Mr. Perfect

Oh the genius was still going on about him "being out of position" tonight - Conveniently ignoring our defensive zone play over the last 40 minutes as per usual.

That and when the people contributing actually understand the game they are talking about for the most part, that helps as well...

Or we could just win again and say to hell with them both

I thought I heard Beyak say Tarasenko and Steen were out for tomorrow. If that's in fact the case that's huge for us.

In fairness Perreault , Myers and Stuart twice had some horrendous giveaways in the last 5 minutes....

Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Pavelec has awful numbers in back to backs, but how do you sit a guy that played as well as he did tonight? That sends a pretty brutal message if you're a coach.

A very fortunate 2-0. Pardy was brutal tonight, especially in the second period. That turnover midway through while the Jets were on the penalty kill was horrendous.

But...but...but....he's out of position!!

Very concerning the amount of odd man rushes we are giving up with a 2-0 lead. That's not sound defensive hockey considering there's currently seven minutes left in the third.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.Convenient how you ignored all of the odd man rushes in the game, especially in the second period. Pavelec made a number of big saves to bail out his blue liners.Ya that's called doing your job. Is Pavelec the only goalie who ever has to deal with odd man rushes? Every goalie deals with odd man rushes every game. That's the stupidest point in this thread. Guy has 5 years of NHL stats proving he's below league average. He is who he is.No, the stupidest point in this thread is how you want to blame a goaltender for his goals against in today's game when we are without our top defenceman, arguably our third or fourth defenceman, and our second best d-man down the stretch. Is Pavelec the only one to face odd man rushes? Of course not. Hi Captain Obvious. That being said, those saves is what allows your team to stay out in front as often as they did. You want to give chances like that to Vrbata, Burrows, and the Sedins all game? Good luck with that.There's differences of opinion, and then there's just simply not understanding the game you're pretending to know so much about. Unfortunately for you, you fall into the latter. Sorry man, you just don't get it. There's so many holes in your argument here. Pavelec has 5 years of statistics proving he's not an NHL calibre goalie.Read these if you don't believe me (there are many more...): http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2014/2/4/5377382/ondrej-pavelec-and-the-possibility-of-a-buy-out http://m.thn.com/blog/ondrej-pavelec-the-worst-decision-the-winnipeg-jets-have-made-so-far/ http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2205284-cautionary-tale-how-the-winnipeg-jets-ended-up-with-the-nhls-worst-goaltending http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2013/3/6/4000798/winnipeg-jets-ondrej-pavelec-overpaid http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/ondrej-pavelecs-goalie-play-is-the-winnipeg-jets-main-issue/ Wow... I'm NOT arguing the last five years - Read my posts on the subject - Please point out to me where I have disputed ANYTHING over the last five years.What I am arguing is that RIGHT NOW he is the best we have. I'm also arguing that RIGHT NOW considering what's transpiring infront of him is that you can't blame him for the goals today, not could you blame him for the winner against Chicago which was tipped right in front of him, and you also can't blame him on the winner against the Rangers as Byfuglien got beat, and Krieder made a heck of a play (Which Pavelec was not out of position on - An assertion of yours that's again incorrect) You say Pavelec is below average - Guess what - NO ONE IS DISAGREEING WITH YOU. He's paid 21st among starting goalies (Which is ALSO below average, which to your point of the contact tying the Jets down is also incorrect based on that.) The bottom line is this - He is the best goaltender we have TODAY. In April that's not changing. Yeah it was fun with Hutch but anyone who knows hockey and knows what they are talking about knows that what Hutch was on was a hot streak. That's over. That's pro sports. Pavelec had a shorter one before the Hawks game, and Hammond had a hot streak going of his own going in Ottawa before his last couple of games. They come and go and last for varying periods of time. All things being equal (meaning taking hot streaks out of the equation), today Pavelec gives the Jets the best chance to win. Yes it's not ideal but that's just what we are faced with right now. Having said all of the above, especially with him being below average, if you're going to give guys like Radim Vrbata, the Sedins and Burrows time to have a picnic at the top of the crease, more often than not you're going to lose REGARDLESS of who the goalie is. The Jets got lucky today. Pavelec was a big reason why. The four goals he allowed could have easily been six or seven and that's not an exaggeration or a reflection of his play - That's a product of the defenders in front of him and the aforementioned twenty turnovers the club committed today.

