lack of talent is 100% on the GM. We sit here and grouse about guys like Jake Thomas, but it is Kyle Walters that keeps putting contracts in front of him. Every offseason is an opportunity for the GM to get rid of or keep talent. The HC does not have any form of final say on the roster in that time. It is 100% the GM's job and responsibility as to who will be out there come June. If you know you have a player that you should move on from, even if he is a coaches favorite, it is 100% (and this can't even be disputed) up to the GM to have a tough conversation with a player and the coach who loves him and then swing the axe. It amazes me that you would think otherwise. During the season, it is tougher on the GM to do that for sure, but at the end of the day he is the boss and the HC is the employee. If that is not the way it works in Winnipeg then Walters isn't doing his job properly. This isn't some new phenomenon, for crissakes Walters signed Collaros to a 2 year extension the year after he clearly looked cooked. Is that on MOS? Not a chance. We've been talking about Thomas for the better part of 3 years now. Walters re-upped him twice. Walters hands out the contracts not MOS.

Coaches get lucky on bad decisions sometimes. Usually over the course of a career faulty logic will burn you more often than not.

GM has final say. If Walters didn't like the marine he could have released him, He's the guy that makes the call to the league office. Again, we are striving to let Walters off the hook around here. GM has final say on who is available to any coach. Just a cold hard fact. I look at all the complaints about who was rostered and still see nobody better behind them with maybe the exception of Jake Thomas. If Walters stays I hope WM gives him a very short leash because he has been Waldo for two years now. Walters CAN be a very good GM, he needs to show up to work tho. That being said, I hope we clean house.

Unless you are sitting on Wade Miller's lap the past few weeks, it would be hard to find info from anyone else imo. None that is particularly credible. There are those who are pretty good at reading the tea leaves, but I doubt anything has been discussed outside of the mafia right now. They know wassup and that is probably it. That being said, I think Atomic's post is a likely scenario.