17to85

That's actually an idea I would really get behind. He did a lot of the OC work in 2000 did he not?

NO! I can not stress this enough. Don't hire a coordinator expecting them to be the next head coach. How the **** has that worked out for this team the last times they've done it? Daley, Burke, disastrous. Hire the best OC for the team right now and if OShea gets fired midseason then just ride out the year cause the year is already ****** anyway and do a full search for a new head coach in the offseason. Didn't say it was the right thing to do Dave but, money will always be the driving force with the BOD and if they can save a few bucks on severance, they will. bullshit. I guarantee that thought hasn't even entered their heads because they aren't entertaining the idea that they would all fail. Isn't O'Shea going into the last year of his contract anyway? So if they fired him there's only the pay out until the end of the season anyway. This is just some nonsense fans cook up because they think they're being smart. They aren't.

What is that argument? Asking in good faith -- I'd really like to see Cortez in blue but all I'm going on is the numbers and the couple times I watched his Jennings O late last season. Very curious what you see / hear. Is it an X's and O's thing? Is it an interpersonal thing? Something else? Mike likes to shun the old guard and hop on the bandwagon of the up and commers?

Yeah, but we have the Miller-Walters-O'Shea Flaming Hoop Of Mediocrity. The other franchises may be question marks, but our missing the playoffs again is basically guaranteed. The sentiment was actually "If we can't elevate ourselves let's drag everyone else down to our level"

NO! I can not stress this enough. Don't hire a coordinator expecting them to be the next head coach. How the **** has that worked out for this team the last times they've done it? Daley, Burke, disastrous. Hire the best OC for the team right now and if OShea gets fired midseason then just ride out the year cause the year is already ****** anyway and do a full search for a new head coach in the offseason.

probably. Never understood why the idea exists that format flips are the answer for a radio station losing ratings...

After wandering around the MLCCs last weekend man do I ever feel sorry for you Manitobans. That selection is just sad. There is some good stuff don't get me wrong but the options are so limited. Getting some more local breweries going will help a ton but man oh man... Maybe we're more spoiled here being so close to BC but yikes you guys are limited so badly. That being said there was some stuff at Barley Brothers that we don't see out here that makes me sad. Mostly stuff from Ontario that hasn't migrated out here yet. It's sort of a shame that Fort Garry was sold to Russell Brewing company... Russell has some stuff that I really want to like but it just seems a bit underwhelming to me and I fear Fort Garry might suffer the same mediocre fate. At least Half Pints is solid. I like what they're doing there.

I could see the locals in Sask turning on Jones quick if things don't go well. His attitude is basically a big **** you to all things media or reaching out and I can't see that playing well in that market.

Wasn't he even just the receivers coach not the qb coach? Seems like Wally is pretty surly in his old age.

You should. The CFL is a constantly evolving league. Would you want Wally Buono as a head coach these days? I sure wouldn't. Why? Because the game has passed him by, and there's an argument to be made that the same thing has happened to Cortez. Cortez wouldn't be my first choice. Like I said ... if Willy likes him enough, fine. But I'm wary of hiring him. Given that Cortez wasn't exactly a one off successful OC, he's been around forever and ran good offenses forever I think he has demonstrated an ability to adapt to a constantly evolving league. Maybe he's just getting too old for this ****... but I won't question his ability to keep up with the times. He's got as proven a track record as you can ask for, including with our current starting qb so he'd be in the top group of my wishlist for sure.

Do the Esks hate the Riders as much as we do? Yes, yes they do. Doesn't everyone hate the Riders? This should be in the league positioning statement somewhere....F*** those guys. I got their new marketting campaign right here.....

teams aren't even giving the Bombers permission to talk to them, that tells me at least 2 teams are worried about guys leaving for Winnipeg. Try again with the doom and gloom, this try failed.

wait and see what shakes down with the head coaching positions league wide and then we will see the ability to talk to more guys.

Jones has always had say over who he gets on D.

