GCn20

THIS Reminds me of the dark days of our receiving corps when we were pretending Rory Kohlert was a legit receiver. Back then the Bombers had an excuse,....years of poor GMing. Hmmmm.....

Our receiving corps was as weak an any of the crap groups I can remember over the past 40 years. It really can't be overstated how much help we need there. With all due respect to Nic Demski he should not be a 1 receiver. We need to slap the guys who recruit and/or sign them.

Totally agree. You can make exceptions if you get a real good deal on a QB or something but if you have a top 3 QB salary in the league you shouldn't be paying a premium at RB. 850k in combined salary for the guys standing behind salary is a recipe for a lot weakness, or lack of depth elsewhere. We've seen it. The proof is in the pudding. The guys that are clamoring for BO saying we are nothing without him are ignoring the fact that our overall offence has sucked since the Collaros/BO mega contracts were signed. BO is an awesome RB, but he was paid almost double what the guy who lead the league in rushing this year made. We obviously can get his production or close to it for a fraction of the price. Also, and this is just a personal peeve and has no bearing on whether we should retain him or not, I really don't like that he claims to bleed blue but holds a gun to our head every time his contract expires. He totally has the right to do that, but I just don't like how he puts it out there in the media etc.

I don't care what Osh told him. Walters wears the GM title not Osh. If a RB wants 250k per year, it's up to the GM to go back to the coach and say we couldn't get a reasonable deal done, let's move to plan B. You don't blow your brains out on albatross contracts just because the coach really would like a guy back. That's nonsense.

Osh didn't negotiate albatross contracts for BO, ZC, and WJ. Let's pretend that Osh sounded his fist for those 3 guys, he didnt neg those contracts or make the final call. There is tons to criticize Osh about, ridiculous contract extension amounts aren't one of them

Hogan has to be toasted for sure and Walters has to show up for work this offseason. I strongly feel we should have fired Walters, both to change the dynamic of the GM/HC and because he oversaw the biggest bleed off of talent i can remember in a 3 year span. That being said I am a forgiving man if 2015-2019 Walters reappears I hate our salary structure over the past few years and hope we remedy that by dumping some vast overpays we have. BO, WJ, and ZC to be particular. Gonna get a lot of hate for this but I hate the BO contract and I think our team has seen a vast decline since the BO and ZC numbers skyrocketed. We cant dump Zach's contract so I think a very unpopular moving on from BO is in order.

It has become apparent that by retaining Walters that Miller may be our biggest problem football operations wise.

Hardrick and Dobson leaving are 100% on the GM. Same as Lawler. If anyone thinks that any coach didn't want 3 all stars retained they are huffing paint fumes. KW manages the money and that is the reason all 3 left. How in god's green earth is that on O'Shea? The reason they are leaving is because they were offered big money and we chose not to match it up. Being offered big money means you got played. I am now realizing you were probably being sarcastic.

Yea....I don't particularly see a rookie draft pick not getting many reps as a bad thing necessarily. Some teams do and some teams don't and I am just fine with a slow roll out if that is what a coach chooses. We have no idea whether Shay or Smith would have helped or hindered us by getting regular reps, and I don't see our LBing corps as a particular area of weakness where we had to roll the dice and find out. If the mafia are all back this year, I would hope that it is after Wade Miller has driven home that their jobs depend on better job performance this year.

Didn't necessarily have to can him, but he absolutely had to make the tough calls and let MOS know the pecking order. Exactly. Sometimes the GM has to say, Mike I don't agree with you and at the end of the day this is my call to make. MOS is a professional, I highly doubt he expected to win every argument. Lets just say that for every flaw that certain players showed and were overlooked by MOS, Walters ignored the flaws that were quite apparent with MOS. There was no bottom line.

This is exactly how I see it. I'm not happy that MOS showed far too much loyalty, but I am also not happy that Walters didn't do his job and save MOS from himself at times. IF MOS fist pounding changed Walters mind on personnel when he felt strongly the other way then he made the conscious choice to not do his job properly.

First of all citing Dinwiddie as an example is not really applicable. Pinball was hired and given the GM title in name only, He is a figurehead. His GMing is pretty much completely hands off. Murphy/Dinwiddie were doing it all for years and that was well known. There is no way a team can function with two guys having equal say. One guy has to be the bottom line or else you will miss out on more players than you get. Who they bring in is 100% final say. They sign the guys. I'm not excusing how MOS used the roster he was provided, I am simply stating the fact that some guys that were well beyond their best before were given contracts to come back or extended. That's 100% the GM's decision to make. As a GM, if you have a HC that you know is not using the talent you are providing properly then you remedy that in the offseason by taking the obstacles out of his own way. No one can force Walters to sign JT to three extensions and no one else can register that contract with the league, as an example. This isn't me trying to defend MOS, just putting the reality out there to everyone who thinks that getting rid of him solves all our problems. It doesn't. Both men need to go. They were both equally responsible for JT seeing the field this season. Walters is the bartender who is giving a drunk guy another beer when he knows he should cut him off. If you have a coach like MOS who is deathly loyal beyond reason you cannot enable him to the fault of the team.

