The Unknown Poster

The root issue is this idea that public transport to the games should be free. I can appreciate the Bombers' desire to provide this and their willingness to pay. But what's the issue? That if the rides cost money, fans wont take the bus and thus, we're back in the same situation of insurmountable traffic woes? Is it not a transit mandate and by extension a mandate of the city to push public transport, especially when it comes to events of this magnitude? It isnt just about providing a convenience to Bombers fans, its a legitimate issue for other Winnipeggers and a safety issue too. If there are vastly reduced transit options which create massive traffic issues and someone dies because emergency services were unable to do their job in a timely fashion, what then? What witty remark will Sammy make about that? The way I understand it, the Bombers want to pay what everyone else pays. So a round trip bus ride costs $5.XX. The charter service the Bombers paid for made it about $10-$11 I believe. They wanted a deal that pushed it back down to $5.XX. Is that not revenue for Transit? Under the terms of the deal the city offered the Bombers (which council rejected), was it a money loser for Transit? Or did politics cost them additional revenue, cost their operators extra gigs, cost IGF users convenience, etc etc etc?

The ones that seat four are already bought and sold for I believe 5 years by corporate sponsors. The new ones installed can be rented on a game by game basis and give fans a better experience then just buying a bunch of tickets and hoping they are all in the same row or section. You get all the luxuries of a suite but are at concourse level. Yeah they look cool, though the bigger ones seem a bit set back so I wonder about site lines. But I could definitely see them being popular.

Is there not an image problem with school busses? Not just Bombers games, but are people going to pay a lot of money for events like Banjo Bowl, Grey Cup, NHL Hockey and then ride a school bus? Bombers should get a street team together and have them handing out cards with Katz' contact info on it. Have this team walking around and handing them out to everyone sitting in traffic on game day because of the lack of charter busses available. As for Katz, he has always been a hustler. I rented the ball park from in 2002 and like most people, I was a "fan" because he was a "local celebrity". But my business dealings with him quickly showed what an arrogant prick he really was. I could never understand the public's love of him, other than he was a celebrity. I also have no idea why the media lets him get away with things. Like it's a running joke at city hall that Sammy doesnt work Fridays because he's in Arizona. I realise that Mayor does (or should) put in a lot of "extra" time and its not a 9-5 job but he's paid to be Mayor of Winnipeg, not Mayor of Winnipeg from Monday-Thurs and Mayor of Phoenix from Friday-Sunday. He seems to have issues with women too. I was quote appalled when he recently talked about having a son and how happy he was to have someone to take over the family business. Sucks being his daughters I guess.

I think this city en mass is sick of Sam Katz.

"Brown" is not a racial slur I have a brown shirt. That's not a racist statement. My car is brown. That's not a racist statement And to be honest, I've heard brown used to describe a person in the same way we'd use black or white and it was never derogatory. So Ofcourse you can pick and choose. You pick the racist names to change. You choose not to change non racist names. Redskins might have a long history but there are many examples of franchise name changes. Maybe not of teams as old as Washington but I don't see how it negatively impacts the nfl to lose a name whose tradition is racist.

There was a huge number of charger buses used last season and there was still traffic issues. Take away those charters and it could be a big problem. But what's worse is the politics of this. Sam Katz behaviour is shameful and this city will be better off when he's gone

Were those names racist or racial. There's a different. The Italian Stallion is racial. Not racist We had a basketball coach called chocolate thunder did we not? Something is racist if the overwhelming use is racially derogatory. I'm not sure Brown Bomber qualifies but I can't speak to whether Joe Louis was offended. Redskins has no positive connotation.

I'm a lot happier with Asper's performance on the Bombers BOD than Sammy's as mayor.

Browns is a racist slur for East Indian people? Is that actually true? The only time I've ever heard a person of East or Mid East ethnicity referred to as "brown" is when they refer to themselves that way. I would legit be surprised to learn brown is a slur Either way the word brown is not a slur. It's a colour. Does crayola have to change the name of their brown crayon? Also "Indian" is not universally considered a slur. I'm open to that debate though. But if your argument Brandon, is that other slurs exist so we should allow this slur to stand, I can't buy that.

Absolutely. It's never personal. I get feisty but it's all in the spirit of debate. I'm sorry if I crossed he line.

Aren't the current loge seating four person? I'm wondering where these are. I'd pay that price for a party of the seats are good.

