Rids
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What's the policy around here for posting information or details for football camps? Didn't want to "spam" the board or step on toes.
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They did take Alex Krausnick in the expansion draft. Injuries hampered him last year and likely led to him being left unprotected in the expansion draft but he did start the 9 games that he was in the roster.
I wouldn't want to count on a guy who was considered a downgrade from Justin Sorensen myself.
Not to nitpick but Edmonton lost Krausnick in the expansion draft two months before signing Sorensen. Not really a direct result of an initial transaction.
Gord Hinse has previously been the Eskimos starting Center and is a year younger than Sorensen. Brian Ramsey is in tough for the role as the old vet (34 years old) but I suspect that it was Krausnick's injuries more than Sorensen's potential availability that led to him not being protected.
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They did take Alex Krausnick in the expansion draft. Injuries hampered him last year and likely led to him being left unprotected in the expansion draft but he did start the 9 games that he was in the roster.
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Technically they don't call Major Junior a professional league but a situation where players receive benefits solely because they are part of those teams. Equipment, monthly stipend, their hosts get reimbursed financially and they get a scholarship fund once they leave the CHL.
In Daniel Glauser's case if he had played 2 games at any NCAA/NAIA/CIS school before moving to JuCo and then transferring to FSU he'd be in exactly the same boat, the level of play doesn't matter. He'd also be out of luck if he had gone to a CIS school after his JuCo years based on his age. FSU should've looked into it and been honest with him or he should've known after talking to his JuCo coaches. Especially the ones at NMMI that deal with so many international players as it is.
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And every one of them is based on a previous experience where some school exploited an opportunity. It's kinda like those warnings on a toaster that tell you not to use it in a bathtub or a shower or stick a fork in there to get the last crumb out - it's because some idiot tried it once.
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Because the CIS allows 5 years instead of the 4 commonly associated with college sports.
That said basically every CIS player in the draft has at least a year and in some cases two CIS years available to them if they want. The changes were more in place to save teams from using a first round draft pick on a NCAA player that is going to return to school and then be drafted into the NFL the following year. Call it the Danny Watkins Rule if you like.
The NCAA rules don't allow for players to really explore their professional options, they are allowed to request a draft grade from the NFL and then make a decision to return for their senior year or enter the draft. However they aren't allowed to attend things like the CFL Combine. In the past players that had been drafted were allowed to talk to the team that owned their rights.
Both the CIS and NAIA rules allow players to talk to CFL teams, attend the combine and then return to school.
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Well how well did Rambo's scouting system work in Hamilton when Desjardins hired him there. Rambo had the hear of Hunt in Ottawa and got Desjardins hired there. I guess we'll see how it goes there now. Scouting ultimately is in the eye of the beholder. Napkins , 16 mm film, VCR it isn't the technology or the resources it is the evaluator.
This is true that it comes down to the evaluator.
Honestly you can run a scouting department with an excel spreadsheet and submitted word doc reports to a shared online Google drive. It would cost you 10 laptops, 10 hotspot devices and the travel to go see 1000 players each off season. However the advantage to signing up for a service like this one is that you gain 15 years of history with a click of a button. The hours of research saved likely equal out to the cost of the service. Your GM doesn't have to dig around trying to find a proper contact for the player or who they are currently represented by or dig deep to find out if their representation is certified for the CFL. You can check to see their previous playing and testing history from a reliable source (40 yard dash time clocked by a reliable source vs crazy Uncle Leo is a valuable tool!!).
If I've had players send me false information, you can only imagine what pro teams get from these players. Especially the ones bordering on desperation for their final shot at playing in the League which turns into desperation to playing in any League.
I talked to a Dallas Cowboys scout once that was contacted by a receiver that was two years out of school. This receiver played at a good D2 school, had a reasonable career and playing resume. Included in what he sent to the scout was a workout tape showing marked improvement in his bench press and overall testing numbers. The 40 time in there showed the stopwatch on the screen to prove the time. So they brought him in for a workout. Turns out his great dash time was actually clocked at 37 yards instead of 40. Needless to say he didn't get an offer.
