Pretty historic.  Many people around here will shrug and wonder how this is still a debate in 2015.  Sadly, it is.  But the Supreme Court made the right decision.  What surprises me is how there are still highly intelligent public figures on the wrong side of history.

 

The vote was 5-4 down political lines (which disappoints me).

 

In a dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia blasted the Court's "threat to American democracy."

"The substance of today's decree is not of immense personal importance to me," he wrote. "But what really astounds is the hubris reflected in today's judicial Putsch."

 

"If you are among the many Americans—of whatever sexual orientation—who favor expanding same-sex marriage, by all means celebrate today's decision. Celebrate the achievement of a desired goal," he wrote. "Celebrate the opportunity for a new expression of commitment to a partner. Celebrate the availability of new benefits. But do not celebrate the Constitution. It had nothing to do with it.

 

 

I realise the job of the Supreme Court is not to make law but interpret law but how can they be so blatantly on the wrong side here.  Im a conservative and could never be so blinded by a political ideology as to vote against this.

 

With a US federal election looming, the candidates weighed in:

 

"In a country as diverse as ours, good people who have opposing views should be able to live side by side. It is now crucial that as a country we protect religious freedom and the right of conscience and also not discriminate," Bush said in his statement.

 

A very careful statement by Bush.  I like Jeb and I know its politics but have the courage to LEAD.  It gets far worse:

 

Conservative firebrands, including Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, said that conservatives must stand and fight by seeking a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.

 

"I will not acquiesce to an imperial court any more than our founders acquiesced to an imperial British monarch. We must resist and reject judicial tyranny, not retreat," Huckabee said in a statement.

 

On the flip side:

 

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said she was "proud" of the ruling.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/26/politics/supreme-court-same-sex-marriage-ruling/index.html

 

Good lord, I dont even know where to begin.  Actually, there is nowhere to begin.  If you feel people who are gay are suffering mental disorders, then you confirm your bigotry.  Sad that people still exist in this world in 2015 that have these feelings. 

 

So Max, if your child came to you and she he was gay or trans, you would....what, have them committed?

 

By the way, there are people who would suggest that anyone who believes in an invisible super power in the sky and believes a book written ages ago by man is the word of God are suffering a delusion.  I dont believe that, but if you're a Christian I'd expect you to be more sensitive to throwing the words "mental illness" around to describe something scientifically accepted which you disagree with due your own belief in something not scientifically accepted.

You seem angry.  Would you have your child committed if they had any sort of mental illness? Do people even get "committed" anymore?  Come on.

You seem angry.  Would you have your child committed if they had any sort of mental illness? Do people even get "committed" anymore?  Come on.

Not angry at all.  Id be amused if I werent actually saddened that people like you exist.  If your daughter brought home a minority, would that be an example of a mental illness?  Of if she dated a Jew or Muslim?  Where does mental illness end for you?  Is it just everyone who doesnt share bigoted views must be sick?

 

Do you think if your son was gay you could council him into being straight?  You dont believe that works, do you? 

 

Are those Christians that believe the church is wrong about gay relationships suffering from a mental illness too?  When the church inevitably changes its official view point on this, will it because they are all sick?

 

Im quite intrigued by this world view...

LOL, no dating a minority isn't a mental illness. You're kind of proving my point here spectacularly. You're totally ignorant of Christianity, yet you are throwing out all sorts of ugly accusations based on your own bigoted assumptions.

LOL, no dating a minority isn't a mental illness. You're kind of proving my point here spectacularly. You're totally ignorant of Christianity, yet you are throwing out all sorts of ugly accusations based on your own bigoted assumptions.

No Im not.  Im more making fun of your bigotry than anything.  I come from a Christian family actually.  You're born straight or gay or whatever.  Its not learned behaviour.  Its not a choice.  Much like being born white or black.  But I guess thats just my opinion.. lol

 

When did you choose to be straight?

I think max powers is the most ignorant person about Christianity. I don't even think the broader view of the Christian church is that homosexuals are suffering from mental illness

I think max powers is the most ignorant person about Christianity. I don't even think the broader view of the Christian church is that homosexuals are suffering from mental illness

No kidding.  At first it was like oh someone who doesnt like gays or is uncomfortable with their own sexuality...that sort of thing. Maybe even someone feeling overly sensitive about their religious beliefs...I can handle that.  But someone actually delusional?  How can you discuss the topic with someone like that? Oh well...

I think part of the problem is the holier than thou attitude that people like TUP and Fraser here are adopting. This might be shocking but winning an ESPY is not a basic human right. People can disagree with Jenner winning it and not be bigots. Ya, some people probably have some phobic or bigoted motivations for having that opinion, but not everyone is the same way. Some people just think there were more deserving candidates and that's not a bigoted or even intolerant opinion. It's just an opinion.

That's not the issue at all Atomic. If people who believe in human rights are holier than thou than so be it.

But Max did not argue about Jenner receiving the award. In my post discussing the matter I explained that others entered the discussion and tried to take the position Jenner shouldn't get the award for certain reasons all of which did not apply.

