GCn20

CJ Marino needs to be out of this league. This is two QB now he has targeted with dirty hits and injured. We didn't the original Marino more rope than that. There is no place in pro football for players who behave like this.

Did they let him? Or did he not come clean to training staff until after the game? You don't know, and neither do I. Sometimes a player will hide the extent of their injury in order to keep playing. You are making the massive assumption that Schoen went immediately to the trainers and that they pulled out their portable MRI and were able to conclude it was fully torn but they put him out there anyway. Nope, not how it works. He was coming into the game with a partial tear so you expect some discomfort etc. The training staff were likely all over him after every series asking him how it felt etc. If Schoen doesn't come clean there isn't much any team can do. Players do it all the time, and a lot of guys end up in a lot of medical trouble after because they hid injuries from staff. It is football culture to do so to some extent. You are assuming that it hasn't. We are all working off of 3rd and 4th hand information that someone overheard someone mention that is a cousin of someone in the dressing room and people are eating this crap up because we are unhappy with how this season is unfolding. Wild speculation is not fact, and I have not seen a shred of reputable information suggesting that the Bombers knowingly rolled out Schoen onto the field with a fully torn ACL. None, zero, zip. If you have any links to his medical report, and comments from our training staff supporting this wild speculation I will listen. Until then this is gross rumor mongering and quite frankly nothing but a witch hunt., The pitchforks are out, and I get it they should be, but let's pull them out for the facts not conspiracy theories.

He tore it fully when he came back, it was not fully torn prior, and I agree that it isn't probably the wisest move to play a guy on a partially torn ACL but that wasn't the discussion I was having with SpeedFlex. He accused the Bombers of disregarding player safety, I took issue with that assertion. He was given the option to rehab the tear by medical staff, that is how we know it was a partial tear. Fully torn ACL is automatic surgery and quickly before the two sides of the ligament contract. No medical staff in the world would let a player go out on a full tear.

There have been many. Count how many players around the league suddenly turn up with knee braces on and you will find your answer. You are suggesting that a partially torn ligament is an automatic shut down and it isn't in many cases. A lot of guys have partial tears play out the season with a brace then have surgery to repair.

I agree on your last point, playing guys who are not near 100% is a recipe for losses. However, I think you are holding on a little too hard to a turn of phrase by a HC just trying to instill confidence in the next man up.

You are making a lot of assumptions about players health without having a shred of real information to back it up. You are suggesting that you know more about the Winnipeg Blue Bombers players health than MOS and his team of medical professionals? Look, you make a valid point about rolling out players that aren't 100%. No arguing that. However, player safety is an entirely different thing. Tons of players around this league and every pro football league play through injuries. This isn't something new. If you want to debate whether they should or not that's completely valid. If you want to debate whether the team rolling them out is violating their player safety...prove it. Show me the medical reports.

I agree let's try something. I also don't feel we will be very pleased by the results. You are going to take that literally? A coach giving his backups some confidence? Obviously there is no such thing as all number 1s.

I agree with that. However, you can`t go fullscale or you lose continuity and then you have a different reason for losing. This failure that I bolded is by far our biggest problem. We can sit here and talk about tweaking our roster all day long and none of that adds up to more wins for us unless we get better players. Simple as that. There isn`t a roster combination we can field right now that makes us serious contenders.

That is not what you heard. What you heard is the coach saying they are expected to all prepare as if they are all capable to start. Doesn`t mean they are better or even remotely as good as the guy ahead of them. It is nonsense to take something out of context like that. No team has 53 starters on their roster, and neither do we. The guys in our starting 24 are there because of either ratio or they are deemed to be the best chance to win. Some guys are very clearly not good enough to start and that's just fact. If you want to play musical chairs at positions where guys have underperformed then you are taking all continuity away and close losses will turn into blowouts. You are aware of this, you have played the game. I am all in favor of bringing in talent and trying it out, but trotting out known commodities that are not starting and hoping they do better you will be lucky if 10% actually are. It is insane to think that any of our backups if inserted on mass into the lineup will make us a contender. That is dreaming in technicolor. Fact of the matter is that if we have a crappy starting lineup, we also have either crappy or not ready players behind them. I don't think that varies at all from team to team, or sport to sport and is a pretty universal truth in all sports. Sure you might get lightning in a bottle once in a while where a guy comes off the bench out of nowhere and excels but that is the exception to the rule not the rule itself. That being said, just for the sake of opening up some guys eyes about the reality of how they are stinking up the joint we should shake up the lineup a little bit.....but it likely means a downgrade in our chance to win in the short term but long term it might wake a player or two up. It is MOS`s fault that we have no depth, haven`t you heard

