Star Trek Beyond Spoiler Thread

[The Unknown Poster]

I know there are Trekkies here. 

I'll give a brief opinion and expand when I have more time. Curious to hear other opinions. 

I have mixed feelings. Similar to when I saw Star Trek 2009. As opposed to Into Darkness which I immediately knew sucked 

Beyond was a simple, shallow story with a one note villain who's motivations were lame and existence/powers were unexplained. 

But saying that it was rather enjoyable with a few really good things. Most of the characterization sand interactions were much improved. 

Quinto still played Spock way too emotional. Him laughing was inexcusable. 

Bones still seems like a parody more than accurate. 

The ship destruction scene was pretty good. Most of the action was good. The dialogue was ok. Pegg gets it more than Orci but still it seemed like a rushed script that needed some polish. 

The great surprise of a photo of the original crew was excellent thoigh also maddening in that they could have used Shatner and done it right. 

So basically a mess but an enjoyable one that leaves me wanting to see a 4th of it has the time and care to be better. 

[Logan007]

Yeah, I enjoyed it more then the previous 2.  But there's still plot holes as you stated.  Like not explaining how he turned into that alien, then how he turned back.  I mean...WTF...where did he get his powers from, and how did he live so long?  Where did he get his legion of followers?  When they were on the planet, where were all the pilots that flew the millions of little ships that destroyed the Enterprise?  And when they attacked the Yorktown, the swarm of these things seemed to be in the billions.  And then the music that destroyed them all.  I also agree about too much emotion from Spock.

Yeah, that was the bad.  The good though, I think, outweighed it...almost.  The Yorktown was cool.  The beginning where he's trying to be a diplomat to try and ease the peace between the two species.  The USS Franklin was cool because it gave that old vibe feeling.  The camaraderie be the three seemed to be building.  I actually liked Bones personally.  The original crew photo was great, but I don't think they could have done anything with Shatner because he's so old and fat now.  He doesn't look like he did in that old photo.  I also like how they send off Spock Prime.

So yeah, hopefully in the next one they clean it up and not leave so many plot holes.  I'm kind of tired of the time travel thing so I don't know how they're going to bring Kirk's dad into the 4th like they said they were.  Hopefully they do it right.

[The Unknown Poster]

2 hours ago, Logan007 said:

Yeah, I enjoyed it more then the previous 2.  But there's still plot holes as you stated.  Like not explaining how he turned into that alien, then how he turned back.  I mean...WTF...where did he get his powers from, and how did he live so long?  Where did he get his legion of followers?  When they were on the planet, where were all the pilots that flew the millions of little ships that destroyed the Enterprise?  And when they attacked the Yorktown, the swarm of these things seemed to be in the billions.  And then the music that destroyed them all.  I also agree about too much emotion from Spock.

Yeah, that was the bad.  The good though, I think, outweighed it...almost.  The Yorktown was cool.  The beginning where he's trying to be a diplomat to try and ease the peace between the two species.  The USS Franklin was cool because it gave that old vibe feeling.  The camaraderie be the three seemed to be building.  I actually liked Bones personally.  The original crew photo was great, but I don't think they could have done anything with Shatner because he's so old and fat now.  He doesn't look like he did in that old photo.  I also like how they send off Spock Prime.

So yeah, hopefully in the next one they clean it up and not leave so many plot holes.  I'm kind of tired of the time travel thing so I don't know how they're going to bring Kirk's dad into the 4th like they said they were.  Hopefully they do it right.

Krall was awful.  For reasons you stated.

His ship landed safely.  It was completely intact and able to fly when Scotty fired it up.  Why did Krall abandon it?  What happened to his crew?  Presumably they were the other members of his group.  So Krall goes insane but so does his entire crew?  Why did they look like aliens?  How did they discover this technology?  Why didnt they use it to send a distress signal?  How does the technology work? 

It seemed whenever he sucked the life out of people, it made him younger (and more human), so what caused him to look alien in the first place?  Why did he suck back a few more humans and completely revert to his human self?  What was his motivation?

He looked around the same age in his conveniently left final log threatening the Federation, which was obviously recorded on the Franklin.  So what caused him to abandon the ship?  Why did he go insane so quickly?  Why did he even use the name Krall?  And why?