The point is Pavelec is the weak link. Jets right now have 4 solid lines. Pavelec is the one weighing the team down.That right there shows your understanding of the game (or lack thereof). It has nothing to do with the four forward lines. It has everything to do with your three defensive pairings, which just got weaker assuming Enstrom misses any time on the upcoming road trip.Yes I forgot to mention the fact we have a great top two defensive pairings. And your statement there shows your lack of understanding in the importance of team possession. And early indications are Enstrom should be fine. His shoulder popped out then right back in. But we will get an update tomorrow. Funny you bring that up. Guess what happens when you turn the puck over 20 times in a game? You have no puck possession. If you have no puck possession the other team is bound to score. It's not a difficult concept.

The point is Pavelec is the weak link. Jets right now have 4 solid lines. Pavelec is the one weighing the team down.That right there shows your understanding of the game (or lack thereof). It has nothing to do with the four forward lines. It has everything to do with your three defensive pairings, which just got weaker assuming Enstrom misses any time on the upcoming road trip.Yes I forgot to mention the fact we have a great top two defensive pairings. And your statement there shows your lack of understanding in the importance of team possession. And early indications are Enstrom should be fine. His shoulder popped out then right back in. But we will get an update tomorrow. A great top two when everyone is in the lineup yes. A great top two pairings today? Not even close.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.Convenient how you ignored all of the odd man rushes in the game, especially in the second period. Pavelec made a number of big saves to bail out his blue liners.Ya that's called doing your job. Is Pavelec the only goalie who ever has to deal with odd man rushes? Every goalie deals with odd man rushes every game. That's the stupidest point in this thread. Guy has 5 years of NHL stats proving he's below league average. He is who he is.No, the stupidest point in this thread is how you want to blame a goaltender for his goals against in today's game when we are without our top defenceman, arguably our third or fourth defenceman, and our second best d-man down the stretch. Is Pavelec the only one to face odd man rushes? Of course not. Hi Captain Obvious. That being said, those saves is what allows your team to stay out in front as often as they did. You want to give chances like that to Vrbata, Burrows, and the Sedins all game? Good luck with that.There's differences of opinion, and then there's just simply not understanding the game you're pretending to know so much about. Unfortunately for you, you fall into the latter. Sorry man, you just don't get it. There's so many holes in your argument here. Pavelec has 5 years of statistics proving he's not an NHL calibre goalie.Read these if you don't believe me (there are many more...): http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2014/2/4/5377382/ondrej-pavelec-and-the-possibility-of-a-buy-out http://m.thn.com/blog/ondrej-pavelec-the-worst-decision-the-winnipeg-jets-have-made-so-far/ http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2205284-cautionary-tale-how-the-winnipeg-jets-ended-up-with-the-nhls-worst-goaltending http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2013/3/6/4000798/winnipeg-jets-ondrej-pavelec-overpaid http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/ondrej-pavelecs-goalie-play-is-the-winnipeg-jets-main-issue/ Wow... I'm NOT arguing the last five years - Read my posts on the subject - Please point out to me where I have disputed ANYTHING over the last five years.What I am arguing is that RIGHT NOW he is the best we have. I'm also arguing that RIGHT NOW considering what's transpiring infront of him is that you can't blame him for the goals today, not could you blame him for the winner against Chicago which was tipped right in front of him, and you also can't blame him on the winner against the Rangers as Byfuglien got beat, and Krieder made a heck of a play (Which Pavelec was not out of position on - An assertion of yours that's again incorrect) You say Pavelec is below average - Guess what - NO ONE IS DISAGREEING WITH YOU. He's paid 21st among starting goalies (Which is ALSO below average, which to your point of the contact tying the Jets down is also incorrect based on that.) The bottom line is this - He is the best goaltender we have TODAY. In April that's not changing. Yeah it was fun with Hutch but anyone who knows hockey and knows what they are talking about knows that what Hutch was on was a hot streak. That's over. That's pro sports. Pavelec had a shorter one before the Hawks game, and Hammond had a hot streak going of his own going in Ottawa before his last couple of games. They come and go and last for varying periods of time. All things being equal (meaning taking hot streaks out of the equation), today Pavelec gives the Jets the best chance to win. Yes it's not ideal but that's just what we are faced with right now. Having said all of the above, especially with him being below average, if you're going to give guys like Radim Vrbata, the Sedins and Burrows time to have a picnic at the top of the crease, more often than not you're going to lose REGARDLESS of who the goalie is. The Jets got lucky today. Pavelec was a big reason why. The four goals he allowed could have easily been six or seven and that's not an exaggeration or a reflection of his play - That's a product of the defenders in front of him and the aforementioned twenty turnovers the club committed today. I'm talking about going forward, he's not the answer, and it's frustrating knowing we're likely stuck with him. That's my point.And again, no one is saying he is the answer (And no, that's not the only point you've made so don't pretend that it is - They've all just been dissected for the incredibly flawed arguements they are). Could you point out where anyone is saying he is the answer, or are you going to gloss over that like how I said to point out where I said anything about the last five years of his career?Suggesting we are stuck with him is wrong. His salary ranking compared to other starting goalies proves that. No one is going to trade for Pavelec. Who wants to pay $4 million a year for a backup goalie? No one. Only way he's traded is if the Jets eat a significant portion of his salary.And you've been making excuses for Pavelec throughout this entire thread. So what if we had an injured D-man or he had a few odd man rushes? Every goalie deals with those challenges every season. Are the Jets the only team to deal with a skilled team like the Canucks this year? Bottom line is he lets in more goals than a league average goalie. Your arguments are hilarious; not sure why I'm even wasting my time responding to them. *head desk* Why the hard on for the "league average goalie"? Again, no one, myself included is saying he is average or above average. He is below average and IS GETTING PAID as a below average goalie. You're all hung up on his average salary. Guess what - IT DOESN'T MATTER what he makes per year when you're getting paid as the 21st goaltender. It's about a MARKETPLACE and his MARKET VALUE is where it should be, MAYBE a bit higher but nothing that's untradeable by any means whatsoever. What is so difficult to understand about that? The problem here is that just because he is below average (which I fully acknowledge) is that you want to blame every goal that gets past him as his fault. Sorry, hockey doesn't work that way. If you understood the game you'd get that. It's obvious you don't.