If you have a good reason as to why Jenner shouldn't have got the award, we're all ears

But as you can tell Max is a homophobe. So it's not really about whether Jenner deserved the award. The award is really a minor thing.

That's not the issue at all Atomic. If people who believe in human rights are holier than thou than so be it.

But Max did not argue about Jenner receiving the award. In my post discussing the matter I explained that others entered the discussion and tried to take the position Jenner shouldn't get the award for certain reasons all of which did not apply.

If you have a good reason as to why Jenner shouldn't have got the award, we're all ears

But as you can tell Max is a homophobe. So it's not really about whether Jenner deserved the award. The award is really a minor thing.

Lol see this is exactly what I'm talking about. First of all I never said Jenner didn't deserve the award, but you're already all fired up to tell me why I'm wrong. Second of all you say "we're all ears" as if you're speaking for more people than just yourself. Nope, even though you believe every rational person in the world shares every viewpoint that you hold, you only get to speak for yourself. Finally, your first paragraph almost killed me. Could you have any more of a martyr complex? I think it's time you took a look in the mirror and examined your real motivations here. You don't have to label everyone a bigot just to feel good about yourself.

I don't really give a **** about the award to be honest. I didn't realize the thread had taken such a turn. I'm just not a fan of when anyone paints an entire segment of the population with a brush based on one similar attribute or tries to deny them their basic rights. If that makes me holier than thou I guess I better order a throne.

Atomic - you addressed me and Fraser. You also took the position not everyone feels she deserves the award. My response was absolutely reasonable to your post.

It's like you want to argue but don't want want to actually take a position. If you agree with me, great!

Also I find it amusing you are chastising us over tone rather than the guy who said being gay was a mental illness.

So no one's then? Then I guess my original point stands. Lay off with the pre-emptive accusations of bigotry, hatred, and phobias towards everyone else. It's almost like there's an... intolerance towards Christians here?

Didn't you get the memo?

Bigotry and hate are allowed against Christians.

To address other posts; A real Christian doesn't hate the person, only the sin that keeps them from God. Hard to hate someone because they sin, since we're all sinners.

I dont consider Jenner a hero by any means, or worthy of an award. Only because all award shows like this are fake and mean nothing. Just like the Oscars and the Grammy's.

How is not believing being gay is a mental illness bigotry towards Christians. Christians can't even agree how they feel about gay marriage. Taking the position it's bigotry against your religion to support human rights is ridiculous. And if your religion councils prejudice then yes it is wrong

Besides you don't follow the letter of your religion anyway. Not many Christians do. It's a pick and choose endeavour.

The issue with the award comes down to ESPN. You can look up the qualifications for the award. Jenner qualified. The point was providing a platform to spread a word of love, tolerance, and acceptance. Surely a message you can embrace as a Christian.

Whatever the root causes may be, the very high suicide rate amongst transgendered people should be cause for concern. I believe we will someday have to answer for the way we treated other human beings. If my actions cause someone to commit suicide, I will have to answer for it.

How is not believing being gay is a mental illness bigotry towards Christians. Christians can't even agree how they feel about gay marriage. Taking the position it's bigotry against your religion to support human rights is ridiculous. And if your religion councils prejudice then yes it is wrong

Besides you don't follow the letter of your religion anyway. Not many Christians do. It's a pick and choose endeavour.

The issue with the award comes down to ESPN. You can look up the qualifications for the award. Jenner qualified. The point was providing a platform to spread a word of love, tolerance, and acceptance. Surely a message you can embrace as a Christian.

I don't hate people but I'm not going to accept their sin as normal and OK just because the media tells me to. I don't accept that lying or stealing is OK either. Mutilating the body God created for you is wrong, whether it's chopping off your genitals or pretending to be something you're not.

I pray for those who have fallen into the trap, whether they hate me for it or not.

Whatever the root causes may be, the very high suicide rate amongst transgendered people should be cause for concern. I believe we will someday have to answer for the way we treated other human beings. If my actions cause someone to commit suicide, I will have to answer for it.

Suicide is always a tragedy. But it's never the answer. Buy sadly people succumb everyday. We are tested everyday of our lives and sometimes we fail with tragic ends.

One of my favourite sayings; If God brought you to it, He can get you through it.

If the church changes their opinion does it mean it's no longer a sin?

And how do you reconcile many Christians who believe the bible is supportive of same sex relationships?

And again, how do you accept picking and choosing which sins are bad and which are ok? Surely some of the more silly things the bible says are sins you probably commit...

If the church changes their opinion does it mean it's no longer a sin?

And how do you reconcile many Christians who believe the bible is supportive of same sex relationships?

And again, how do you accept picking and choosing which sins are bad and which are ok? Surely some of the more silly things the bible says are sins you probably commit...

1. Christianity is more about your own relationship with God and your own personal conscience

2. Yes, it is possible to interpret the bible as not being against same sex relationships, but only if they are monogamous. Same goes for heterosexual relationships.