Shatner isn too old or fat.  He's 85 years old.  He looks great.  But sure, he looks older than in Generations.  If only there was some sort of technology that existed to make actors look younger.  Oh wait!  lol  Very easy to do.

[Logan007]

16 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Krall was awful.  For reasons you stated.

His ship landed safely.  It was completely intact and able to fly when Scotty fired it up.  Why did Krall abandon it?  What happened to his crew?  Presumably they were the other members of his group.  So Krall goes insane but so does his entire crew?  Why did they look like aliens?  How did they discover this technology?  Why didnt they use it to send a distress signal?  How does the technology work? 

It seemed whenever he sucked the life out of people, it made him younger (and more human), so what caused him to look alien in the first place?  Why did he suck back a few more humans and completely revert to his human self?  What was his motivation?

He looked around the same age in his conveniently left final log threatening the Federation, which was obviously recorded on the Franklin.  So what caused him to abandon the ship?  Why did he go insane so quickly?  Why did he even use the name Krall?  And why?

Shatner isn too old or fat.  He's 85 years old.  He looks great.  But sure, he looks older than in Generations.  If only there was some sort of technology that existed to make actors look younger.  Oh wait!  lol  Very easy to do.

You bring up a good point.  Why was Scotty able to fix the Franklin, but their own crew couldn't?  Maybe Scotty's galpal had already partially fixed it already by scrounging parts over the years.  Who knows.

Yeah, why turn back to human after you've changed?  It only serves to explain to the audience what happened, which is good, but otherwise there's no point.  Unless it also makes him young again and it takes on the trait of whatever humanoid he absorbed in the process.  But like you said, why not absorb more of them.  No reason to keep them hostage.  They should have just killed them all.

Shatner is fat, come on.  They could make him look younger, but he's have to lose some weight to look like he did back in the Khan days.  I mean look at his head...it's bulbous.

[The Unknown Poster]

There has actually been speculation that Shatner is on medication that causes the bloated look.  I cant remember the name of the meds but its a steroid I was prescribed temporaily (I had no side effects) but people who are on it continuously can have that look.  But sure, look at Star Wars.  They assigned personal trainers and chefs to Hamil and Fischer so they were in shape.  Shatner is very active and fit at 85.  Probably could lose 20 lbs with the right program but he's so special and important to Star Trek that likely no one would care.  CGI, clever camera angles and you can do an easy "holo graphic" scene like they wrote for the 2009 film.  Have a montage of archival footage over-laced too.  Anyway...

Regarding Beyond, also, the whole vampire alien thing was pointless and should have been removed as the story was edited.  It served no purpose.  The only reason would seem to be for the surprise of Krall being human.  But it wasnt a big enough surprise and didnt serve the story anyway.

If it was me, I'd have made him a descendant of the Franklin Captain who's bitterness comes from growing up and seeing suffering as the crew tried to survive on this planet.  So he was influenced by the anger and frustration of his elders.  I would also have made Jaylah a descendant of the Franklin crew because I think it would have made her story better.  Funny how she finally escapes and goes to a birthday party and joins starfleet.  Doesnt contact her homeworld or family.  Weird.  So make her related to Franklin crew and it makes her journey more emotional.

[Brandon Blue&Gold]

I enjoyed it. Much better than Into Darkness and about as good (and more sensible) as 09 Star Trek. My only major beef was taking out the swarm with the Beastie Boys (I accept the theory just found it kinda cheesy). The action was good, the character interactions were enjoyable and the overall plot was solid albeit a little weak thanks to the villain and his "wmd".

As for Krall himself I wasn't sold at all on him until the reveal that he was the Franklin's captain. That made his motivations much clearer to me. As a former MACO turned captain it would certainly make him see things in black and white terms. Which would explain why he felt betrayed by Starfleet and wanted revenge.  As for the vampire thing, he would take on the characteristics of the person he sucked, which until the humans came along meant only aliens would have been available to him to feed on, hence his look. The more humans he fed on, the more human he began to look like. Works for me. As a Trek fan I've accepted goofier premises without blinking lol.

Scotty fixing the ship with whatshername, sure why not. Just makes Scotty and her look more impressive rather than dump on the original Franklin crew imo. And Scotty does have more advanced knowledge of tech than whoever would have survived the Franklin crash. 