Osh trust and loyalty would constitute no problem for us with proper GMing. That is undeniable because the proof is out there historically. I get that people are angry now that our talent is crap that MOS is using the same tactics and hasn't adjusted to the circumstances, and that is fair criticism. However, at the end of the day when provided the talent MOS has clearly demonstrated that he can coach a team to both win GCs and to be perennial favorites/finalists. There is no arguing that fact because it is entrenched in history. Could he have done better along the way...maybe. However, he brought us an unprecedented run of success with his style so again I ask what is truly the majority of the problem...talent or coaching? I think that it is very clear we do not have the talent....and yes what we do have is being further hampered by poor coaching decisions and coordination. I am fully in favor of firing our coaching crew if we don't make the playoffs. However, it had better come after a Walters firing or else we will just get more crap GMing. I would LOVE to see Walters replaced by Rigmaiden this offseason.

You think we have a bunch of high level CFL starters sitting on our benches? I don't. You think Person, J.Jones, Woods, Bailey elevate us to a serious contender? They are all ham and eggers. I mean seriously, is this the crux of the debate? Is this who people are clamoring for? I'm not saying any and all of them don't necessarily represent an upgrade here or there but if so it would be very little of one and certainly not enough to win us the games we are losing. No one is defending MOS's coaching but I think there are a crap load of people here leaving the true cause of our problems out of their crosshairs. When it comes to our front office/coaching this fiasco of a season is 80% Walters fault and 20% MOS and crew. Anyone saying that MOS can't win if you give him the horses hasn't been watching our last 7 seasons. We simply are outclassed in the talent department. MOS is making some crap choices too, but he doesn't exactly have a boat load of reasonable options either.

Your take of my take is a crap take. You are delusional if you think we have the talent to win here. GMs do the signing of players not coaches. You are so hell bent on blaming MOS for our crappy roster that you have lost all objectivity. You have MOS tunnel vision and he is to blame for everything. That is not the reality,

Coaching to some degree is to blame, but players taking stupid penalties, losing the ball, you gotta hang a big part of it on the players too. It's easy to say that let's replace Jake Thomas with Woods, and then replace Vaval with Houston and we will win.....but that's not reality. Our problems go much deeper than coaching, and roster usage. We don't have the horses this year. No roster usage, or amount of coaching is going to get us over that hump. We could have a couple more wins this season if we clean up mistakes that players made though. I'm sorry but Cam Allen whiffing on every tackle he attempts is not on coaching, our secondary being unable to cover man is not on coaching, our hogs on the OL getting schooled by every DL is not on the coaching .....or at least primarily. At what point do we stop talking around here like we have a championship calibre club that is being misused. We are talent defiicient. Coaching can help cover that up, but it will always result in a poor record. When half your starters wouldn't start on more than a couple teams besides us that is talent deficiency. We have too many gaping holes in our lineup where we are starting guys that are not performing well but are performing about as well as one would expect.

A LOT less mistakes. You are right, doesn't have to be mistake free but we are committing turnovers and taking penalties like the 2022 RoughRiders. The issues they have are in a big part because of a lack of talent.

2019 team vs this one is definitely not a good comparison. I agree. The 2019 team could play bully ball and this year we are getting pushed around.

We don't have the talent. Mistake free football is a pipe dream. Championship teams have the horses to overcome their mistakes.

get in the playoffs and anything can happen, but even that is looking really tough to do.

It is not insane in any way. I am not sure what you are watching. His pass mechanics and accuracy are well below average. That isn't a function of poor protection or scheme. He is a backup QB, that can bring a different look to an offence a few times a game. If we are using him for more than that, we likely won't win much. His arm strength is just fine. I will trust the coaches to make the right call on him because it's impossible for us, as fans, to know what this guy has got or doesn't have.