The point is Pavelec is the weak link. Jets right now have 4 solid lines. Pavelec is the one weighing the team down. That right there shows your understanding of the game (or lack thereof). It has nothing to do with the four forward lines. It has everything to do with your three defensive pairings, which just got weaker assuming Enstrom misses any time on the upcoming road trip.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.Convenient how you ignored all of the odd man rushes in the game, especially in the second period. Pavelec made a number of big saves to bail out his blue liners.Ya that's called doing your job. Is Pavelec the only goalie who ever has to deal with odd man rushes? Every goalie deals with odd man rushes every game. That's the stupidest point in this thread. Guy has 5 years of NHL stats proving he's below league average. He is who he is.No, the stupidest point in this thread is how you want to blame a goaltender for his goals against in today's game when we are without our top defenceman, arguably our third or fourth defenceman, and our second best d-man down the stretch. Is Pavelec the only one to face odd man rushes? Of course not. Hi Captain Obvious. That being said, those saves is what allows your team to stay out in front as often as they did. You want to give chances like that to Vrbata, Burrows, and the Sedins all game? Good luck with that.There's differences of opinion, and then there's just simply not understanding the game you're pretending to know so much about. Unfortunately for you, you fall into the latter. Sorry man, you just don't get it. There's so many holes in your argument here. Pavelec has 5 years of statistics proving he's not an NHL calibre goalie.Read these if you don't believe me (there are many more...): http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2014/2/4/5377382/ondrej-pavelec-and-the-possibility-of-a-buy-out http://m.thn.com/blog/ondrej-pavelec-the-worst-decision-the-winnipeg-jets-have-made-so-far/ http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2205284-cautionary-tale-how-the-winnipeg-jets-ended-up-with-the-nhls-worst-goaltending http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2013/3/6/4000798/winnipeg-jets-ondrej-pavelec-overpaid http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/ondrej-pavelecs-goalie-play-is-the-winnipeg-jets-main-issue/ Wow... I'm NOT arguing the last five years - Read my posts on the subject - Please point out to me where I have disputed ANYTHING over the last five years.What I am arguing is that RIGHT NOW he is the best we have. I'm also arguing that RIGHT NOW considering what's transpiring infront of him is that you can't blame him for the goals today, not could you blame him for the winner against Chicago which was tipped right in front of him, and you also can't blame him on the winner against the Rangers as Byfuglien got beat, and Krieder made a heck of a play (Which Pavelec was not out of position on - An assertion of yours that's again incorrect) You say Pavelec is below average - Guess what - NO ONE IS DISAGREEING WITH YOU. He's paid 21st among starting goalies (Which is ALSO below average, which to your point of the contact tying the Jets down is also incorrect based on that.) The bottom line is this - He is the best goaltender we have TODAY. In April that's not changing. Yeah it was fun with Hutch but anyone who knows hockey and knows what they are talking about knows that what Hutch was on was a hot streak. That's over. That's pro sports. Pavelec had a shorter one before the Hawks game, and Hammond had a hot streak going of his own going in Ottawa before his last couple of games. They come and go and last for varying periods of time. All things being equal (meaning taking hot streaks out of the equation), today Pavelec gives the Jets the best chance to win. Yes it's not ideal but that's just what we are faced with right now. Having said all of the above, especially with him being below average, if you're going to give guys like Radim Vrbata, the Sedins and Burrows time to have a picnic at the top of the crease, more often than not you're going to lose REGARDLESS of who the goalie is. The Jets got lucky today. Pavelec was a big reason why. The four goals he allowed could have easily been six or seven and that's not an exaggeration or a reflection of his play - That's a product of the defenders in front of him and the aforementioned twenty turnovers the club committed today. I'm talking about going forward, he's not the answer, and it's frustrating knowing we're likely stuck with him. That's my point. And again, no one is saying he is the answer (And no, that's not the only point you've made so don't pretend that it is - They've all just been dissected for the incredibly flawed arguements they are). Could you point out where anyone is saying he is the answer, or are you going to gloss over that like how I said to point out where I said anything about the last five years of his career? Suggesting we are stuck with him is wrong. His salary ranking compared to other starting goalies proves that.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.Convenient how you ignored all of the odd man rushes in the game, especially in the second period. Pavelec made a number of big saves to bail out his blue liners.Ya that's called doing your job. Is Pavelec the only goalie who ever has to deal with odd man rushes? Every goalie deals with odd man rushes every game. That's the stupidest point in this thread. Guy has 5 years of NHL stats proving he's below league average. He is who he is.No, the stupidest point in this thread is how you want to blame a goaltender for his goals against in today's game when we are without our top defenceman, arguably our third or fourth defenceman, and our second best d-man down the stretch. Is Pavelec the only one to face odd man rushes? Of course not. Hi Captain Obvious. That being said, those saves is what allows your team to stay out in front as often as they did. You want to give chances like that to Vrbata, Burrows, and the Sedins all game? Good luck with that.There's differences of opinion, and then there's just simply not understanding the game you're pretending to know so much about. Unfortunately for you, you fall into the latter. Sorry man, you just don't get it. There's so many holes in your argument here. Pavelec has 5 years of statistics proving he's not an NHL calibre goalie.Read these if you don't believe me (there are many more...): http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2014/2/4/5377382/ondrej-pavelec-and-the-possibility-of-a-buy-out http://m.thn.com/blog/ondrej-pavelec-the-worst-decision-the-winnipeg-jets-have-made-so-far/ http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2205284-cautionary-tale-how-the-winnipeg-jets-ended-up-with-the-nhls-worst-goaltending http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2013/3/6/4000798/winnipeg-jets-ondrej-pavelec-overpaid http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/ondrej-pavelecs-goalie-play-is-the-winnipeg-jets-main-issue/ Wow... I'm NOT arguing the last five years - Read my posts on the subject - Please point out to me where I have disputed ANYTHING over the last five years. What I am arguing is that RIGHT NOW he is the best we have. I'm also arguing that RIGHT NOW considering what's transpiring infront of him is that you can't blame him for the goals today, nor could you blame him for the winner against Chicago which was tipped right in front of him, and you also can't blame him on the winner against the Rangers as Byfuglien got beat, and Krieder made a heck of a play (Which Pavelec was not out of position on - An assertion of yours that's again incorrect) You say Pavelec is below average - Guess what - NO ONE IS DISAGREEING WITH YOU. He's paid 21st among starting goalies (Which is ALSO below average, which to your point of the contact tying the Jets down is also incorrect based on that.) The bottom line is this - He is the best goaltender we have TODAY. In April that's not changing. Yeah it was fun with Hutch but anyone who knows hockey and knows what they are talking about knows that what Hutch was on was a hot streak. That's over. That's pro sports. Pavelec had a shorter one before the Hawks game, and Hammond had a hot streak going of his own going in Ottawa before his last couple of games. They come and go and last for varying periods of time. All things being equal (meaning taking hot streaks out of the equation), today Pavelec gives the Jets the best chance to win. Yes it's not ideal but that's just what we are faced with right now. Having said all of the above, especially with him being below average, if you're going to give guys like Radim Vrbata, the Sedins and Burrows time to have a picnic at the top of the crease, more often than not you're going to lose REGARDLESS of who the goalie is. The Jets got lucky today. Pavelec was a big reason why. The four goals he allowed could have easily been six or seven and that's not an exaggeration or a reflection of his play - That's a product of the defenders in front of him and the aforementioned twenty turnovers the club committed today.