I put most of the troubles of this team on the plate of the talent as opposed to the coaching that's the big difference here. Stats are flawed, you should know that. Use your eyes, you can see the D did enough to win games with any kind of support, but they didn't get it. You and I both know that you can't win with just defence in the CFL. Edmonton had arguably the best D in the league but they still had an offense that was capable of doing something. Hamilton had another of the top defenses but when Collaros went down their winning ways left pretty quick too right? No defense will consistently win games for a team, they might win a few but none will carry an offense as sad sack as the Bombers for more than a handful of games. To me Bellefeuille was the only coach that was flat out terrible and he's gone now. Now it's up to them to hire a good candidate at the position and get some more talent for the existing coaches to work with. Stats are a good starting point, not the be all and end all. Defenses have won lots of games. Edmonton's defense won most of the games that Reilly didn't play in. Hamilton's defense won games for them too and almost won them the eastern playoff. BTW: Hammy lost way more than just Collaros they were down to their 4th string QB by the end of the year. I can't argue that MB is a terrible coach. I blame O'Shea for hiring him in the first place and for not firing him after his first season. I agree that we need to upgrade the talent level on offense. I blame Walters for that because he's the one in charge of providing the talent. To me MB, Tracey and Etch were all terrible coaches and they were all hired by O'Shea. Here is where we disagree, I understand why they opted to keep Bellefool (I disagreed with the move last offseason). They thought they could spend on the OL and improve protection and didn't want to give Willy yet another offense to learn. That's not horrendous logic and better talent is always going to help an offense no matter who the coach is. It didn't work and they fired Bellefool so it's not like they don't see where issues are, they just don't make the instant moves some people want.

the Lions had a gimpy Lulay at qb who could barely throw and then had to use a bunch of rookies... not exactly a recipe for consistent offense.

Defense was our strength but not a strength when compared to the other teams. We ranked 8th in most of the big stats. Comparing O'Shea (.333 wins) to Burke (.250 wins) isn't the comparison that we need to do. We need to compare O'Shea to the other HC's in the league right now and he doesn't fair well at all. That's a tired argument that I absolutely do not like. Statistics are like a bikini, what they reveal is tantalizing but what they conceal is vital. Here's what I know from watching the games... there were a hell of a lot of games that were winnable with even an average offensive output, we didn't get that. We were lucky in a lot of games to even get a good quarter out of the O let alone a good game. It's the CFL afterall, sometimes you still have to be able to score your way out of trouble, our team failed to do that. The D wasn't perfect but it was good enough and if they can get some better DL I'd have no trouble seeing them get better without too much trouble. You're comparing O'Shea to one of the worst HC's we've ever had. Sure, he's better than Burke but who cares? Unless he's better than the HC's of the teams ahead of us and that's 7 teams, it won't matter much. You're tired of using stats because they don't work in your favor. I watched the same games and I saw a defense that gave up a ton of yards and a ton of first downs and that wasn't just after they got tired. They couldn't get themselves off the field very often. The best thing they did was force teams into FG's instead of TD's but that wasn't enough for us to beat any of the top 5 teams. Of course we need a better offense and we're all hopeful that a new OC will be able to give that to us but it's not the only problem on the team. I put most of the troubles of this team on the plate of the talent as opposed to the coaching that's the big difference here. Stats are flawed, you should know that. Use your eyes, you can see the D did enough to win games with any kind of support, but they didn't get it. You and I both know that you can't win with just defence in the CFL. Edmonton had arguably the best D in the league but they still had an offense that was capable of doing something. Hamilton had another of the top defenses but when Collaros went down their winning ways left pretty quick too right? No defense will consistently win games for a team, they might win a few but none will carry an offense as sad sack as the Bombers for more than a handful of games. To me Bellefeuille was the only coach that was flat out terrible and he's gone now. Now it's up to them to hire a good candidate at the position and get some more talent for the existing coaches to work with.

rabble rabble rabble! NO WINS!!11!!! you aren't interested in reasons you made up your mind to see everything as negative it's not worth wasting words trying to convince you because you don't like to listen to anything other than your own whargarbl TRANSLATION: I have no basis for my position, I just like to sound self-important and pick internet fights. And when challenged to justify my position with facts or sound reasoning rather than just hot air, I ignore the question and turn my attack to the poster rather than addressing the post itself in an attempt to hide my ignorance. This shtick is old. Either back it up and contribute something meaningful to the debate, or go away quietly. Either way, spare us the arrogant "I'm too busy and smart to explain myself to the lesser-minded out there" B.S. No I'm just dropping down to that particular posters level. Have you ever seen him post anything after a win? He only shows up to ***** and moan and never provides any substance. Some people simply aren't worth the time or effort and deserve only derision.