3. It's not about picking and choosing sins. No human being can stay free of sin - repentance is the key

A lot of stupid down in Kentucky.

 

How this woman wasnt simply fired is beyond me.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/03/politics/kentucky-clerk-same-sex-marriage-kim-davis/index.html

 

A federal judge Thursday ordered Rowan County, Kentucky, clerk Kim Davis to jail for refusing heed a U.S. Supreme Court order legalizing same-sex marriage, and she will stay there until she complies with the ruling.

 

During the hearing, one witness told the court that Davis had denied her a marriage license three times, and when Davis took the stand, the clerk explained that she could not issue the licenses because of her religious beliefs.

 

A large crowd, leaning mostly in support of Davis, gathered outside the courthouse before the hearing, many carrying signs. "Jesus Saves" read one, "Homo sex is sin," read another, while one sign pointed passers-by to the Bible's Acts 5:29, which quotes Peter and other apostles saying, "We must obey God rather than human beings!"

 

Lana Bailey of Worthington, about a 20-minute drive northwest of Ashland, brought signs as well, both of which seemed to address Davis: "My gay friends pay taxes which helps pay you... right??" and "Respect the law; do your job!"

 

Jason Porter, a pastor at Ashland's Gospel Light Baptist Church, spoke for the other side and said he wasn't at the courthouse "to bash people's decisions and lifestyles," but he worried that if people were allowed to continue doing whatever they want to do, "the floodgates will open to other areas of polygamy."

 

He did not elaborate on how same-sex marriage was akin to polygamy, which is the act of having multiple spouses. Polygamy is illegal in every state.

 

Echoing those who cited Acts 5:29, he said he felt Davis had a right to refuse to issue the marriage license and, waving his Bible, he told CNN he bore no hatred toward gay couples and is merely standing "for the truths of my God's word."

 

"I just know the destruction that this brings. As a pastor, I see the background. I see the broken families. I see the AIDS. I see the folks dying of diseases and the brokenness of relationships," he said.

 

In court papers, attorneys for Davis argued that she is unable to comply with the court orders because issuing same-sex marriage licenses "irreparably and irreversibly violates her conscience."

 

But some scoff at the clerk, suggesting she's a hypocrite because she's been divorced three times.

 

"Government officials are free to disagree with the law, but not disobey it," U.S. Attorney Kerry B. Harvey said in a statement.

Ridiculous.  If your religion doesn't support gay marriage, then you don't  have to participate in a gay marriage.  It doesn't give you the write to impose that onto someone else.

 

Every person has the right to their own religion and beliefs (as long as they are legal and don't harm others) and you cannot trample on those rights.

Ridiculous.  If your religion doesn't support gay marriage, then you don't  have to participate in a gay marriage.  It doesn't give you the write to impose that onto someone else.

 

Every person has the right to their own religion and beliefs (as long as they are legal and don't harm others) and you cannot trample on those rights.

Yup.  But thats what these people fail to understand.  Its why we have some strife all over the world using religion as the excuse - imposing their will on others.  Why take the job in the first place?

 

And if I understand correctly, she ordered her deputies not to issue marriage licenses also, so is that not imposing her will on others?  She feels doing the job she accepted and is paid for to be others "imposing" their will but she's doing the same thing but because it's in her interests, it's okay?

 

She's a nut.  She should have been shitcanned on Day One.  She's a disgrace. 

 

And that Pastor that waves the bible around saying he stands for the truth of God's word?  Good grief.  A book written by flawed man.  Let me guess, gays are the only thing he interprets the Bible being against that he claims he must stand against right?  Bet he does a lot of things the Bible says are wrong.  Guess he didnt hear that straight people get AIDS and deseases too.  This clerk, divorced three times...was it "the gays" who "broke" her relationships?

 

Such hypocrisy and nonsense.  This hijacking of religion for selfish goals.  Its sickening.  Its a slap in the face to people who believe in God and arent nuts.

A lot of stupid down in Kentucky.

 

How this woman wasnt simply fired is beyond me.

 

 

She can't be fired cause she's an elected official. I hope they put her in jail. I know the people complaining are only asking for monetary penalties to be applied but I don't see that working as there are likely like-minded people with deep pockets who will cover it.

 

People need to put their personal beliefs aside when acting in a professional capacity, a doctor can't refuse to discuss abortions because they don't agree with them, a public defender can't chose who they defend etc. If she can't do the job as outlined by law she should recuse herself

Ridiculous. If your religion doesn't support gay marriage, then you don't have to participate in a gay marriage. It doesn't give you the write to impose that onto someone else.

Every person has the right to their own religion and beliefs (as long as they are legal and don't harm others) and you cannot trample on those rights.

'As long as they are legal and don't harm others' ? Problem is that some think disagreeing is doing harm. And that's wrong. I hear this all the time. People tolerate religion until religion disagrees with something. Freedom of religion is being eroded.

What about forcing a bakery to make a cake for a gay wedding? Seems like someone's beliefs are being imposed on others.