The BOD made their decision regardless of the transit deal. Obviously. But there certainly is an appearance of Sammy not acting in the same manner. The BOD are perfectly permitted to make their decisions on new board members. We can debate that but this is a different topic. I just really want public sentiment to turn on the city not the bombers when transportation is a freaking disaster. Another clue that Sammy isn't running again Also, didn't the Goldeyes benefit from some city owned lots? Were they not in a robust financial position at the time? Make no mistake, Sammy is as slimy as they come.

I think that helps confirm in my mind that this is sour grapes on Sammy's part. The issue isnt whether the Bombers can afford to pay. The same "robust" Bombers who couldnt afford to make their debt servicing payment this year. The Bombers' position is that they want to pay what everyone else pays for transit service, not the "full priced" charter fee. And while it does impact the Bombers if there was no special public transport for the games, it is absolutely a city issue. Whats next, is Sammy going to make the police unavailable to South Winnipeg and the increased need for them around IGF events? Will he disallow the changing of road lanes to "transit" designation during games? Don't Cross The Boss, especially when he's a miserable, bitter little Napolean.

great minds think alike... On it's face "Brown Bomber" is not insulting. if anything it's intent is to commend and celebrate Joe Louis' ability. I cant imagine anyone calling him (or anyone else) a "Brown Bomber" in a derogatory manner. One can assume he accepted, embraced or had something to do with the name. But I really dont know if thats the case. History seems to contend the name "Browns" had a dual purpose though with their first head coach. So, I'd go with Browns not being racist. And if you want to argue that, it certainly isnt "much more racist" than "Redskins". One is a slur. The other isnt.

I hope you're kidding. The Browns were named after their first coach Paul Brown *or* Joe Louis. The issue would be if "Brown Bomber" is considered racist as a nickname for Joe Louis. Im not sure it is but I've never really thought about it (or even knew that was his nickname to be honest).

So....whats your opinion then? Who called you a racist? Who hijacked the thread? You're the one that turned it into a debate about me rather than a debate about the issue. What racial slur, Redskins? I didn't hijack the thread. All I said was that I think there's too much political correctness in the world & something always pisses someone off. Maybe I'm right or maybe I'm wrong. If you think I'm wrong then debate with me in a civil manner & try to convince me of your opinion. I also said that the only way the NFL changes the name is if fans stop buying Redskin gear. Money is the only thing Goodell & the NFL understand. How is that hijacking a thread? This is my third or fourth post in the entire thread. Thanks to you, I wish now I never would have posted anything. Ill be honest, I know I have strong opinions which is why I love a good debate with intelligent people and I almost always enjoy your posts on here. Im just pushing you to be even more thoughtful on the issue. I agree that sometimes political correctness goes too far. You could be right about the NFL not caring until it impacts their merch sales (I dont know the politics of the NFL nearly well enough to argue that point). But changing the name could also be a financial windfall. Redskins is just too obvious in a way Braves & Blackhawks aren't. It's politically incorrect to say "Indian". Its racist to say Redskin. I think thats the difference on this one.

Doesnt seem that anything came of the secondary search site. The satellite company released the data today but it was not the RAW data. They say no one would understand it. If so, why not release it then? If it's a bunch of 1's and 0's on paper, so be it. At least you can then say you released the raw data. It makes me wonder if the data is open to other interpretation? It might be that they feel very confident in their findings and want to dissuade any other conclusion. Two possibilities: 1) the plane is right where they say it is but the enormity of this search is such that it will take a considerable time to locate wreckage or 2) they are very, very wrong.

So....whats your opinion then? Who called you a racist? Who hijacked the thread? You're the one that turned it into a debate about me rather than a debate about the issue. What racial slur, Redskins?

Thats the thing, the policy is not to fund sports venues which is good policy. At the civic and provincial level, I'm okay with it. At the Federal level Im somewhat split. I dont mind the feds giving Winnipeg money. But in general, its not good policy to do so. The key is getting money for something else and using it for the venue, like we did. It sounds like options were presented buf it MLSE considers the government refusal to be a "favour" then I think you can see whats going on here. MLSE "agrees" to buy the Argos and make the building usable for their needs if the Feds give them cash. MLSE doesnt actually want this to work. Feds refuse. MLSE is happy while expressing disappointment...

Then perhaps you could explain why this derogatory name used to identify an ethnicity by the colour of its skin is different. Dont hold your breath waiting for that explanation. For the losing side of a debate, its much easier to attack the messenger than the message.