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Check in with CFL Daily's thoughts on the Draft - http://cfldaily.ca/2014/04/03/cfl-draft-ranking-the-top-eligible-players/
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The system isn't a standardized scouting program. That word standardized showed up in this thread.
The Dan Rambo organization has a database with 110,000 players in it with their playing history, agent contact info and it's updated on a daily basis with the most recent transactions. On the other side of the program teams can log in from anyplace in the country. The scouts are able to input their thoughts, grades and details on players they've seen while the general manager can log in and check on where they are at for reviewing players. I've known some individuals that have worked for FBXchange but haven't seen all of the new capabilities on the team management side yet. Not sure if scout A submits a report on a player if scout B can see that report or only the GM.
Every tryout brings 60 to 85 players out. Players pre-register so you have an idea of 95% of the players that will be there ahead of time (some late additions always). Using a program like this you can put all these player names into a list and print them out so you can see their backgrounds.
Then tie in the scouting combines where you'll get to see another 100 to 150 at a time and you can take the top testers and add them into a list as well. Some of the mobile options are really interesting (although some of the locations make any sort of internet connection next to impossible).
There are quite a few programs similar to this. Some are bare bones that you purchase (one time fee vs monthly cost) and then have to populate, some are nice that let you upload/download from an excel file, basically some are better than others. FBXchange is designed by somebody with a solid knowledge of what the CFL teams need which is a pretty nice feature all in itself.
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From what I have observed over the years, most CFL coaching staffs won't be scared off by his lack of production/play-time in the CIS... in fact, CIS production has been shown to have very little impact on draft position. It seems to me that most CFL teams just want the best athletes and believe that they can coach them up into real football players. I'm predicting second round for Thibault.
Pretty much, and that's not a whole lot different than the NFL or NHL. Ideally a guy has both, but you're going to draft a receiver who was good in 1 on 1's at the combine and ran 4.6 who had 300 yards last season over a guy who had 1000 yards but ran a 5.0 40 and had trouble getting separation from the best CIS DB's in 1 on 1's at the combine.
Thibault is enough of an athlete that he might be able to play field corner if he can't figure out safety, but teams will have some idea of his football IQ from the interviews.
This is a clear cut situation but the case for Thibault isn't that clear cut. In fact his Laval teammate fulfilled your scenario. Yannick Morin-Platte who was the fastest guy at the 2012 East-West Bowl. Career production 31 GP 50 receptions 576 yards 3 TDs, had a great CFL Combine but couldn't make the Stampeders after being a 3rd round draft pick. Goes back to Laval and puts up another 150 or so receiving yards again.
It's a guy that's put in a lot of work in the weight room and on the training field but doesn't fit a role on the football field. Not a starting receiver, not a starting safety, not a starting cornerback. So what is he? I believe he'll be drafted and likely 2nd or 3rd round but does he make the team or the PR? If he makes the team does he do more than cover kicks?
You all know a player's CIS production will not give him any edge at all moving into the CFL. This isn't like the NFL-NCAA relationship in any form. Every NFL player personnel guy could tell you a handful of things about Johnny Manziel during the season last year and probably about his last game, how many CFL player personnel guys could tell you anything about Billy McPhee or how his season was going last year? Or, since it's the CFL, Laurent Duvernay-Tardif - they all knew who he was but did they know how McGill played that Saturday? If you can't produce at the lower level there will be a question mark about being able to produce moving up. The CFL isn't a step faster than the CIS it's 3 or 4 steps in most cases.
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Last year the CFL season finished with 19 Non-Imports playing in the defensive secondary. Out of those 19, 14 of them were safeties and back up safeties. The other 5 were 4 back up corners and a back up defensive halfback.
So where does Thibault fit into that grouping?
His career numbers at Laval:
30 games played
16 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles (10 in his SR year when he was playing D; 4 as a FR/SO likely on special teams)
3 Tackles for Loss, 1 Sack, 2 Passes Broken Up, 2 Forced Fumbles, 1 Fumble Recovery
23 receptions for 230 yards and 1 TD.
