The Unknown Poster Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Avoids arbitration. Frolik will be UFA July 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 One year??? Come on. Of all our players, Frolik was one that is worth overpaying to keep around long term. Chevy bungled this one hard. With a one-year deal, Frolik will be gone at the deadline or we will lose him for nothing after this year. What a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 One year??? Come on. Of all our players, Frolik was one that is worth overpaying to keep around long term. Chevy bungled this one hard. With a one-year deal, Frolik will be gone at the deadline or we will lose him for nothing after this year. What a waste. Did you just get off the phone with Chevy? Good. Please explain how he bungled it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 He didn't sign Frolik to a long term deal. Bungled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 He didn't sign Frolik to a long term deal. Bungled. I imagine Chevy calling Frolik in for a friendly meeting. The lights in his office are dimmed. It's late at night. Frolik walks into the office and Chevy swings around in his chair slowly and leans across the desk, pushing a contract towards his player. Frolik looks at it and immediately rejects it. "Im sorry you feel that way Michel" as four goons appear from the shadows and overwhelm the young hockey player. When he regains conscious, Frolik is somewhere in the bowels of MTS Centre, strapped to a chair, electrodes on his genitals. Chevy circles him omminously. "What do you want?" Frolik asked nervously. Chevy smiled "You know what I want. I want a long term contract. And you will sign." I guess Chevy could have done that. Thats how deals are done. Players sign long term contracts because fans demand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Without knowing what kind of money he was holding out for you can't just blame Chevy. If they were asking in the 5M range and wouldn't back down, then sometimes walking away can be a better move then just signing someone and handcuffing your team long term. I would take Frolik in the 4M range. Much more and it is too much. blitzmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Without knowing what kind of money he was holding out for you can't just blame Chevy. If they were asking in the 5M range and wouldn't back down, then sometimes walking away can be a better move then just signing someone and handcuffing your team long term. I would take Frolik in the 4M range. Much more and it is too much. Exactly. Some hockey fans really dont get it. It's Chevy's fault when guys are signed to long term deals because we gave up too much money or term or both. It's Chevy's fault when guys sign short term contracts. Apparently its even Chevy's fault when Atlanta signs Buff to a contract and he ends up as a 3rd line winger and hybrid D man on the Jets. People need to get a grip. Assuming the Jets and Frolik were apart on money/term enough that it wasnt going to get resolved before arbitration, then whats the alternative? That they go into a nasty hearing, get a one year deal anyway and then the relationship is soured? I want Frolik signed for four years as much as the next guy but Chevy is far more knolwedgable about these matters than I am. He's got the player to a contract and bought time for negotiations. blitzmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Kulemin just got over 4M per year and Frolik puts up the same point production and far better defensive play. Derick Brassard just got 5M per year and his best season is 47 points... in 2010-11. He put up 45 last year. So you can either look around the league and say "OH, well those are just bad deals!", or you can recognize that this is the new reality of the league. We are sitting on 10 million+ in cap space and the cap is only going to go up. But feel free to continue making excuses for why it is IMPOSSIBLE for Chevy to sign players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Kulemin just got over 4M per year and Frolik puts up the same point production and far better defensive play. Derick Brassard just got 5M per year and his best season is 47 points... in 2010-11. He put up 45 last year. So you can either look around the league and say "OH, well those are just bad deals!", or you can recognize that this is the new reality of the league. We are sitting on 10 million+ in cap space and the cap is only going to go up. But feel free to continue making excuses for why it is IMPOSSIBLE for Chevy to sign players. So did Chevy tell you himself that Frolik asked for what Kulemin got and the Jets said no? Of did Frolik tell you that? I havent seen it reported anywhere what the terms were other than Lawless (I believe) said both sides were talking 5 year deal but ran out of time before arbitration deadline. So whats the bad news year? That we didnt over-pay? That we didnt get a one year arbitration deal after a nasty hearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Kulemin just got over 4M per year and Frolik puts up the same point production and far better defensive play. Derick Brassard just got 5M per year and his best season is 47 points... in 2010-11. He put up 45 last year. So you can either look around the league and say "OH, well those are just bad deals!", or you can recognize that this is the new reality of the league. We are sitting on 10 million+ in cap space and the cap is only going to go up. But feel free to continue making excuses for why it is IMPOSSIBLE for Chevy to sign players. Yup, Chevy hasnt been able to sign any players. Not Ladd. Not Bogo. Not Wheeler. Not Kane., NONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 The bad news is that it is a one-year deal and Frolik will be gone after this season. Unless you believe that they are actually going to continue negotiating and work out a long term deal during the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Kulemin just got over 4M per year and Frolik puts up the same point production and far better defensive play. Derick Brassard just got 5M per year and his best season is 47 points... in 2010-11. He put up 45 last year. So you can either look around the league and say "OH, well those are just bad deals!", or you can recognize that this is the new reality of the league. We are sitting on 10 million+ in cap space and the cap is only going to go up. But feel free to