You wont mind a team called the N-Bombs then right? because afterall, there is "something out there" that "offends someone". Thats the worst excuse for every bad thing anyone has ever done. I read a thread about this on another message board (American based) where it seemed most of the posters didnt want the name changed (or it was a pretty close split). The arguement against a name change was mainly similar to you - "too politically correct nowadays", "people are too sensitive". If someone you loved was subjected to slurs like "Redskin" on a regular basis, how would you feel? Someone in that other thread made the point "I've been called Redskin and no, it was never in an 'honourable' way". I actually think some of the Aboriginal based names are absolutely because of the honourable, fighting warriror spirit. But "Redskins" isn't one of them. I think it's possible that they intended to convey the fighting aspect of Native Americans using a word that was "acceptable" at the time. But it's not acceptable now nor has it been acceptable for a long time. Redskins is so clearly, obviously and completely ridiculously derogatory that the fact the NFL and their media partners and sponsors of the team havent censored it already is almost as mindblowing as the fact the owner wants to keep the name. If the franchise truly was all about honouring Native American's, they would work with Aboriginal groups to find a name that is more in line with that culture. If Snyder had half a brain he'd see the big bags of money just waiting for him to do the right thing. And right now today, I dont see any reason to change Blackhawks or Braves. "Indians" Im not sure about. It seems to be a derogatory term in Canada (though most Aboriginals I know refer to themselves as Indians) but is far more accepted in the US. Please, don't be stupid. There are no teams called the N bombs. Like I said before, you want a discussion, then discuss. Which always seems to be a problem with when someone disagrees with you. Incorrect. Im the first person ready for an intelligent discussion. Its when stupidity and hyperbole conspire that I get dismissive. "There is always someone offended about something" is about the most ludicrous reason to keep doing something that some find offensive. Generally, common sense can be a good measuring stick to most things. To some "Redskins" is on part with "N*****" as a racial slur. It can be difficult for white people (which I am, I dont know about you) to fully comprehend how offensive a slur can be. I dont find the name "Braves" offensive but I would be intrigued by any discussion in that regard by people who do. But "Redskins" is so absurdly derogatory that I think the reason its still used is the sheer ridiculousness of it and the sheer audacity of the owners and league to keep it. I think it's so offensive that no one wants to admit an NFL team has been using a racial slur for decades by changing it so they resist. The fact is, whatever tradition that team has is engrained in the franchise, not it's name. This isnt the same as if some lunatic said "Jets" offended him because he was deathly afraid of flying. Redskins *is* a racial slur used everyday by people to insult others. The name must be changed. The *only* arguments I've seen so far is "tradition" and "people are too sensitive". Actually, the best argument I've read hasnt even surfaced here yet so Ill help out the people on that side - the belief that "Redskin" was a term used by everyone, including Native Americans and was never meant in a derogatory fashion. There are historical records that reference use of "White Skins" and "Red Skins" in talking about Native Americans and white people. Then again, it wasnt long ago that some businesses had signs up that said "No Indians or dogs allowed", but we didnt subscribe to "tradition" in that respect. An enlightened people admit when they are wrong. Snyder should apologize and change the name.

It certainly would not surprise me if the snubbing of Katz buddy had something to do with this. But I'd have to hear the actual arguments against supporting it. If it costs transit money to offer this discount, then that is a reasonable argument to save taxpayers money. But even if transit breaks even on the deal, it's a community service initiative on multiple counts, good PR and gives transit marketing opportunities to a pretty captive audience.

Whoa! Thats interesting that the official twitter tweeted that.

And how many teams are community owned? 3? So you have an 8 team league (until this season) with 3 teams owned by the "community" and 2 teams owned by the same guy who has lost money many times on this and you say the "owners" are greedy? How much has whatshisname in Hamilton lost? No owner who puts money into a CFL franchise or cummunity BOD's who work for free and contribute their time and expertise can be called greedy.

WTF. This city, proactive as always. Seems like the positive news contained in the Bombers revenue release made the city change their minds. I hope when people are stuck in traffic and waiting long lines for busses that arent coming that they know where the blame lies. Is the city then going to provide the same level of bus service, but on a 'regular route' basis? I dont have a problem with fans paying the bus fee but having dedicated buses working these routes and working the park & rides is a must. Not just as a service to Bombers fans but to the rest of us that want to be able to drive around south winnipeg during those times.