So you think $4 million per season for a backup goalie is reasonable? If Pavelec were a league average goalie I'd have no problem with his contract. But Pavs is below league average. Over his career he lets in one additional goal every 3rd game, compared to a league average goalie. That's crippling. League average salary (not cap hit) for starting goalies is $5.16M Pavelecs salary is $3.75M He ranks 21st in terms of salary for starting goalies. He is pretty much where he belongs. You can't look at things in a fishbowl and complain how much we pay him, but it was a very reasonable salary they signed him to when he was still a younger goalie with potential. His salary doesn't handcuff the team. If we were paying him $6.7M this year and $6.8M next year like Cam Ward makes, you'd have more reason to complain at his salary. Fine then, forget about his salary. Point is we're paying him as a starter and he plain sucks. He's terrible and his stats prove it. I'm shocked how many Jets fans on here are supportive of having a terrible goaltender. Missed the point again. No one is advocating for keeping him the duration of his deal. In fact I'd be willing to bet that most of the people on this board and Jets fans in general would be happy if we moved him in the offseason. That being said RIGHT NOW he is the best we have, and when you consider as Rich said that he's 21st in salary for starting goalies, it's not that hard to move him.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending.Convenient how you ignored all of the odd man rushes in the game, especially in the second period. Pavelec made a number of big saves to bail out his blue liners.Ya that's called doing your job. Is Pavelec the only goalie who ever has to deal with odd man rushes? Every goalie deals with odd man rushes every game. That's the stupidest point in this thread. Guy has 5 years of NHL stats proving he's below league average. He is who he is. No, the stupidest point in this thread is how you want to blame a goaltender for his goals against in today's game when we are without our top defenceman, arguably our third or fourth defenceman, and our second best d-man down the stretch. Is Pavelec the only one to face odd man rushes? Of course not. Hi Captain Obvious. That being said, those saves is what allows your team to stay out in front as often as they did. You want to give chances like that to Vrbata, Burrows, and the Sedins all game? Good luck with that. There's differences of opinion, and then there's just simply not understanding the game you're pretending to know so much about. Unfortunately for you, you fall into the latter.