Anyways just a few of my thoughts. 

[The Unknown Poster]

It was never stated (that I recall) that Krall was taking on the appearance of the aliens he fed upon.  the whole vampire thing was silly and seemed pointless other then to make him "horrific" and provide a shallow and flimsy reason why he was still alive after 100 years.

I dont buy his motivations.  Why does a Captain in Starfleet feel betrayed?  Because his ship crashed on a planet and he never fixed it or sent a distress call so Starfleet didnt know where he was?  It seems rather shallow to me.  And if he was nuts from his experiences as a soldier AND Starfleet missed that diagnoses before making him Captain, we still must buy that the rest of his crew shared his bitterness and hatred.  It was just a flimsy premise and too similar to Nero who suffered the same issue of wanting revenge for really no reason (and his crew goes along with it).

There was a scene in the Wrath of Khan where one of Khan's people confronts him about his need for revenge and tries to talk him into letting it go.  At least there we got a real glimpse of Khan's madness and his control and influence over his people.

[Brandon Blue&Gold]

40 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

It was never stated (that I recall) that Krall was taking on the appearance of the aliens he fed upon.  the whole vampire thing was silly and seemed pointless other then to make him "horrific" and provide a shallow and flimsy reason why he was still alive after 100 years.

I dont buy his motivations.  Why does a Captain in Starfleet feel betrayed?  Because his ship crashed on a planet and he never fixed it or sent a distress call so Starfleet didnt know where he was?  It seems rather shallow to me.  And if he was nuts from his experiences as a soldier AND Starfleet missed that diagnoses before making him Captain, we still must buy that the rest of his crew shared his bitterness and hatred.  It was just a flimsy premise and too similar to Nero who suffered the same issue of wanting revenge for really no reason (and his crew goes along with it).

There was a scene in the Wrath of Khan where one of Khan's people confronts him about his need for revenge and tries to talk him into letting it go.  At least there we got a real glimpse of Khan's madness and his control and influence over his people.

It was never stated as I recall, I just inferred that Krall took on the characteristics of those he drained. I will admit the vampire angle was a little shallow and probably an unfortunate byproduct of the story having to keep him alive for 100 years. 

When they Franklin crashed did the movie actually state what shape the ship was in or how much of the crew actually survived? Perhaps a distress call couldn't be sent, none of the engineers survived the crash and they had no clue at first that they had gone through a wormhole or black hole or whatever ending up so far away.

As for Krall's bitterness and possible mental issues, they probably only surfaced after the crash and festered nicely over the following century. Plenty of time to get a good rage on. He could have been just seen as a rigid yet competent military type when Starfleet made him a captain. The crash and stranding could be what made him snap. 

He's no Khan or General Chang, but Krall was more straightforward than Nero was, if nothing else. If they had a better reason for his extended life than "Blah I'm a space vampire!" he would be more compelling. And give Idris Elba (a damn fine actor) more to work with.

[The Unknown Poster]

Yeah, I think it *can* work but requires too much stretching of the imagination.  The plot should have been simpler.  I dont recall them saying how many crew survived.  But the Franklin clearly landed pretty softly since it was completely intact and its systems worked when Scotty powered them up and the whole ship was fully operational in pretty short order.  Its unlikely Scotty was carrying with him any sort of major repair kit or anything so he only had his knowledge and whatever Jaylah had around to repair it.

The Franklin crew had advanced technology on the planet which allowed them to create a drone army, advanced ships and advanced communication (they were monitoring Yorktown and allowed Uhura to send a "fake" distress signal) and with 100 years to work on it, never bothered to repair the Franklin or send a message.  Just seems odd to me.  As angry and bitter as Edison might have been, even irrationally so (it wasnt Starfleet's fault he was stranded), he had no way of knowing if the "weapon" would ever be found.  So his plan relied on things happening that not only were out of his control but rather unlikely.  He got lucky.

The final log Edison made was from the Franklin and he vowed revenge.  So he didnt have festering anger for 100 years.  He looked pretty much the same age as in the first log.  Now, I could say he was feeding on his own crew and it made him appear young.  But that's something not remotely established in the film.  It would appear Edison and crew abandoned the Franklin for some unknown reason.