I would have signed Lawler over Schoen. You know that. I think not re-signing Lawler this offseason was an idiotic move by our GM. 100% Yep...the Elgersma train has got to be picking up steam now. Strev is not good enough of a passer for this league. Either we use him more effectively or our season is over. Dropping him back in the pocket hoping he can execute the offence is wishful thinking. Hogan needs to design something for a QB with a below average arm but can run.

That's just a start, Booch would be a helluva busy guy because I would want the whole thing torn down.

Without Collaros I have almost no hope we are in the playoffs. Streveler is not a starting quality QB. Anyone arguing differently is drinking Booch's Kool aid. Are we seriously questioning the knowledge/integrity of our medical staff? Do any of you guys have a hot clue how many athletes play through partially torn ACLs? Some even voluntarily have gotten them removed Eg. Marve. It is a completely manageable injury with a brace.

I will agree that our O and D coordination has a lot to be desired. Our roster usage could be a lot better but realistically isn't losing us games. Contributing for sure, but if we had the talent level and the schemes in place we would like the last several year, be grousing about it on a first place team with a couple losses at this point. I would love MOS to use the designated IMP rule, I would love to see a tweak here or there in our lineup. Do I think it's why we are losing? Nope. Just making it harder to win. When I look at the difference between 2019 or 2021 and this team I see a vastly different amount of talent and quality depth. That's 90% of our problem right now. We have bled talent. Anyone suggesting that the answer is in house is dreaming in technicolor. Kyle Walters had to have a make it or break it offseason this year, and he had probably his worst offseason yet.

Bridges was awful, and he was replaced. Giving Allen big kudos seems wrong to me. He has not been all that good. He has whiffed on many coverages and tackles over the past few games and taken some very costly penalties as well. I think we could do better, and need to get better at his spot as well. You are making the assumption that Person, a rookie, was ready to go game one. I would not make that assumption and am not going to flog any coach for waiting until a player is both physically and mentally ready to compete. Person has looked OK, not great, but I would tend to think the coaches wanted to give him more time to adjust to the Canadian game before throwing him out there. In preseason he was having a hard time with the yard off the ball and some other nuances of our game. As he gets more used to it, his impact will grow. Woodby same thing likely. Just needed time to learn the nuances in practice, study film, learn how to react and play in the Canadian game. Once they were ready they got their shot. Not sure why ppl think that rookies not playing serious reps until game 8 is out of the ordinary, or a coach not identifying talent. Talent is great but talent has to be game ready. Bridges was a head scratcher but his first 2 games he played great and that is likely why he got more rope than he should have. Allen is no prize either tho. Dave Ritchie used to say for every rookie you add to your starting lineup you can pencil in 1 loss to go with that. That is not an exaggeration. Throwing raw rookies into the mix is not an optimum solution. You want to be able to slow play their roll out if possible. None of the guys you have mentioned are talented enough that they jump off the page. Sure some rookies can come in and play like all stars. They are the very small minority of rookies and certainly not any of the guys you have listed.

My argument is sound. Lack of talent is hurting us more than roster deployment. It is both. However, one far outweighs the other in impact and that is my entire point. We have 600 pages and 10000 posts focusing on roster moves 51 thru 53 of our lineup and about 1 page and 60 posts talking about the real problem. All because of a few posters agenda to blame MOS. While he is not blameless, the impact of his decisions are grossly over exaggerated on this forum. Now it is at the point where MOS is getting blamed for poor scouting, and poor offseason contact negs/FA signings and that is 100% on the GM. Look, I'd like to take the tact of dumping on MOS for his poor roster usage around here too but I feel the guy needs defending from the pitchforks being pointed at him for things entirely beyond his control and that was my point. Not that MOS is blameless, but we are blaming him for poor GMing and that's over the top.

Are Person, Allen, and Woodby not getting their chance now? Sometimes you gotta wait your turn on the depth chart, and that is on every football team ever. Suggesting it was some huge mistake that Person, Woodby, and Allen never played is nonsense. They worked hard, earned their chance, and are now in the lineup. You've got a problem with the way Kyrie Wilson has played? He has been very good this year. So has Tony Jones. Our linebacking crew is not the problem with our team right now. Could it be better? Maybe....but let's talk about what is losing games. Lack of talent and depth at other position groups.