And then he let in 4 goals and ended the game with a .867 save percentage. Yep, Pavs is back to his usual terrible self. Glad we were able to win in spite of Pavelec, but we're not going to score 5 goals every game. Jets simply need better from their goaltending. Convenient how you ignored all of the odd man rushes in the game, especially in the second period (recall the Vrbata breakaway late in the second for example?). Pavelec made a number of big saves to bail out his blue liners. The Jets committed TWENTY turnovers - TWENTY and you want to blame the goalie. Hilarious.

Short term I guess you start the hot hand; and I'm not convinced that's Pavelec anymore. My concern is Pavelec's contract is holding this team back for the next two season, when we are primed in every other area of the team to make some serious noise. When you have 30 teams as you do in the NHL, you're not going to have elite, or even good or average goaltending on some teams. All it takes is one team willing to deal, and as was seen when David Clarkson was moved by the Leafs (Yes not a goaltender - but a brutal contract, one MUCH worse than Pavelec's), anything is possible when it comes to trades. To suggest the contract is holding the team back or is unmovable, however you want to put it is just simply not correct.

If only they told the whole story - Pavelec and the team bailed out Harrison a number of times, especially in the first period.

Trouba having a pretty brutal game out there today as well.

Quietly following this thread, then watching the first period of today's game... ...Haha, comical. Harrison and Pardy looked COMPLETELY lost out there.

No chance in hell Demski falls into round two.

....What?! Listen the last thing I am is a Pavelec booster or supporter but when it's a partial breakaway as it was when Kreider made Byfuglien look stupid at the blue line, Pavelec played that as well as he could under the circumstances. He stretched out to make the pad save but Kreider went to his back hand and BARELY fit the puck in. To say he was out of position is not remotely correct whatsoever, and to say he should have made the stop considering it was a partial break shows how foolish that comment is. Even folks in peewee or bantam hockey wouldn't say he was out of position. Krieder just made a heck of a play. It's as simple as that. I'd like to say I'm surprised by your comment but for someone who suggests calling up Connor Hellebuyck for the stretch run, someone with ZERO NHL experience (Yes a great prospect no question), or implies this team is better without Dustin Byfugien, sadly I'm not surprised at all.