Its possible a military soldier would go nuts.  But isnt it more likely a Starfleet captain who's mission is to explore the unknown frontier would look at that situation as an opportunity to do just that?  His blame and anger were misplaced in an irrational way.

If it was me looking at the script, I'd suggest cutting the whole vampire thing.  If you need some sort of "horror" you could imply that the planet had little food (ie. no indigenous animal life) and little edible plants and so Edison and his crew cannibalized the dead and weak over the years.  I would have made Krall human and the descendent of Edison.  So as time passed, Krall would have been influenced only by what the elders told him, not by his personal experiences with Starfleet.  So he ends up hating the Federation. 

On the same hand, I'd have made Jaylah a descendent of the Franklin crew as well.  It would have made her journey more emotional, her connection to the Frankin as "home" more meaningful.  And at the end of the film, her decision to go party instead of seeking out her family or homeworld now that she's finally escaped wouldnt seem so odd.  Scotty presenting an opportunity to join Starfleet would mean more too...because unlike Krall, the stories she heard would have been positive ones about the Federation.  So I would have used Krall and Jaylah as opposite sides of the same coin so to speak.

[The Unknown Poster]

51 minutes ago, Brandon Blue&Gold said:

He's no Khan or General Chang, but Krall was more straightforward than Nero was, if nothing else. If they had a better reason for his extended life than "Blah I'm a space vampire!" he would be more compelling. And give Idris Elba (a damn fine actor) more to work with.

I didnt mind Nero as much because of the idea the complete destruction of his planet and the deaths of his entire race, then the time travel made him insane.  Plus he spent 30 years in a Klingon prison to stew about it.  Again, it means his crew went nuts too but at least they were also imprisoned.

The illogic in Nero's plan is that his entire motivation is blaming Spock, irrationally, for not saving Romulus.  But then he ends up back in time and not only can he save Romulus, but he has technology from the future with which to allow the Romulans to have a major military advantage over everyone else.  Because Romulans are long lived, its entirely possible that he still had family (Grandparents or even parents really) alive on Romulus at that moment.  And yet he gave not a second thought to it and went about his insane plan of revenge on everyone who really had nothing to do with his planet being destroyed anyway.

[Brandon Blue&Gold]

I'd say the main issue with Krall to his motives is just not near enough information or development to his backstory and so many questions unanswered. I wonder if this was a byproduct of Pegg having to take over the script late in the game. I'm still impressed how well he pulled it off overall, but perhaps this is a result of the issues they had with getting the script done. In the end Krall/Edison is a shell of what he could have been. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt on most of it.

Question on Jaylah. I thought the movie established that her family died on the planet thanks to Krall. So maybe she has no family left hence her choice to start a new life in Starfleet would make sense. No point in searching for a family or home if it doesn't exist.

[The Unknown Poster]

13 minutes ago, Brandon Blue&Gold said:

I'd say the main issue with Krall to his motives is just not near enough information or development to his backstory and so many questions unanswered. I wonder if this was a byproduct of Pegg having to take over the script late in the game. I'm still impressed how well he pulled it off overall, but perhaps this is a result of the issues they had with getting the script done. In the end Krall/Edison is a shell of what he could have been. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt on most of it.

Question on Jaylah. I thought the movie established that her family died on the planet thanks to Krall. So maybe she has no family left hence her choice to start a new life in Starfleet would make sense. No point in searching for a family or home if it doesn't exist.

Jaylah said her father was killed fighting one of Krall's henchmen while trying to escape.  So you're right, she might have no family.  But we can presume Krall forced her family/crew to crash on the planet which would imply they were either traveling in the family car or on a mission.  Either way, she'd still have a homeworld or potentially extended family.  I think they said she was just a small child when her father was killed so she might have little to no memory/knowledge of anything else.  Then again, where is her ship?

Pegg definitely had a short window so I can see that beign an issue especially with punching it up.  Interestingly, speculation has it the story for Trek 4 might be based on one of the rejected stories Bob Orci submitted for Trek 3 before he was canned.  He also made what seemed to be a sarcastic post on a fan board (before it was deleted) that several of his ideas were used in Beyond even though Pegg claimed the writing team was not allowed to view or know about the rejected stories.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Just saw it, the first 30 made up for pretty much all of ST:ID.

But yeah if you think about it, it's like ST09 or SW:TFA. Really good but if you think about it...