2 kickoff returns for 52 yards; 10 punt returns for 45 yards
Testing he's got first round potential, production wise he's not even draftable, the combination of the two = ?
Very athletic kid but where do you play him?
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Thibault used to be a wide receiver. Still has great speed for a NI receiver and is used to playing special teams.
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Rids: what's your take on Smith? Where do you project him?
Well it depends on how teams see him. As a OG I believe his value is higher than as a DT. Only 2 teams started a DT last year and neither of them have their starters from 2013 (Edmonton - Ted Laurent; Sask - Keith Shologan) but BC does have Westerman and a quality back up could push him into a starters role.
As a OG to finish the 2013 season 14 of the 16 starting spots were occupied by non-imports. Quinn Smith did very well as a OG at the CFL Combine against the best DL competition. So if they project him as a OG he's potentially a first round pick. As a DT then he's probably a second round pick.
On paper he tested better than the Concordia LBs even though his production numbers are fairly low. Perhaps he was a bigger factor into Max Caron's gaudy tackling numbers than anybody previously expected.
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Duane Forde said Bombers didn't have a rep.
What he probably should have said was "I'm not sure if the Bombers have a rep" because let's be honest, he's not going to recognize everybody that goes to these things.
It's not hard to ID those in attendance as they all have to sign in to be there.
That's the Argos Chris Rossetti there on the left.
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The Evaluation Camp is always about offensive linemen. When isn't it? Be nice if one year we could talk about something else like the incredible linebackers that dominated or receivers instead of always offensive linemen.
When 45% of the leagues non-imports are playing on the OL it makes drafting those positions a major focal point.
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It's true that only 20 to 25 players from any given draft go on to CFL careers lasting 3 seasons or more. However part of the reason behind that is that in CIS you need players at all 24 positions but in the CFL if you don't have NI depth you have no need for any NIs at that position.
That is especially visible on defense. Most teams line up with 5 NI starters on offense (3 OL, 2 R) and then slide in 2 on defense (many cases it's a DL and S). 67% of all the non imports in the 2012 CFL season were OL and receivers. Doesn't leave a lot of room for players in other positions.
Even though there were 27 starting middle linebackers last year in the CIS there's no need for any of them unless they can shift to WLB as primarily all of the MLB and SLBs in the CFL are imports. But there was also 27 starting WLBs and SLB in the CIS so there's 81 starting linebackers looking for spots on 9 teams except there aren't 81 spots available. In the 2012 season there were 4 Non-Imports that made the starting line up as linebackers and 21 others on the 46 man rosters around the league. That made up for 14.37% of the total NIs in the league that season. Moving that forward you've got 25 spots available (albeit most on special teams) with a turnover of approximately 30% a year making it 7.5 spots available each off season.
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I'd like to see the minimum salary get closer to what a player would make on an NFL practice roster, which I believe is around $100k. Minimum CFL salary now is around $60k.
Minimum salary last season was $45K.
The way to develop the players is to expand the working day. If the working day was given an extra 90 minutes and the salaries adjusted to reflect that it would be a win win. The teams would likely be able execute a better developed gameplan and players would see their salaries improve in the meantime while hopefully being able to reach their performance bonuses thanks to better play.
I'd like to see a 10 player practice roster (minimum 4 NI) all season long with a bump to 12-14 players after Labour Day.
One of the biggest reasons why finding NIs is so difficult is that after the training camp season most move onto regular day jobs and are no longer close to game shape. The next year some of those players will work towards getting back to training camp shape so the number of available NIs during the spring goes back up + all the draft year players that are trying for a pro career (roughly 800 to 850 players per year on the draft list - not all are continuing in football and only about 100 of those are pro quality but around 200 will be available for camps).
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I always thought that Steven Turner would've been a great NI kick returner. Injuries and opportunities hampered him though.
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Very few NI get an opportunity to return kicks for some reason. Marco Iannuzzi is one of the very few that come to mind in the past 3 or 4 years. Anybody else come to mind for anybody else?