If MOS has equal say to Walters then that is Walters failing. He is the GM, if he lets other people call the shots on his job, despite reservations he has, is he really doing his job well? I wouldn't think so. I'm not suggesting that MOS didn't have roster input, all coaches do. However, any GM that lets their HC have the final say on matters of contract and roster build that they disagree with should be fired. Simple as that. You or I, if we had a boss, could go to this person and make personell decisions? Nope. Not the way it works. We have no proof anyone else was better. None at all. Also, yes, sometimes a GM needs to save a coach from himself as part of the job. Just as MOS will/should drag his coordinators over the coals if their decisions are poor. Everyone here acting like poor Kyle did such a bang up job only to have MOS play inferior players and there was nothing he could do about it. What a crock that is. Lots he could have done about it and did not. When a coach screws up or is in the beginning of a pattern of screwing up that's on the coach. When the coaches boss allows it to happen over an extended period of time and even contributes to it by providing the personnel then it's more on him than the employee. KW has the final say, he is the GM. This nonsense going on as long as it did was a result of KW not doing his job. I'm not defending MOS here, I am simply stating that KW facilitated and allowed all of this to go on. He is every bit as guilty as MOS for Jake Thomas still playing. Every bit. All coaches have players they tend to live in the past with, most competent GMs make that player go away to save the coach from himself. The coach can only play the players the GM provides. Don't want JT playing, don't sign JT. That was always KW's choice to make.

HC has final say on how talent is assembled, GM has final say on what talent is available to the HC. That's how it works on our team, and every other team out there. Our lack of talent is 100% on the GM. We sit here and grouse about guys like Jake Thomas, but it is Kyle Walters that keeps putting contracts in front of him. Every offseason is an opportunity for the GM to get rid of or keep talent. The HC does not have any form of final say on the roster in that time. It is 100% the GM's job and responsibility as to who will be out there come June. If you know you have a player that you should move on from, even if he is a coaches favorite, it is 100% (and this can't even be disputed) up to the GM to have a tough conversation with a player and the coach who loves him and then swing the axe. It amazes me that you would think otherwise. During the season, it is tougher on the GM to do that for sure, but at the end of the day he is the boss and the HC is the employee. If that is not the way it works in Winnipeg then Walters isn't doing his job properly. This isn't some new phenomenon, for crissakes Walters signed Collaros to a 2 year extension the year after he clearly looked cooked. Is that on MOS? Not a chance. We've been talking about Thomas for the better part of 3 years now. Walters re-upped him twice. Walters hands out the contracts not MOS.

Coaches get lucky on bad decisions sometimes. Usually over the course of a career faulty logic will burn you more often than not.

GM has final say. If Walters didn't like the marine he could have released him, He's the guy that makes the call to the league office. Again, we are striving to let Walters off the hook around here. GM has final say on who is available to any coach. Just a cold hard fact. I look at all the complaints about who was rostered and still see nobody better behind them with maybe the exception of Jake Thomas. If Walters stays I hope WM gives him a very short leash because he has been Waldo for two years now. Walters CAN be a very good GM, he needs to show up to work tho. That being said, I hope we clean house.

Unless you are sitting on Wade Miller's lap the past few weeks, it would be hard to find info from anyone else imo. None that is particularly credible. There are those who are pretty good at reading the tea leaves, but I doubt anything has been discussed outside of the mafia right now. They know wassup and that is probably it. That being said, I think Atomic's post is a likely scenario.

Yes we could use a guy like Drew Desjarlais back. Maybe Manu frees up....lol.

Not sure. There are some every year though. Last year alone we lost two in FA.

Yep, that being said we need to add two stud NATs imo.

Seems to be for sure. I don't think we replace Collaros this year because there doesn't seem to be many options and he has a large portion of his salary guaranteed. However, I think our QB room behind him is getting a massive shake up. I don't see Streveler or Wilson back.

It all depends how willing we are to free up cash elsewhere. We saw the Riders OL go from hot garbage to pretty good in an offseason. No reason we can't do the same. What we will need to do is cut some dead weight salary though. Jefferson/BO buys some nice beef along our lines. I don't give a crap that BO has been our supposed heart and soul. He is a RB and RBs are expendable if a team needs to free up cash. I will add the caveat though, one that has escaped KW over the past few years, that if you are cutting ties with an all star NAT it better be to bring another one in.

If we get a new GM/HC their philosophy likely changes and we will see a ton more departure than just those three areas. Player here in the secondary/QB/RB, on STs, in depth are all here because they fit the mold of what we were looking for. I would not be surprised at all to see a new GM come in and immediately change our pay structure at many positions....RB for example. If we get a pass happy coach especially a player like BO may be deemed a luxury but not a must have....and honestly I'm ok with that.

OK that's fair. They are connected at the hip. Bottom line tho, if KW does his job he reigns in MOS. For all intents and purposes are criticisms of MOS are in one area, roster building. A good GM would have cracked the whip on that based on results and MOS's mistakes would not be happening over years. KW at the end of the day is his boss, like any employee MOS needs a boss to keep him on point not a boss who lets him do whatever he wants. If a boss allows an employee to do whatever they want and repeat mistakes are they a good boss? Do they deserve the benefit of the doubt even if it is the star employee? I would rather get rid of a bad boss than an employee who was given no direction.

Sorry you are butt hurt that someone doesn't believe completely unsubstantiated rumors from an anonymous internet poster. I believe someone putting their actual name to something, and citing their sources, 100000x more than a guy who claims to have inside access but is wrong more often than he is right when he cites it. You have not given me, or any other person here, any reason to believe you with anything more than a "trust me bro". You might have these amazing connections to the team you brag about, but you just as easily might be full of ****. Both are likely, with based on the history of team forums, the latter being 100x more likely. You are an anonymous person on a fan forum claiming to have inside the locker room knowledge. If you think that I am alone on my skepticism over your claims you are mistaken. I am just a member willing to put my skepticism out there. Don't take it personal, it's just that you have provided nothing to back up your insider knowledge claims therefore we have to go off your accuracy level when citing it and it isn't great.