Did they really? after the first 2 touchdowns in the Grey Cup the Esks D made them look pretty ordinary. Easy to be an OC when you don't have any injuries on the offense, but the good defenses could still shut that team down.

rabble rabble rabble! NO WINS!!11!!! you aren't interested in reasons you made up your mind to see everything as negative it's not worth wasting words trying to convince you because you don't like to listen to anything other than your own whargarbl

I made the mention that Eddie Steele and Don Oramasionwu made some plays early in the Grey Cup game, nothing like local boys stepping up in the home town. I'd agree that they should try and get more locals to a point. Can't just go all local because, but if guys are close go local.

Defense was our strength but not a strength when compared to the other teams. We ranked 8th in most of the big stats. Comparing O'Shea (.333 wins) to Burke (.250 wins) isn't the comparison that we need to do. We need to compare O'Shea to the other HC's in the league right now and he doesn't fair well at all. That's a tired argument that I absolutely do not like. Statistics are like a bikini, what they reveal is tantalizing but what they conceal is vital. Here's what I know from watching the games... there were a hell of a lot of games that were winnable with even an average offensive output, we didn't get that. We were lucky in a lot of games to even get a good quarter out of the O let alone a good game. It's the CFL afterall, sometimes you still have to be able to score your way out of trouble, our team failed to do that. The D wasn't perfect but it was good enough and if they can get some better DL I'd have no trouble seeing them get better without too much trouble.

I'd take Cortez with the game passing him by before Lapo who never had much game to start with.

The reality is that we hired inexperienced people so I am willing to give them a chance to learn on the job as long as they're not a complete clusterfuck (which they aren't) Yes I have more patience than you, but being impatient hasn't worked for 25 years why not try a different approach this time? I wasn't calling for O'Shea's or Walters heads at the end of last year because they were rookies who were learning on the job. (I didn't think they should have been hired in the first place, but that's another story.) They weren't rookies this year and they provided even worse results. Walters had a lot of good ideas. I like the way he revamped the scouting department and the way he hired more people, but he didn't staff it properly so it hasn't provided the results it should have. I like the idea of hiring more coaches, but I didn't like the choices. I like the idea of keeping our draft picks, but I don't like his drafting. I like that he's been busy in free agency and is willing to spend to get players to come to Winnipeg, but I don't like that he can't tell who's good and who's bad unless they've already played in the CFL (Ex: QB's/backup). Basically, I like the ideas but the execution isn't there. He's had 2.5 years to improve and I don't see much if any improvement. I liked O'Shea the player and O'Shea the special teams coach. I didn't like him as a rookie HC or as a sophomore for that matter. I think that 2 years is enough to figure out if he has it or not and he's come up way short. It shouldn't take total incompetence in all areas of the job to fire him. Missing the playoffs both years should be enough. This isn't the first time we've given a GM a 3rd year. Joe Mack was given 3 and a half. I remember arguing with you, 17, that he should be fired when we missed the playoffs in 2012. IIRC you said that we needed to bring him back for another year for consistency, so no, we aren't trying something new this time. Were doing what we usually do... Hiring inexperience and then keeping them too long when they aren't working out. The only thing we haven't done yet is extend a losing HC so they won't be a 'lame duck' then pay them to be a TSN coach instead of ours. That could still easily happen in the offseason. Look if Joe Mack hadn't give Tim Burke the head coaching duties he woulda been around a lot longer. O'Shea is a much better coach than Burke. Walters has his work cut out for him I've already said that, but there's really no harm in sticking with these guys for another year. A lot of the problems this past season stem from the offense and given that Willy was out most of the year and they've fired the offensive coordinator who is known to be less than stellar at the job I would suggest that it's not too much of a stretch to think the offense will be improved next season.

Let's all recall that Muamba took a long time to get signed when he was drafted and that the Bombers offered him a crap ton of money to extend his deal before he tried the NFL. Guy has always been motivated by money. Why didn't he sign here? Well 9 teams wanted to sign him and only 1 could, he opted to go with the deal Montreal offered for whatever reason. I won't shed too many tears though. We aren't exactly lacking at the linebacker position and guys like Muamba who are so motivated by money aren't the ones you build around anyway. He's a great player without a doubt but there are plenty of great players out there, we just need to find some more of them. Westerman is a pretty good star Canadian, get another guy like that from somewhere.