And I mean return more than 15 kicks to be really considered.
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Hey Rids ... quick question for you.
What's the deal with Aaron Picton and Sam Sabourin? I thought they were draft eligible but they're not attending the combine. Any reason?
Actually, while we're at it ... what's the deal with Karl Lavoie as well?
Aaron Picton is out. Got it sorted out this afternoon and have to fix my list. Under the old rules he would've been part of this draft class but under the new rules he's part of the 2015 Draft. Now he did have the opportunity to enter this draft like Anthony Coombs did but chose to delay.
Sam Sabourin by all accounts should be 2014 Draft as he suited up as a freshman. As to the combine you need at least 3 CFL teams to request you to attend before they extend an invite. I would've suspected that he would've received that but perhaps it's a little gamesmanship going on. I think he's likely a 3rd round pick maybe even as high as late 2nd (picks #16 through 27)
I don't see Karl Lavoie on the opening day roster in 2010 but will dig in a little more on him.
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Well he's been the #1 prospect all year. All he can do is hurt his #1 status by attending the CFL Combine so if he doesn't go then the only thing that can drop him is the NFL interest.
I'm not a fan of the move but do understand it from an agent viewpoint.
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It is rumored that they will post it again this year.
They used to do it until 2009 I believe but then stopped because agents were going through the list and trying to get the kids to sign up with them.
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Lavertu has NFL aspirations. He could be another Mulamba which we can't afford... He's not even going to the CFL Evaluation Camp. He's having his own Pro Day. That kind of sends alarm bells off for me. Maybe we draft Goosen who is rated Top 5 (I believe) as we need OL badly. This is one time I'm glad we have Walters with the last word on who we draft now.
Laurent Duvernay-Tardif has NFL aspiration and is doing his own pro day. Not Lavertu. Looks like Ottawa will now take Lavertu with the Bombers likely (in my opinion) taking Goossen.
Lawless said Walters told him his top 3 picks are Duvernay-Tardif, Lavertu, and OL David Foucault. So in all likelihood it will be one of those 3.
Laurent Duvernay-Tardif - NFL interest and NFL opportunity. Skipping the CFL Combine. If no NFL offer appears likely returns to McGill for a 5th season.
Pierre Lavertu - likely returns to Laval for another season
David Foucault - currently making his rounds through the NFL Regional Combines.
Other OL options:
Mattias Goosen - can play C or G at the CFL level. Can't return to school so he's available for rookie camp in May.
Aaron Picton - experience playing RT but likely a RG in the CFL
Adam Hughes - to take him second overall is a big reach but could be a consideration later as a 6'5" LG that could play the right side too.
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I hadn't seen his July addition to the 46 man roster but also haven't seen his release either. So I went looking:
July 18th he was added to the 46 man roster
July 25th he was taken off the 46 man roster and then added to the non-active roster
No other mentions for Brett Carter beyond that. Actually surprised that there aren't more guys named Carter in the league.
http://www.cfl.ca/transactions-2013
With the potential upcoming changes to CJFL rules there's a lot of doubt and wonder as to who will be eligible this year. By attending a regional combine I'm guessing that a CJFL career is pretty low priority on Carter's radar. You may know more about his plans that way than I do.
Rids, please post more often. That is all.
I'm almost at 30 posts....isn't that enough?
Posting Football Camps
in General Discussion
Posted
Prospect Spotlight event in Saskatchewan (the only Canadian stop for Prospect Spotlight this year) going July 14 & 15 from football players in the Classes of 2015 to 2020. These are exposure camps that will have CIS and NCAA coaches in attendance.
This two day overnight camp will feature 3 on field sessions and a 7v7 tournament and Lineman Challenge event.
They are working on setting up transportation from Winnipeg to Caronport in some manner. If there is enough interest then there is a charter bus lined up but need 50 bodies on the bus (trying to keep costs down for people). Otherwise will look into a van or something for a smaller group.
https://canadafootballacademy.launchtrack.com/register/saskatchewan-prospect-spotlight-canada/information