continue making excuses for why it is IMPOSSIBLE for Chevy to sign players. Yup, Chevy hasnt been able to sign any players. Not Ladd. Not Bogo. Not Wheeler. Not Kane., NONE! Hey you forgot Thorburn... wow, Chevy is really on a roll! I guess his vision for the team is "Keep as many Thrashers here as possible, for as long as possible." Nobody else can have a long term deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 The bad news is that it is a one-year deal and Frolik will be gone after this season. Unless you believe that they are actually going to continue negotiating and work out a long term deal during the season As opposed to what, a one year deal and he's gone after the season anyway? How is a one deal and he's gone after the season worse than a one deal and hes gone after the season? Use some common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Kulemin just got over 4M per year and Frolik puts up the same point production and far better defensive play. Derick Brassard just got 5M per year and his best season is 47 points... in 2010-11. He put up 45 last year. So you can either look around the league and say "OH, well those are just bad deals!", or you can recognize that this is the new reality of the league. We are sitting on 10 million+ in cap space and the cap is only going to go up. But feel free to continue making excuses for why it is IMPOSSIBLE for Chevy to sign players. Yup, Chevy hasnt been able to sign any players. Not Ladd. Not Bogo. Not Wheeler. Not Kane., NONE! Hey you forgot Thorburn... wow, Chevy is really on a roll! I guess his vision for the team is "Keep as many Thrashers here as possible, for as long as possible." Nobody else can have a long term deal. So signing Ladd, Wheeler, Kane, Bogo etc were bad ideas? Good God some people shouldnt be allowed to be hockey fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 The bad news is that it is a one-year deal and Frolik will be gone after this season. Unless you believe that they are actually going to continue negotiating and work out a long term deal during the season As opposed to what, a one year deal and he's gone after the season anyway? How is a one deal and he's gone after the season worse than a one deal and hes gone after the season? Use some common sense. I don't even get what you're trying to say here. Get your thoughts straight and get back to me. I would have liked to see a deal LONGER than one year. What is so hard to understand about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Kulemin just got over 4M per year and Frolik puts up the same point production and far better defensive play. Derick Brassard just got 5M per year and his best season is 47 points... in 2010-11. He put up 45 last year. So you can either look around the league and say "OH, well those are just bad deals!", or you can recognize that this is the new reality of the league. We are sitting on 10 million+ in cap space and the cap is only going to go up. But feel free to continue making excuses for why it is IMPOSSIBLE for Chevy to sign players. Yup, Chevy hasnt been able to sign any players. Not Ladd. Not Bogo. Not Wheeler. Not Kane., NONE! Hey you forgot Thorburn... wow, Chevy is really on a roll! I guess his vision for the team is "Keep as many Thrashers here as possible, for as long as possible." Nobody else can have a long term deal. So signing Ladd, Wheeler, Kane, Bogo etc were bad ideas? Good God some people shouldnt be allowed to be hockey fans. Yeah you're right. When you want to improve a team, the best way is to keep all the same players as the team that was no good the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 The bad news is that it is a one-year deal and Frolik will be gone after this season. Unless you believe that they are actually going to continue negotiating and work out a long term deal during the season As opposed to what, a one year deal and he's gone after the season anyway? How is a one deal and he's gone after the season worse than a one deal and hes gone after the season? Use some common sense. I don't even get what you're trying to say here. Get your thoughts straight and get back to me. I would have liked to see a deal LONGER than one year. What is so hard to understand about that? Ill type it slower for you. If Frolik wasnt going to sign a long term deal, then this isnt on Chevy. He cant make a player sign. So the alternative is to go into arbitration which everyone says is usually nasty and gets a one year deal anyway. So instead of that, Chevy agrees to a friendly deal with both sides retaining the option to keep talking. According to Lawless, they were negotiating a five-year deal. So lets presume that means both sides wanted to sign a long term deal but ran out of time. Now Frolik has the leverage because the closer we get to next season the more likely he is to want to test free agency. But if Frolik likes Winnipeg and the opportunity here then its the devil he knows. If he has a poor season, he hurt himself. if he has a great season, he helped himself. That stuff is just money. What we dont know is why they didnt sign a five year deal. Ofcourse I wanted a long term deal. But do you really think long deals just happen because you want them to? be emotional if you want to but your anti-Chevy bias is showing. blitzmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 The bad news is that it is a one-year deal and Frolik will be gone after this season. Unless you believe that they are actually going to continue negotiating and work out a long term deal during the season As opposed to what, a one year deal and he's gone after the season anyway? How is a one deal and he's gone after the season worse than a one deal and hes gone after the season? Use some common sense. I don't even get what you're trying to say here. Get your thoughts straight and get back to me. I would have liked to see a deal LONGER than one year. What is so hard to understand about that? Ill type it slower for you. If Frolik wasnt going to sign a long term deal, then this isnt on Chevy. He cant make a player sign. So the alternative is to go into arbitration which everyone says is usually nasty and gets a one year deal anyway. So instead of that, Chevy agrees to a friendly deal with both sides retaining the option to keep talking. According to Lawless, they were negotiating a five-year deal. So lets presume that means both sides wanted to sign a long term deal but ran out of time. Now Frolik has the leverage because the closer we get to next season the more likely he is to want to test free agency. But if Frolik likes Winnipeg and the opportunity here then its the devil he knows. If he has a poor season, he hurt himself. if he has a great season, he helped himself. That stuff is just money. What we dont know is why they didnt sign a five year deal. Ofcourse I wanted a long term deal. But do you really think long deals just happen because you want them to? be emotional if you want to but your anti-Chevy bias is showing. The five-year deal was on the table, so why didn't it get done? That's all I'm saying. You're absolutely right that Frolik now has the leverage. If he wasn't going to sign a five-year deal now, what is going to change to make him want to sign it in January? What if he is still unsigned by the trade deadline? Now we're in a tricky spot... do you move him or risk losing him for nothing? Are we expecting Frolik to have a bad year (where he will almost certainly be in the top 6 and producing points)? That's the only way I can see us giving him LESS money than what he was asking for right now... and I just don't see it happening. As far as an anti-Chevy bias goes, I actually liked him in the first couple years, but this off-season has really soured me on the job he is doing. I just look at what he has accomplished and think "Ugh", because I know we're in for another year out of the playoffs. I know he is trying, and I know it is probably hard to attract players to Winnipeg. But he has to do more to improve the team. Every team in the league is drafting good players every year... that can't be the only way to build your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Have you ever negotiated a contract? It can take time. And they didnt have any more time left. It was either sign a one year deal with a positive agreement to keep talking or go into a potentially nasty arbitration hearing with the chance of hindering the relationship for good. Frolik's agent has said talks were very positive. They simply ran out of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 The bad news is that it is a one-year deal and Frolik will be gone after this season. Unless you believe that they are actually going to continue negotiating and work out a long term deal during the season As opposed to what, a one year deal and he's gone after the season anyway? How is a one deal and he's gone after the season worse than a one deal and hes gone after the season? Use some common sense. I don't even get what you're trying to say here. Get your thoughts straight and get back to me. I would have liked to see a deal LONGER than one year. What is so hard to understand about that? What he's saying is that going to arbitration would have had the same result as this one year deal. So why would Frolik have agreed to the deal if that's the case? The arbitrator would most likely have given him more money. My guess is that they are continuing to work on a long term deal and both parties agreed to not leave it in the hands of the arbitrator. The circumstances are so odd that little else makes sense. The amount is low to give them flexibility when the come up with terms for an extension. It's against the CBA to reduce salary when a contract is renegotiated, so $3.3 means they can change the structure pretty easily because they aren't tying their hands right off the hop. Given the pieces of the puzzle that we are aware of, this seems like the most logical answer. blitzmore and The Unknown Poster 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Here is the problem ... on a good team, Frolik is a very strong 3rd liner, who can play top 6 when there are injuries. Great penalty killer who can chip in offensively. On a team like the Jets, he gets to play on the top 6 all the time. If you pay Frolik like a top 6, you will never get to be a good team because your money is wrapped up in a player who probably shouldn't be there. So yes, a deal could have gotten done, but is it the deal you really want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Here is the problem ... on a good team, Frolik is a very strong 3rd liner, who can play top 6 when there are injuries. Great penalty killer who can chip in offensively. On a team like the Jets, he gets to play on the top 6 all the time. If you pay Frolik like a top 6, you will never get to be a good team because your money is wrapped up in a player who probably shouldn't be there. So yes, a deal could have gotten done, but is it the deal you really want? I think that's a little extreme! One right-winger making an extra million is going to cripple our team? I don't think so. Maybe I could see if we had some players knocking on the door making their way into our top 6, I could agree. But we don't have anyone like that. Our best forward prospects, Petan and Ehlers, are still a couple years away. If Lowry or Lipon come up, they are not top 6 players, not right now and probably not for awhile. I just don't see the downside of signing Frolik to a five-year deal. He is going to be worth it. How far apart could they really be? Is it worth risking losing him altogether to save 500k, or even 1M? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 i think the hold up is probably Frolik's agent wanting to get paid like the player is being used. So in that sense, yes a top six player. On the other hand, as stated, in a perfect scenario, Frolik is an excellent third line player, special teams etc. the Jets probably accept the reality of Frolik as a top six but over 4-6 years they dont want to pay him like that because they hope he moves down as the team gets better. Thats probably what complicated things. Additionally, Frolik has to be mindful of what he wants. He wants that opportunity to contribute more and not just be an excellent bottom six player on a loaded team. In Winnipeg he gets every opportunity to be all that he can be. And I suspect that appeals to him very much. Both sides have said they want a long term deal. I would bet they get that done in the new year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Well I hope you're right. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Wow, cheap. I would have liked to see a 3-4 year deal but whatever works... Frolik should have gone to arbitration - he would have got a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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